Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Delta4Embassy]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

This question resulted in a long-time rabbi friend not talking to me for over a year.

Mine was about the Garden and punishing Adam and Eve for disobediance where I reasoned:

'why create a tree of knowledge of good and evil only to forbid people in the garden eating it? Isn't God just punishing them for something he forsaw occuring in the first place? In modern parlance that'd be akin to entrapment. You can't obtain a search warrant for someone on the ground they possess contraband if you just sold the contraband to them. Conversely, shouldn't be punishing your creations for disobeying you eating from the tree you put in their home, to say nothing of the serpent you also put in their home. And since the serpent was right and God lied about dying if they eat from it it just demonstrates pretty conclusively God was behaving very irrationally from the beginning.'

No argument on that.

Strange that your Rabbi friend took the Christian view of a fall instead the of the original Jewish view of Eden being where man was elevated and not where man fell.

That is how Jews explain that they have no Original Sin concept.

The Original Meaning Of Original Sin

Tell your Rabbi not to be so Christian because his original Jewish theology was doing great until the day Christianity took it over and made it less than what it would have been today.

Regards
DL

Ya that'll put me back in good with him.

 

[GreatestIam]

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan.

false conclusion....God having knowledge and making use of our actions is not a compelling of our actions.......God's knowledge does not cause our act......our action causes his knowledge......

So much for omnipotent and omnipresent and all knowing.

If God has to wait for us then he cannot preordain anything because what he might want to preordain might be impossible.

Jesus could have already been dead before God chose him or the murderer might not have been in the mood to kill that day.

Either way, if you think we can screw God's plans then why call him God?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

in the early days of computing we used to say garbage in, garbage out.....if you are starting with the assumption God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us, you can't expect to come to any correct conclusions.....

You seem to ignore your bible a lot.

Are you planning on being on the wide road to hell or the narrow path to heaven?

Or have you forgotten how your bible expresses how many are called but few reply?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Yet most are on the wide road to hell.

hint - stop and get off......

Why?

Hell must be better than the heaven that houses your genocidal son murdering prick. Remember how few Satan murders as compared to the one you follow.

Which do you think has the better morals and residence?

You don't care about morals right? You just care about power and your willing to sell your soul to be saved regardless of others or the fact that your same God condemned you.

Regards
DL

 

[Mudda]

Haile Selassie?

Was a emperor. What does that have to do with a god?

Geez, and here I was thinking that you knew everything? What a downer.

You thought Haile Selassie was a god? Are you an idiot or are you inebriated already?

No, but I will be soon!!!

I was giving you an option and you choose to agree you are an idiot?

You don't even know what Selassie is. Are you sure you're a darkie?

 

[GreatestIam]

]
God kills everyone in the end.

foolish.....God kills no one.....

You have certainly made up your own religion. I don't blame you. Christianity is not a worthy theology.

But tell us why your God created hell if he did not plan to kill?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

They became as Gods in the knowing of good and evil. So have I.

so you bought Satan's argument that the only difference between you and God was knowledge of good and evil?.......now that you know evil do you still think he was right or do you just want to fool us like Satan did with you?......

Fool me? Satan?
What Satan?

Your the one who believes in the supernatural so just who is fooling who and who is the fool here?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God created pedophiles, he has no morals.

no.....he didn't......

Who is God's co creator if he did not create all of us?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Disagree. God sets the standards so only god can say what he/she does is immoral.

What standards did your invisible white guy set?

I dont own any white guys visible or invisible. If you are looking for a blow up doll you are in the wrong thread.

So what moral standards did your god set?

the moral standards of Christianity are outlined in the Ten Commandments.....

Want to chat as to their morality?



Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

That is what happens when you we see that God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us while only saving the few.

in the early days of computing we used to say garbage in, garbage out.....if you are starting with the assumption God's plan is to destroy the vast majority of us, you can't expect to come to any correct conclusions.....

God kills everyone in the end.

more likely, you will kill everyone in the end......maniacal, illiterate posters are a high risk for mass murderers.......

I leave the killing and deformed babies to god.

well at least we know you don't work for Planned Parenthood......that sort love killing babies.....

I don't know about that statement being true but how do you compare that to your God torturing King David's baby for six days before finally killing it?

How about the innocent first born of Egypt or all the babies and children in Noah's day?

Has mankind reached the satanic level your God lives on as yet?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

If not, why not?

Regards
DL

This question resulted in a long-time rabbi friend not talking to me for over a year.

