In a world without guns...the strong and the many can brutally beat the weak and outnumbered...

[RKMBrown]

So, there are people who wish there were no guns...anywhere, thinking that this would be a good thing. Of course, they are wrong. Guns allow the physically weaker, the individual vs. the many, the peaceful vs. the more aggressive have a chance at surviving a violent attack...this is one case of that...5 strong, athletic men, savagely beat one man when he stands up to them....over offensive remarks the 5 made about his girlfriend...

5 Division II Football Players Assault Man Leave Him Brain Damaged The Daily Caller

According to witnesses, 30-year old Lewis Campbell confronted the young men after one of them said something to his girlfriend. The football players waited for Campbell to leave Spuds before jumping him and repeatedly stomping on his head. Campbell quickly lost consciousness, and the five fled the scene, yelling, “Football strong!”

It is a good thing that no one involved had a gun...say...the man or his girlfriend...it is much better that the man be beaten and brain damaged....right?

Imagine what that brain dead group of thugs would have done to that couple if the thugs were armed. Armed thugs are more dangerous than unarmed thugs. Maybe the problem is thugs.. not guns or the weapons they use, be they boots or bullets.

 

[Saigon]

It's easy to be dispassionate about curtailing the rights of others when you have never been privileged to have those same rights.

Oh, we have far, far, far greater rights in Europe than you possibly ever will do in the US.

For instance, we have the right to go to work in saftey. The right to go to school in safety.

And these aren't empty claims - there is clear, obvious statistical proof that a European school is safer than an American one.

 

[Rotagilla]

a few citizens dropping "thugs" in their tracks when they attack sends a message to all "thugs".

 

[RKMBrown]

It's easy to be dispassionate about curtailing the rights of others when you have never been privileged to have those same rights.

Oh, we have far, far, far greater rights in Europe than you possibly ever will do in the US.

For instance, we have the right to go to work in saftey. The right to go to school in safety.

And these aren't empty claims - there is clear, obvious statistical proof that a European school is safer than an American one.

Ass hole. You are full of shit.

 

[RKMBrown]

a few citizens dropping "thugs" in their tracks when they attack sends a message to all "thugs".

Yeah it tell the thugs to wear body armor and buy more guns.

 

[Saigon]

Do the Germans,
French and British have the same an equivalent level of gangs as we do...with the same level of violent activity..keep in mind we also have,major,drug cartels right on our southern border...

I would guess that there are more gang members (per capita) in the US, agreed.

But as anyone who has evern been to a banlieue outside Paris will tell you, there are PLENTY of migrants and plenty of gangs in France. Ditto England and Germany.

So it becomes a queston of whether that can explain a murder rate TEN TIMES that of those countries - and I would say that it can't.

 

[2aguy]

Because saigon isn't American.

Indeed.

This may be the main reason why am able to look at the issue dispassionately where so many others are not.

(I have met many Amricans who CAN look at this issue objectively, but not too many are on this thread so far!!)

Yes..of course....you are SOOO advanced and above it all.... and humble too..
It must be quite a burden to be smarter than everyone else..

It's not being 'advanced' Rota.

My point is that outsiders can sometimes be more objective on an issue than people who live close to it.

It may well be that you would have a more objective take on some very sensitive Finnish issues than many Finns do.

Either way, there has to be a reason why some Americans would insist that the US simply cannot be compared to any other country in the world, despite all obvious evidence to the contrary

Raise your right hand if you support gun control

See, by extending the argument all the way back to the 1930s you will show that a disarmed European populatin leads,to far more gun murders than an armed one...the difference being that the gun murders and other murders are committed by the government...another fact that anti gunners fail to add into the equation when they compare gun crimes,between the U.S. And Europe....

 

[Saigon]

Ass hole. You are full of shit.

I'm glad to see logical arguments and strong statistics being presented.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's sad that humans have to act in a way that we must defend ourselves..

Agreed. As long as we have Progressive bend on controlling everyone and killing those that won't be controlled, we'll have to defend ourselves

 

[2aguy]

Still you fail to address the positive aspects of gun ownership...the 1.4 million times,each year American guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime....which is far more times than guns are used to murder people...

 

[2aguy]

Culture....

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Ass hole. You are full of shit.

I'm glad to see logical arguments and strong statistics being presented.

stats taken from this board might agree
RK's view on you.

 

[Saigon]

Still you fail to address the positive aspects of gun ownership...the 1.4 million times,each year American guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime....which is far more times than guns are used to murder people...

I'm ignoring it because I can't see that it has anything to do with the topic.

Yes, of course there are occasions when a gun will save a life - there is no question there.

But given the US has 138 times the gun-murder rate of the UK, it is also fairly clear that there are 138 occasions when it does the opposite.

In other words - it makes no sense to claim that gun saves lives, when countries with LESS guns have LESS murders.

 

[Truman123]

It's sad that humans have to act in a way that we must defend ourselves..

Humans have always acted that way and will always act that way

Sure. With that attitude.

 

[Rotagilla]

It's easy to be dispassionate about curtailing the rights of others when you have never been privileged to have those same rights.

Oh, we have far, far, far greater rights in Europe than you possibly ever will do in the US.

For instance, we have the right to go to work in saftey. The right to go to school in safety.

And these aren't empty claims - there is clear, obvious statistical proof that a European school is safer than an American one.

Do the Germans,
French and British have the same an equivalent level of gangs as we do...with the same level of violent activity..keep in mind we also have,major,drug cartels right on our southern border...

I would guess that there are more gang members (per capita) in the US, agreed.

But as anyone who has evern been to a banlieue outside Paris will tell you, there are PLENTY of migrants and plenty of gangs in France. Ditto England and Germany.

So it becomes a queston of whether that can explain a murder rate TEN TIMES that of those countries - and I would say that it can't.

The black murder rate ALONE exceeds some countries.

Hence the skewed data.
Break the murder rates down by demographics and a whole different picture of america is revealed...

 

[Saigon]

Time for another run at this chart from the Washington Post (not that it is a US source)...again, so far not one single poster has been able to stand to comment on it.

 

[2aguy]

European nations have made a trade off...they would rather that their populations accept criminal attack, quietly, stoically, wether it is a violent street robbery or home invasion, a rape or brutal beating or murder, than that the victims of such crimes fight back and prevent those crimes....Britain is far more violent than we are...and they are content to just allow the NHS minister to the victims....than allow those victims to defeat those criminals and stop the crimes...

As long as we are clear on that....

 

[2aguy]

Time to take another run at you addressing the 1.4 million times a gun is used to save lives and stop violent crimes in the U.S. Each year....vs. 11-12,000 times guns are used to murder people....

which number is higher...?

 

[Rotagilla]

Time for another run at this chart from the Washington Post (not that it is a US source)...again, so far not one single poster has been able to stand to comment on it.

another poster dismantled your chart and whole argument 8 or 9 pages ago..you keep circling back as if it never happened, though.

 

[2aguy]

The crime that lead to this thread happens in Europe as well...the difference....the victim has the choice about trying to do something to stop this one sided brutal attack...Europeans don't...they must stand by and wait in silence until the police arrive to take their report....