Islam. The religion of peace, tolerance and truth?

[Hollie]

Actually, you appear incensed that anyone would point out that Muhammud (swish) stole entire parts of the core elements of judaism and Christianity in the manufacture of his invented politico-religious ideology.

Actually, not at all.

Actually, the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish) co-opted entire portions of both judaism and Christianity to include the historical religious characters of those earlier religions.

Well duh, what do you think Christianity did? Mormanism? How many devils, angels and characters of all 3 were plucked from earlier politheistic religions to occupy new pantheons?

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

 

[Lipush]

"Islam" has not declared war on the U.S.

Certain people- who claim to be Muslim, and may even legitimately believe they are Muslim, and have used Islam to rally people to their own cause- have declared war.

​

According to Islam, it's an obligation to be Muslims first, then be Americans, and that's the true danger. Once they start believe all the bullshit ISIS feeds them day and night, you will have a big problem.

Islamic FAQ - Islam

Q17: Do Muslims have loyalty to their faith before the country they live in? (Back to Top)

Islam does not draw any distinction between loyalty to one's faith and nation. Muslims who enjoy the liberty to practice and preach their faith are required to honour the government of their country, and to live as decent, law-abiding citizens.


For the first thirteen years of his ministry, Prophet Muhammad(saw) and his followers were persecuted citizens in Makkah, yet within that period they never raised arms against their oppressors as they were still able to fulfill certain religious duties.


Prophet Muhammad(saw) is reported to have said:


‘Love for one's country is part of faith’ (Sakhavi)


Muslims are therefore required to live by this noble teaching and remain loyal to their country. [see also ‘What is Islam’s view on obedience to the law of the land?’]​

Yeah, I've seen that being perfectly practiced arround me

Sorry, but what they say is different from what they do, and It's permitted to lie to non-Muslims if its for the benefit of Islam, as well. So excuse me for not gasping in wonder of those so called "evidence" you bring here.

 

[Lipush]

Most religions have an "out" where by the worshipper can't be forced to follow a law that forces them to go against the ethics of their faith. Interesting that you point out taqiyya - are you aware that both Judaism and Christianity have their own "taqiyya" where it's permissable to lie, including in Christianity, lying in order to spread the faith?

Where does it say in Judaism that? Judaism is not missionary, so it doesn't make much sense.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, not at all.

Actually, the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish) co-opted entire portions of both judaism and Christianity to include the historical religious characters of those earlier religions.

Well duh, what do you think Christianity did? Mormanism? How many devils, angels and characters of all 3 were plucked from earlier politheistic religions to occupy new pantheons?

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

 

[Coyote]

Most religions have an "out" where by the worshipper can't be forced to follow a law that forces them to go against the ethics of their faith. Interesting that you point out taqiyya - are you aware that both Judaism and Christianity have their own "taqiyya" where it's permissable to lie, including in Christianity, lying in order to spread the faith?

Where does it say in Judaism that? Judaism is not missionary, so it doesn't make much sense.

I was talking about Christianity when it comes to lying in order to convert.

 

[Coyote]

"Islam" has not declared war on the U.S.

Certain people- who claim to be Muslim, and may even legitimately believe they are Muslim, and have used Islam to rally people to their own cause- have declared war.

​

According to Islam, it's an obligation to be Muslims first, then be Americans, and that's the true danger. Once they start believe all the bullshit ISIS feeds them day and night, you will have a big problem.

Islamic FAQ - Islam

Q17: Do Muslims have loyalty to their faith before the country they live in? (Back to Top)

Islam does not draw any distinction between loyalty to one's faith and nation. Muslims who enjoy the liberty to practice and preach their faith are required to honour the government of their country, and to live as decent, law-abiding citizens.


For the first thirteen years of his ministry, Prophet Muhammad(saw) and his followers were persecuted citizens in Makkah, yet within that period they never raised arms against their oppressors as they were still able to fulfill certain religious duties.


