In light of the attacks in Paris...shall we discuss gun control?

[MikeK]

[...]

With rights come responsibilities, and it's the responsibility of gun owners who carry a concealed firearm to know the law and the limits concerning carrying a firearm, and to not act in an irresponsible manner predicated on a pathetic, unfounded, ridiculous fantasy.

I fully agree! Which is why I strongly advocate more liberal CCW laws with the requirement that anyone licensed to carry a concealed handgun pass a qualification test or receive training similar to that administered to police.

 

[longknife]

One does not expect armed security around or near an outdoor cafe. But one should expect armed security at a big concert like that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Because of dimwits like you...you obviously don't understand that armed civilians save lives...even in attacks like this....

The whole premise of having an entirely armed society for the purpose of public safety is obviously a really great idea, it should be more like the wild west.....because who can imagine Americans getting drunk and shooting each other for no good reason.

You really, really need to do some research...the "Wild West" is a movie myth.....the WEst in was fairly peaceful..why...because most people carried guns for self defense, which means they could stop violent attacks...please, try to do some actual research on the topic...it would make your posts far more meaningful...

You should do your research. There never was a peaceful time in this country.

I never said there was...I said the west wasn't that wild.....

John Wayne kept the wild-west under control, and now we have stifled the John Wayne's waiting, guns in hand, to tame America.

John Wayne kept the wild-west under control, and now we have stifled the John Wayne's waiting, guns in hand, to tame America.

 

[chikenwing]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

Nope not the right time,rather irelevent .what should be talked about,is how the rational world will do to cut this cancer out .using acts such as these for political leverage,here is rather loathsome.

 

[Timmy]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

 

[shadow355]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

Gun Control.....is shooting terrorists twice in the head .

Shadow 355

 

[kaz]

Well I'm all for people owning guns BUT I don't want to be at a rock concert with a bunch of hostile drunk headbangers packin heat.

who is arguing you can take guns on private property again without the consent of the owner?

 

[2aguy]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

Criminals in Europe get guns just as easily as these terrorists did......probably from the same supplier....I have posted articles by European police agencies talking about how easy it is for criminals to get guns...

In fact the week of the other recent mass shooting in France, the attack on the cartoonists...gang members in Marseilles used fully automatic rifles to shoot up a neighborhood just before the French Prime minister was going to go there to give a speech on crime.....they weren't terrorists, they were gang members...

 

[kaz]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

So terrorists can get guns, but criminals can't if you make them illegal? How does that work exactly.

So France has your no guns rules and people were shot down without being able to shoot back. Doesn't cut through the fog in your brain at all, does it?

 

[2aguy]

[...]

With rights come responsibilities, and it's the responsibility of gun owners who carry a concealed firearm to know the law and the limits concerning carrying a firearm, and to not act in an irresponsible manner predicated on a pathetic, unfounded, ridiculous fantasy.

I fully agree! Which is why I strongly advocate more liberal CCW laws with the requirement that anyone licensed to carry a concealed handgun pass a qualification test or receive training similar to that administered to police.

The problem...which you know because we have discussed it...is that Europe, in particular France, use training as a way to keep normal people from getting guns...they make the tests and requirements so hard and so expensive and time consuming that only the wealthy and politically connected can pass them.

 

[2aguy]

You're a loon. For there to be 1.5 million crimes stopped with a gun annually, there would have to be how many not stopped with a gun? 5, 10,50 times as many? Are you telling me there are 15-50 million crimes committed annually?

You need to get some new numbers. You present your data like a retard. You cherry pick what suites your goal without thought.
What is the change in crime rates since Clinton? Were there 13 mil cc under Clinton?

You have no credibility.

There are only 1.5 million violent crimes each year total.

Wrong...those are crimes actually completed and that are reported...far more happen than are reported...and many are stopped with guns and are never reported...use your brain...

Yes, there are untold millions of people disappearing every year from unreported murders and untold millions of unreported crimes but yet you have data on how many of those unreported crimes were stopped by guns. You truly are a loon or retarded or both.
And yes,I agree, you should use your brain.

those studies are by actual, respected researchers in the fields of criminology and economics...over a 40 year period.....many of them anti gun researchers who support extreme gun control...like the two researchers who do the Clinton Department of Justice study.......try to understand what you are posting on...

try to understand what you are posting on...

