Is religion really so bad?

[Avatar4321]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

 

[Taz]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

So you think that you can improve on the work of god?

 

[Avatar4321]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

So you think that you can improve on the work of god?

I think with God all things are possible. He has commanded us to repent and come to Him. He wants us to put off our fallen nature and be born again and partake of the Divinity He offers us

 

[Disir]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Not necessarily. In many instances it can have the opposite effect. I can think of three examples right off the top of my head.

When we talk about people who keep one foot in the grave, we are talking about people who accept and even relish their misery, with the belief they will have a complete win when they die. It makes it very easy to control and manipulate people politically as well as prohibits accepting responsibility. It's called the martyr complex.

Two, there are churches where self-improvement may be the goal but what is really happening is the members of the congregation are the ones dictating what constitutes self-improvement under the guise of God. At its very best congregations can be a great support system where members genuinely care about each other and hold each other accountable respectfully to following their own path. At its very worst, individuals are surrounded by frenemies and an individual is held accountable by an ever changing external process dictated by the power of gossip. It's not about self-improvement or growth.

Third, there is the belief that an individual can do or say whatever they want and by the mere power of baptism or being born again then all is forgiven. Rather than accept responsibility for one's actions and using that to fuel self-improvement it fosters avoidance and can become really manipulative really quick.

 

[OnePercenter]

To hear some people you'd think so...or you'd think SOME is...but that would be looking at it only one part of it.

I do think religion helps us to think of a higher purpose, to think outside of ourselves and our immediate needs, to think of others. And that is a good thing. I'm not big into "salvation" as a formal concept...and I am firm believer that we create our own heaven and hell through our actions on earth.

As long as it is not in the public sphere, does it matter? The vast majority of people I encounter are not the movers and shakers in any religion. They are ordinary people that do what they can to get by. There are pastors that are out there that do what many refuse to do as far as taking care of people thrown away by society. They walk the talk.

Life is difficult enough and if it brings people piece of mind then it's a good thing. I am not about to make an argument with a 70 year old facing their own mortality, watching their loved ones pass away while society keeps trying to write them off. At some point that argument becomes cruel.

Or one can put their big-boy pants on.

Look guy, I'm an atheist, my parents are atheists, my son is an atheist and it really isn't what you say you are. It's what you do.

I'm an agnostic.

 

[Disir]

To hear some people you'd think so...or you'd think SOME is...but that would be looking at it only one part of it.

I do think religion helps us to think of a higher purpose, to think outside of ourselves and our immediate needs, to think of others. And that is a good thing. I'm not big into "salvation" as a formal concept...and I am firm believer that we create our own heaven and hell through our actions on earth.

As long as it is not in the public sphere, does it matter? The vast majority of people I encounter are not the movers and shakers in any religion. They are ordinary people that do what they can to get by. There are pastors that are out there that do what many refuse to do as far as taking care of people thrown away by society. They walk the talk.

Life is difficult enough and if it brings people piece of mind then it's a good thing. I am not about to make an argument with a 70 year old facing their own mortality, watching their loved ones pass away while society keeps trying to write them off. At some point that argument becomes cruel.

Or one can put their big-boy pants on.

Look guy, I'm an atheist, my parents are atheists, my son is an atheist and it really isn't what you say you are. It's what you do.

I'm an agnostic.

Ok.

 

[OnePercenter]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

 

[Syriusly]

To hear some people you'd think so...or you'd think SOME is...but that would be looking at it only one part of it.

I do think religion helps us to think of a higher purpose, to think outside of ourselves and our immediate needs, to think of others. And that is a good thing. I'm not big into "salvation" as a formal concept...and I am firm believer that we create our own heaven and hell through our actions on earth.

I'm listening to music, the true voice of the sacred. Cat Stevens...Yusuf Islam is one. What he says makes sense and echos all the world's great faiths:

Ten Promises To Peace

Ten Promises To Peace


What has happened to the Muslim Community since the Prophet Muhammad’s passing (peace be upon him) is anything but the message of unity, love and peace he delivered. Not entirely their fault because those who prosper by dividing mankind into collective groups, those who draw lines between people and families and then make deals with violent would-be-lords, presidents and dictators, must shoulder much of the blame also.


After entering Islam through the study of the Qur’an, what shocked me was how little people knew or wanted to know about the commonalities shared between Islam and other Faiths. The partial reason for this is the ‘Blame Game’; everybody accusing the ‘others’ for the terrible condition of the world: Afghanistan, Palestine, Bosnia, Iraq, all burning flames of hatred. Whereas the fundamental message of the Prophet, calling for understanding, prayer and charity under God, is totally lost in the gun smoke and fury of the explosive wars that continue to fog many people’s understanding of Islam. Following my conversion, I realised the real battle front was ignorance and mutual antagonism, was left unattended.