Prophet Muhammad(saw) is reported to have said:


‘Love for one's country is part of faith’ (Sakhavi)


Muslims are therefore required to live by this noble teaching and remain loyal to their country. [see also ‘What is Islam’s view on obedience to the law of the land?’]​

Yeah, I've seen that being perfectly practiced arround me

Sorry, but what they say is different from what they do, and It's permitted to lie to non-Muslims if its for the benefit of Islam, as well. So excuse me for not gasping in wonder of those so called "evidence" you bring here.

You're entitled to your opinion even if you don't support it with anything. You made a claim - I provided an Islamic source that stated what Islam says about the law of the law of the land. That doesn't mean individuals always obey.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish) co-opted entire portions of both judaism and Christianity to include the historical religious characters of those earlier religions.

Well duh, what do you think Christianity did? Mormanism? How many devils, angels and characters of all 3 were plucked from earlier politheistic religions to occupy new pantheons?

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?


Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to do?

Decisions, decisions.

 

[irosie91]

If there is a god, he knows us. Islam was stolen from Judaism .

That's just like saying that Christianity was "stolen from Judaism".

​

And Judaism was stolen from even older faiths. Most religions contain elements of older religions within them and certain memes are common to many such as birth/death/rebirth/salvation and the Golden Rule.

nothing like vague little platitudes to divert the issue. ----
so true HUMAN MEMES IS HUMAN MEMES------
Freud lived on the reality of HUMAN MEMES IS
HUMAN MEMES. and TRITE IS TRITE

to be more accurate-----and logical---Christianity is something like a breakoff sect ------which does include---lots of
very characteristically jewish memes but also some
from Greek, roman and egpytian memes. Islam
is not a breakoff sect of Judaism-----it has it's own
memes---the kind that lead to that which occurred
France last week------but it did graft itself onto Judaism
by a silly claim of kinship-----what else could the rapist
do------he had no "Arabian" scriptures ----all he had
were the memes of barbarity

 

[sealybobo]

This video was already posted somewhere else on this site, but who can keep track? I thought I would open a discussion based on it alone.

I'm not even going to talk about the 'peace' of Islam. 'Tolerance' as shown in this video is a one way street.



A religion of Truth? Come to think of it, I do not think anyone has made that claim; something this video affirms.

Let the debate begin.

All religions are made up and all of them claim to be good when so much bad comes out of them. We can debate and discuss how much good your church or you have done in the name of your god(s) but it is totally unnecessary and religion is one of the major ways "authority" keeps us citizens in check. Yes they control us with religion. They also use theater and bread of course.

And if you aren't buying their religions, they're dumbing you down with Kim Kardashian. Suckers.

 

[sealybobo]

Well duh, what do you think Christianity did? Mormanism? How many devils, angels and characters of all 3 were plucked from earlier politheistic religions to occupy new pantheons?

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?


Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to do?

Decisions, decisions.

I ask my Iranian buddy if they have alcohol in Iran. He says you can get ANYTHING you want. Heroin, Hash, Booze. They just don't have bars where you can go buy booze. But the Muslim world is full of sin just like the West. The government really doesn't care as long as you don't talk political. I always assumed they were all walking around with full burkas and head scarves and the women were second class citizens. The Iranian people are very modern. I think Islam is losing its grip just like Christianity is in the West.

 

[irosie91]

"Islam" has not declared war on the U.S.

Certain people- who claim to be Muslim, and may even legitimately believe they are Muslim, and have used Islam to rally people to their own cause- have declared war.

​

According to Islam, it's an obligation to be Muslims first, then be Americans, and that's the true danger. Once they start believe all the bullshit ISIS feeds them day and night, you will have a big problem.

Islamic FAQ - Islam

Q17: Do Muslims have loyalty to their faith before the country they live in? (Back to Top)

Islam does not draw any distinction between loyalty to one's faith and nation. Muslims who enjoy the liberty to practice and preach their faith are required to honour the government of their country, and to live as decent, law-abiding citizens.


For the first thirteen years of his ministry, Prophet Muhammad(saw) and his followers were persecuted citizens in Makkah, yet within that period they never raised arms against their oppressors as they were still able to fulfill certain religious duties.