I agree.
I think you should read those studies more closely. You need to ask yourself if the number you present makes sense.

What percent of crime do you suppose is stopped by guns? Is it high? 20, 30,40%?
Doesn't seem likely.

So then it must be low, maybe 1-2%?
For there to be 1.5 million crimes stopped annually by guns at the 1% rate, there would have to be 150 million crimes committed annually. Does that make sense?



I suspect your forty year study concluded there were 1.5 million crimes stopped by guns over that entire period. Let's not forget though that the rate of crime is far lower now than at any time during that forty year period studied.

Nope..on average for a year....

 

[kaz]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

Criminals in Europe get guns just as easily as these terrorists did......probably from the same supplier....I have posted articles by European police agencies talking about how easy it is for criminals to get guns...

In fact the week of the other recent mass shooting in France, the attack on the cartoonists...gang members in Marseilles used fully automatic rifles to shoot up a neighborhood just before the French Prime minister was going to go there to give a speech on crime.....they weren't terrorists, they were gang members...

I'm in Amsterdam now, I work over here most of the time. Actually, it's well known that to buy a gun you have to be a terrorist. There are signs on gun shops all over the city. You have to prove you are a terrorist to buy one. If you're Muslim they consider that proof enough.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong...those are crimes actually completed and that are reported...far more happen than are reported...and many are stopped with guns and are never reported...use your brain...

Yes, there are untold millions of people disappearing every year from unreported murders and untold millions of unreported crimes but yet you have data on how many of those unreported crimes were stopped by guns. You truly are a loon or retarded or both.
And yes,I agree, you should use your brain.

those studies are by actual, respected researchers in the fields of criminology and economics...over a 40 year period.....many of them anti gun researchers who support extreme gun control...like the two researchers who do the Clinton Department of Justice study.......try to understand what you are posting on...

If they are such great researchers why do they arrive at such drastically different numbers? It's can't be 700k and 3.6 million? Quite the range for accurate research.

Yep...and look at how many are well over 1 million times a year......so many studies and so much research and they all prove you wrong.......

And you conveniently leave off any studies with low numbers... So honest.

Nope....the National Crime Victimization Survey is left off because it is not a study on gun self defense....the others are specifically gun self defense studies...

 

[shadow355]

Drugs are illegal. Drugs and drug related crimes kill people everyday .

Cities and countries that have a strict gun control policy have severe crime, and significant crimes involving assault , murder and malicious wounding.

It is not a gun control problem, it is a criminal element and terror problem.

Shadow 355

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

Criminals in Europe get guns just as easily as these terrorists did......probably from the same supplier....I have posted articles by European police agencies talking about how easy it is for criminals to get guns...

In fact the week of the other recent mass shooting in France, the attack on the cartoonists...gang members in Marseilles used fully automatic rifles to shoot up a neighborhood just before the French Prime minister was going to go there to give a speech on crime.....they weren't terrorists, they were gang members...

I'm in Amsterdam now, I work over here most of the time. Actually, it's well known that to buy a gun you have to be a terrorist. There are signs on gun shops all over the city. You have to prove you are a terrorist to buy one. If you're Muslim they consider that proof enough.

So do the Dutch celebrate Theo van Gogh's murder, too?

 

[kaz]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

Criminals in Europe get guns just as easily as these terrorists did......probably from the same supplier....I have posted articles by European police agencies talking about how easy it is for criminals to get guns...

In fact the week of the other recent mass shooting in France, the attack on the cartoonists...gang members in Marseilles used fully automatic rifles to shoot up a neighborhood just before the French Prime minister was going to go there to give a speech on crime.....they weren't terrorists, they were gang members...

I'm in Amsterdam now, I work over here most of the time. Actually, it's well known that to buy a gun you have to be a terrorist. There are signs on gun shops all over the city. You have to prove you are a terrorist to buy one. If you're Muslim they consider that proof enough.