Mine was about the Garden and punishing Adam and Eve for disobediance where I reasoned:

'why create a tree of knowledge of good and evil only to forbid people in the garden eating it? Isn't God just punishing them for something he forsaw occuring in the first place? In modern parlance that'd be akin to entrapment. You can't obtain a search warrant for someone on the ground they possess contraband if you just sold the contraband to them. Conversely, shouldn't be punishing your creations for disobeying you eating from the tree you put in their home, to say nothing of the serpent you also put in their home. And since the serpent was right and God lied about dying if they eat from it it just demonstrates pretty conclusively God was behaving very irrationally from the beginning.'

No argument on that.

Strange that your Rabbi friend took the Christian view of a fall instead the of the original Jewish view of Eden being where man was elevated and not where man fell.

That is how Jews explain that they have no Original Sin concept.

The Original Meaning Of Original Sin

Tell your Rabbi not to be so Christian because his original Jewish theology was doing great until the day Christianity took it over and made it less than what it would have been today.

Regards
DL

Ya that'll put me back in good with him.

That, like some here who refuse good advice, will depend on how much he has invested into his belief.

You can tell the older guys here who refuse logic and reason, not because it is wrong, but because they have spent too may years believing in garbage and they do not ever want to admit that.

They prefer to continue to live a lie to save face. They do not fear God. They fear shame at their own stupidity.

Those people are not worth spit.

Regards
DL

 

[PostmodernProph]

God created the universe.....he did not create pedophiles or mindless internet trolls.....I have no idea if you are the former, but you are certainly the latter.......

So if god created the universe, he created everything in it, like pedophiles. Thanks.

I'm not sure if you were born yesterday, but if you were, he didn't create you......your parents did.....unless you are a test tube baby in which case some creepy lab assistant created you........

Maybe you should go and ask someone who has a clue about the bible.

I've already corrected your errors.....I don't need any help......

So who created pedophiles and gays?

have they not made their own choices?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

How about the innocent first born of Egypt or all the babies and children in Noah's day?

Has mankind reached the satanic level your God lives on as yet?

well 60 million dead since Roe v Wade......I would say they have an outstanding leadl.........

 

[PostmodernProph]

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan.

false conclusion....God having knowledge and making use of our actions is not a compelling of our actions.......God's knowledge does not cause our act......our action causes his knowledge......

So much for omnipotent and omnipresent and all knowing.

If God has to wait for us then he cannot preordain anything because what he might want to preordain might be impossible.

Jesus could have already been dead before God chose him or the murderer might not have been in the mood to kill that day.

Either way, if you think we can screw God's plans then why call him God?

obviously, like many other things you have not devoted a lot of thought to this issue.....the fact God is omniscient does not negate omnipotence or omnipresence......and obviously doesn't negate "all knowing"...../chortle.....
the fact you think God needs to "wait for us" to preordain demonstrates you don't have a clue what it actually means......

finally, how do you propose to screw God's plans when he knows what you are going to do before you even think of doing it?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Want to chat as to their morality?

chat?.....no......I am willing to correct your errors however.....I assume they are legion.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

You seem to ignore your bible a lot.

Are you planning on being on the wide road to hell or the narrow path to heaven?

Or have you forgotten how your bible expresses how many are called but few reply?

obviously that hasn't stopped you.......you haven't been called but you're still replying.......I'm prepared to match my knowledge of the Bible against your ignorance any time.....the narrow path to heaven isn't that hard to find or difficult to navigate......you simply need to keep your mind open and your mouth shut.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Why?

Hell must be better than the heaven that houses your genocidal son murdering prick. Remember how few Satan murders as compared to the one you follow.

Which do you think has the better morals and residence?

You don't care about morals right? You just care about power and your willing to sell your soul to be saved regardless of others or the fact that your same God condemned you.

I've met your type before....."I would rather rule in hell than be a slave in heaven"......what you overlook is that you're more likely to be Satan's dildo in his right hand, than Satan's right hand......

 

[PostmodernProph]

God created pedophiles, he has no morals.

no.....he didn't......

Who is God's co creator if he did not create all of us?

this may come as a shock to you but for the last hundred years or so the vast majority of human beings have been born in hospitals........

 

[Mudda]

So if god created the universe, he created everything in it, like pedophiles. Thanks.

I'm not sure if you were born yesterday, but if you were, he didn't create you......your parents did.....unless you are a test tube baby in which case some creepy lab assistant created you........

Maybe you should go and ask someone who has a clue about the bible.

I've already corrected your errors.....I don't need any help......

So who created pedophiles and gays?

have they not made their own choices?.....

Oh, you're one of those gay-is-a-choice people. And I bet that deep down you know that it's not true. You just like to fuck with people.

 

[Mudda]

How about the innocent first born of Egypt or all the babies and children in Noah's day?

Has mankind reached the satanic level your God lives on as yet?

well 60 million dead since Roe v Wade......I would say they have an outstanding leadl.........

God's killed every person that ever lived. A lot of them very gruesome deaths.