Prophet Muhammad(saw) is reported to have said:


‘Love for one's country is part of faith’ (Sakhavi)


Muslims are therefore required to live by this noble teaching and remain loyal to their country. [see also ‘What is Islam’s view on obedience to the law of the land?’]​

Yeah, I've seen that being perfectly practiced arround me

Sorry, but what they say is different from what they do, and It's permitted to lie to non-Muslims if its for the benefit of Islam, as well. So excuse me for not gasping in wonder of those so called "evidence" you bring here.

You're entitled to your opinion even if you don't support it with anything. You made a claim - I provided an Islamic source that stated what Islam says about the law of the law of the land. That doesn't mean individuals always obey.

The view of Lipush is supported by history AND by shariah law. Rather than depend on a politic maudlin BS comment by a muslim apologist for filth------why not depend on reality? Muslims never rasised arms???? c'mon---
even the Koran itself notes that the pig of mecca made his
war chest by robbing caravans and even grabbing people
to sell as slaves-------he did it all without so much as a knife?
How MAGICAL !!!!! According to REAL SHARIAH SHIT---
any land upon which muslims defecate, murder, pillage and
enslave becomes MUSLIM LAND FOREVER-----remember Osama ? VOW TO REPAIR THE TRAGEDY OF
ANDALUSIA (for those who do not know---that
means grab Spain (and Portugal) ) How did the muslims get their bloody paws on Hebron? Hebron was the first capital of Israel----

 

[irosie91]

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?


Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to do?

Decisions, decisions.

I ask my Iranian buddy if they have alcohol in Iran. He says you can get ANYTHING you want. Heroin, Hash, Booze. They just don't have bars where you can go buy booze. But the Muslim world is full of sin just like the West. The government really doesn't care as long as you don't talk political. I always assumed they were all walking around with full burkas and head scarves and the women were second class citizens. The Iranian people are very modern. I think Islam is losing its grip just like Christianity is in the West.

Teheran muslims are very sophisticated. The first Iranians
I encountered in the USA -----were jews ------it was the mid
60s when the Iranian parents began to detect the stench of islam in the air and started shipping their teenaged kids OUT.
----very shortly thereafter I came into contact with Iranian muslims of the educated variety-----the educated muslims started leaving in the late 60s when they TOO ----began to
detect the stench of rising Islamism. How do I know?----it was the muslim Teheran Iranians who told me. As for being "religious"------well----the jews were kinda into traditional Judaism------but ask an Iranian muslim----"have you ever read the Koran"? those young docs were ready to diagnose me insane. The derided the idea of not
drinking alcohol-------in fact they even "ACCUSED" the indian hindus of the 'stupidity' of being teetotalers.
Thing changed slowly------then the big change happened in 1979 ------I remember it well------Iran was transformed into
a SHARIAH SHITHOLE-------and the brain drain went into
TZUNAMMI level--------

 

[sealybobo]

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?


Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to do?

Decisions, decisions.

I ask my Iranian buddy if they have alcohol in Iran. He says you can get ANYTHING you want. Heroin, Hash, Booze. They just don't have bars where you can go buy booze. But the Muslim world is full of sin just like the West. The government really doesn't care as long as you don't talk political. I always assumed they were all walking around with full burkas and head scarves and the women were second class citizens. The Iranian people are very modern. I think Islam is losing its grip just like Christianity is in the West.

Teheran muslims are very sophisticated. The first Iranians
I encountered in the USA -----were jews ------it was the mid
60s when the Iranian parents began to detect the stench of islam in the air and started shipping their teenaged kids OUT.
----very shortly thereafter I came into contact with Iranian muslims of the educated variety-----the educated muslims started leaving in the late 60s when they TOO ----began to
detect the stench of rising Islamism. How do I know?----it was the muslim Teheran Iranians who told me. As for being "religious"------well----the jews were kinda into traditional Judaism------but ask an Iranian muslim----"have you ever read the Koran"? those young docs were ready to diagnose me insane. The derided the idea of not
drinking alcohol-------in fact they even "ACCUSED" the indian hindus of the 'stupidity' of being teetotalers.
Thing changed slowly------then the big change happened in 1979 ------I remember it well------Iran was transformed into
a SHARIAH SHITHOLE-------and the brain drain went into
TZUNAMMI level--------

I saw a PBS special on Jews living in Iran during that time. It was very interesting. How can a movement so unpopular become the law of the land in Iran?