After many years, and millions of fatalities the world is still a very dangerous place, and continuously in conflict. So what can we do? Well, I think we can all promise to try and make it better by following the things we all say believe in.


Lessons from the Ten Commandments


Some people perceive believers in a Divine Code of life as unfashionable and unrealistic. But these people have left the safety of God’s palace of peace, and chosen to pitch their tents outside. That’s their choice, and choice is part of the license God has given every human being. However, when laws are broken and if people commit crimes and cross the lines, you can’t blame God for what happens next. Law and Order are primary requisites that God has provided humanity to maintain peace within the palace.


One of the most important objectives of all religion is teaching people how to live together. The lessons I learnt as a school child, the Ten Commandments, are not even referred to or looked at anymore. Yet these were the rules laid down by our Creator, for the benefit and betterment of all mankind. Why are they so easily overlooked?


When we hear that over four fifths of the world’s population believe or have a faith, why are we not profiting from things we already hold as valuable and right. In Islam, the ‘Ten’ are repeated in the Qur’an and other sacred Books in so many verses and chapters. This is a plus! What is missing is commitment.


People have put their nationality and customs above the commitment to abide by a Divine template of universal rights and responsibilities.


Even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. It goes on to describe in detail what those rights are.


So what happens? Why do some of us look down at others, and consider their lives less than equal with our own? When a person kills another from the same race and society, it’s called murder. When someone kills someone from another country it’s war. It’s a complicated subject and cannot be dealt with in this short talk, but we can realize the basis of the problem if we revisit God’s commands.​

Rest of the article at link.

And..for Christianity? What could be better expressed then in Connie Dover's Ubi Caritas.....my heart and soul



WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
Christ's love has gathered us into one.
Let us rejoice and be pleased in Him.
Let us fear, and let us love the living God.
And may we love each other with a sincere heart.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
As we are gathered into one body,
Beware, lest we be divided in mind.
Let evil impulses stop, let controversy cease,
And may Christ our God be in our midst.

WHERE charity and love are, God is there.
And may we with the saints also,
See Thy face in glory, O Christ our God:
The joy that is immense and good,
Unto the ages through infinite ages. Amen.

Actually as an atheist- I am not specifically against religion- even as I am against some of the actions, and policies of some organized religions.

But as long as people don't push their religion on me too hard, I am fine with their religion.

Frankly, I can see how religion provides comfort for many people- it just isn't for me.

 

[task0778]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

No, religion does not require an offering, that is a lie. You don't even have to show up in a church somewhere.

 

[Taz]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

So you think that you can improve on the work of god?

I think with God all things are possible. He has commanded us to repent and come to Him. He wants us to put off our fallen nature and be born again and partake of the Divinity He offers us

No, men have written that. God, not so much.

 

[LittleNipper]

I wrote 'spiritual apprehension,' The whack-a-doodles that believe that earthquakes are the vengeance of God for not believing.

Yeah, but religion is also about living a better life, exercising the qualities of mercy and selflessness and helping your fellow person in times of difficulty. But here's the thing: whatever works for them is for them to decide, not you. You might think it's all hogwash, but for many it is comforting to believe that loved ones who have passed away will still be around when you're gone too. It's not a bad thing to have others to lean on when you need someone who believes as you do. Not everyone is strong enough to go it alone without a God to pray to and ask for guidance. It may be nothing more than a mental placebo, but the mind can sometimes do positive things that modern medicine cannot.

They didn't write the Bible --- and why the Reformation came about. The fools are the ones who refuse to read the Bible for themselves or simply ignore it

The snake oil salesmen wrote the bible.

Have you ever honestly read the entire Bible. A snake oil salesman couldn't be bothered and certainly wouldn't be smart enough.

In fairly recent (comparable) years, L Ron Hubbard and John Smith Jr.

I can start a religion and offer a $1M non-transferable guarantee of ever lasting life. How many takers (faith over reason) do you think I'd receive?

Only Jesus offers eternal life and that will not cost anybody one penny.

 

[dblack]

Only Jesus offers eternal life and that will not cost anybody one penny.

His distributors, on the other hand, make you pay through the nose. Always with the middlemen.

 

[OnePercenter]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

No, religion does not require an offering, that is a lie. You don't even have to show up in a church somewhere.

You've never heard of Mormonism?

If you don't go to church, why would you be a member of the church?

 

[OnePercenter]

Yeah, but religion is also about living a better life, exercising the qualities of mercy and selflessness and helping your fellow person in times of difficulty. But here's the thing: whatever works for them is for them to decide, not you. You might think it's all hogwash, but for many it is comforting to believe that loved ones who have passed away will still be around when you're gone too. It's not a bad thing to have others to lean on when you need someone who believes as you do. Not everyone is strong enough to go it alone without a God to pray to and ask for guidance. It may be nothing more than a mental placebo, but the mind can sometimes do positive things that modern medicine cannot.