So do the Dutch celebrate Theo van Gogh's murder, too?

guns are illegal here too, Holmes. Didn't think that one through, did you?

You and your buds doing 129 high fives for each of the dead in a country that already has the laws you want enacted in the US?

How did it happen? I thought you said making them illegal would fix this?

 

[2aguy]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

Criminals in Europe get guns just as easily as these terrorists did......probably from the same supplier....I have posted articles by European police agencies talking about how easy it is for criminals to get guns...

In fact the week of the other recent mass shooting in France, the attack on the cartoonists...gang members in Marseilles used fully automatic rifles to shoot up a neighborhood just before the French Prime minister was going to go there to give a speech on crime.....they weren't terrorists, they were gang members...

I'm in Amsterdam now, I work over here most of the time. Actually, it's well known that to buy a gun you have to be a terrorist. There are signs on gun shops all over the city. You have to prove you are a terrorist to buy one. If you're Muslim they consider that proof enough.

So do the Dutch celebrate Theo van Gogh's murder, too?

The muslims do......

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

How about we wait until they finish mopping up the blood of those pretty French girls and boys first before making politics of it?

 

[kaz]

You make it seem like these were local punks who picked up a gun to go rob people. This is an international terrorist organization ! So enough of this "criminals can still get guns " bullshit .

Criminals in Europe get guns just as easily as these terrorists did......probably from the same supplier....I have posted articles by European police agencies talking about how easy it is for criminals to get guns...

In fact the week of the other recent mass shooting in France, the attack on the cartoonists...gang members in Marseilles used fully automatic rifles to shoot up a neighborhood just before the French Prime minister was going to go there to give a speech on crime.....they weren't terrorists, they were gang members...

I'm in Amsterdam now, I work over here most of the time. Actually, it's well known that to buy a gun you have to be a terrorist. There are signs on gun shops all over the city. You have to prove you are a terrorist to buy one. If you're Muslim they consider that proof enough.

So do the Dutch celebrate Theo van Gogh's murder, too?

The muslims do......

The liberals are so stupid they can't process that cheering gun deaths in countries that ban them is counter to their argument, it doesn't support it. The more wrong liberals are, the smugger they are about it

 

[2aguy]

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

How about we wait until they finish mopping up the blood of those pretty French girls and boys first before making politics of it?

I am ready to discuss gun control on this issue when anyone is willing......

Did the extreme gun control laws of France, far stricter than those here in the United States, prevent any of these attackers from getting their guns? You cannot legally own guns in FRance outside of some hunting shotguns and they probably have to be kept in a gun club..and you have to go through tremendous hassles to get access to those guns....does anyone think these terrorists did that?

Will we find out that these terrorists were well known to the French government?

As I have been saying...guns are easy to get in Europe if you are a criminal or a terrorist...that they don't use them more is simply a choice, not because they lack access....as these attacks show.

And in Europe..their criminals and terrorists prefer fully automatic rifles......as well as grenades....

Gun control worked incredibly well in France....not one of the victims who was murdered tonight will have been armed and able to resist the attack....

But....But....they don't have the kind of mass shootings that we do in America...right? And what have I said in post after post.....the culture over there is changing and that they were importing criminals to commit the gun crime that European criminals won't do...

And I would point out that armed French citizens could likely have reduced the ability of the attackers to kill the unarmed victims so easily.

Also...I have posted that the number of casualties in attacks in gun free societies will always be higher...because no one is armed, including many of the police forces...which means the time it takes for their special operations police...you know..the ones with guns...takes far longer to get into the fight...

These attacks show this to be true....

If you live in New York city...I would suggest watching yourself in public places and carry your concealed carry pistol if you haven't made a habit of it....oh....wait....that's right.....only those with the money to hire a lawyer can actually get a permit to carry a gun in New York city.....and of course the bodyguards of the political class......

I point out New York city because these nuts seem to focus on New York..but if you live in other big cities...Chicago, and L.A. I would keep your eyes open......

How about we wait until they finish mopping up the blood of those pretty French girls and boys first before making politics of it?

Tell that to Everytown and Mayor bloomberg and CNN.......and throw in obama for good measure.....