They didn't write the Bible --- and why the Reformation came about. The fools are the ones who refuse to read the Bible for themselves or simply ignore it

The snake oil salesmen wrote the bible.

Have you ever honestly read the entire Bible. A snake oil salesman couldn't be bothered and certainly wouldn't be smart enough.

In fairly recent (comparable) years, L Ron Hubbard and John Smith Jr.

I can start a religion and offer a $1M non-transferable guarantee of ever lasting life. How many takers (faith over reason) do you think I'd receive?

Only Jesus offers eternal life and that will not cost anybody one penny.

Jesus offers a $1M non-transferable guarantee?

 

[LittleNipper]

Only Jesus offers eternal life and that will not cost anybody one penny.

His distributors, on the other hand, make you pay through the nose. Always with the middlemen.

Nonsense. The Holy Ghost is the ONLY distributor. There is no charge to pray. If you need the stain glass windows and candles, YEAH! "Ambiance" is going to cost you, but that's you own fault.

 

[task0778]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

No, religion does not require an offering, that is a lie. You don't even have to show up in a church somewhere.

You've never heard of Mormonism?

If you don't go to church, why would you be a member of the church?

One religion does not equate or represent all religions. See, this is what you do, take one small example and paint every other organization as though they're all the same. That is lazy thinking and it's wrong. And intellectually dishonest.

Some people aren't physically able to go anywhere, even to church services. Others have no money; news flash: people with no money are not denied membership in a religion. I know you hate religion, but you oughta at least be accurate in what you are bitching about.

 

[OnePercenter]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

No, religion does not require an offering, that is a lie. You don't even have to show up in a church somewhere.

You've never heard of Mormonism?

If you don't go to church, why would you be a member of the church?

One religion does not equate or represent all religions. See, this is what you do, take one small example and paint every other organization as though they're all the same. That is lazy thinking and it's wrong. And intellectually dishonest.

Some people aren't physically able to go anywhere, even to church services. Others have no money; news flash: people with no money are not denied membership in a religion. I know you hate religion, but you oughta at least be accurate in what you are bitching about.

To believe that religious organizations collectively bilk $68B/yr from their parishioners isn't racketeering is
intellectually dishonest.

 

[task0778]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

No, religion does not require an offering, that is a lie. You don't even have to show up in a church somewhere.

You've never heard of Mormonism?

If you don't go to church, why would you be a member of the church?

One religion does not equate or represent all religions. See, this is what you do, take one small example and paint every other organization as though they're all the same. That is lazy thinking and it's wrong. And intellectually dishonest.

Some people aren't physically able to go anywhere, even to church services. Others have no money; news flash: people with no money are not denied membership in a religion. I know you hate religion, but you oughta at least be accurate in what you are bitching about.

To believe that religious organizations collectively bilk $68B/yr from their parishioners isn't racketeering is
intellectually dishonest.

Racketeering is an illegal act, there is nothing illegal about any church asking for donations. No one is forced to give, you can get up and walk out any time you want to and that includes the Mormons. Again, you lie.

 

[LittleNipper]

Religion requires self improvement. Some people don't want to put in the effort

Religion requires you make an offering. FYI: That's $68B/yr in the US alone.

No, religion does not require an offering, that is a lie. You don't even have to show up in a church somewhere.

You've never heard of Mormonism?

If you don't go to church, why would you be a member of the church?

One religion does not equate or represent all religions. See, this is what you do, take one small example and paint every other organization as though they're all the same. That is lazy thinking and it's wrong. And intellectually dishonest.

Some people aren't physically able to go anywhere, even to church services. Others have no money; news flash: people with no money are not denied membership in a religion. I know you hate religion, but you oughta at least be accurate in what you are bitching about.

To believe that religious organizations collectively bilk $68B/yr from their parishioners isn't racketeering is
intellectually dishonest.

Last year, Americans spent $10.7 trillion shopping. I wonder how much of that was for new Tattoos? I reckon $68B now sort of pales in comparison. And with all due respect, many churches collect for the needy and run schools and orphanages --- take care of widows. A pastor certainly deserves some sort of compensation, sanctuaries need to to heated, lighted and maintained. And then there is missionary work abroad and in urban areas. Sort of makes all those tattoos, jewelry, drinks, and concert tickets seem like total frivolity.

 

[Wry Catcher]

All the positive aspects and attributes ushered forth through ones religious faith can likewise be done without believing in lies and falsehoods. Though to do so, without belief of an eternal reward requires more courage, and conviction...

Yes...I think I agree. One doesn't have to be religious to be good.

But there is something about religion, the mysticism, the search for god and meaning that is important.

There is in my mind a vast difference between religion and religious organizations. The former is internal, reflective and honest; for the most part, the latter is very little different than a political party.