I guess just like here in America. The GOP are moving closer and closer to banning abortion when most women would like the choice to be theirs. If one day they made abortion illegal, what would people do? Nothing other than picket and vote. Would banning abortion be enough to get women to show up and vote?

Now lets say your vote doesn't matter, like in Iran. Now all you can do is protest. And if your protest gets too big, they just send in the military.

 

[irosie91]

[QUOTE="Hollie, post: 10575591,

I saw a PBS special on Jews living in Iran during that time. It was very interesting. How can a movement so unpopular become the law of the land in Iran?

I guess just like here in America. The GOP are moving closer and closer to banning abortion when most women would like the choice to be theirs. If one day they made abortion illegal, what would people do? Nothing other than picket and vote. Would banning abortion be enough to get women to show up and vote?

Now lets say your vote doesn't matter, like in Iran. Now all you can do is protest. And if your protest gets too big, they just send in the military.

I will explain Mr BOO-----I just happened at the time----from
mid 60s thru 1979 ------to be in contact with lots of Iranians----
thru work and just the place I lived. I had close friendships with many. ----ok-----here goes-----Way back in the 60s----
the majority of Iranians did not live in Teheran and were not
educated people----at all. ---They were----excuse the expression-----unlettered peasant people---and muslims.
The islamists understood that their "hope for the future" lay
in the hearts of the unlettered and the really new idea -----
MAJORITY RULE. ----other facts too----like the impoverished
state of the unlettered country muslim vs the educated
muslims (and jews) of Teheran. The Ayatoilets seemed
like MUHUMMAD ON EARTH to the illiterates of the
country side who had the POWER OF THE VOTE-----so
now you know. If the matter were left to the Teheran people------the Ayatoilets would have been defeated. The shah was no fun-----but he was a lot better than them

 

[Coyote]

Well duh, what do you think Christianity did? Mormanism? How many devils, angels and characters of all 3 were plucked from earlier politheistic religions to occupy new pantheons?

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

You seem to have a problem with other people cutting and pasting material. Yet you do it yourself. How odd.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Why?

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?

The bold part is exactly what is layed out in Christianity and Judiasm - one can not be forced to obey a law that compels one to sin. That isn't rocket science so while your repetitive cut and paste example is helpful, it's not truly necessary. The point was already made and acknowledged.

Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to did?

Decisions, decisions.

Good questions, and those are among the questions being tossed around in Islam these days. That was, by the way an EXCELLENT article, it took a while to read and I still have to read the other articles in the set. Did you read the entire article? If you did, you'll see how he laid out a framework for democracy within Islam. Very interesting.

 

[irosie91]

you got it right COYOTE---one cannot be forced to obey a law that compels one to SIN------for muslims NOT KILLING any person who denies the divine rule of the rapist pig of Arabia is
a SIN. When dealing with any group with a firm ethic-----
it is important to know just what that ethic is. You have reminded me of an interesting conversation I once had with
a potentially extremist jew (extreme like hot shot orthodox from a secular family----we were teens---he went on to become a monastic style rabbi) He touted the very typical jewish extreme answer to the problem of avoiding "sin"-------to wit ----isolation---as in "things were easier in the ghettos" -----and don't sit next to ladies on airplanes-----who knows that "thoughts" might pollute your brain. I am all for muslims
living off somewhere isolated so they can AVOID
hearing the truth about the rapist pig of arabia

 

[Hollie]

Well duh, we just need to understand that your claims suggesting that moslems must obey the law of the land is taqiyya-speak.

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

You seem to have a problem with other people cutting and pasting material. Yet you do it yourself. How odd.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Why?

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?

The bold part is exactly what is layed out in Christianity and Judiasm - one can not be forced to obey a law that compels one to sin. That isn't rocket science so while your repetitive cut and paste example is helpful, it's not truly necessary. The point was already made and acknowledged.

Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to did?

Decisions, decisions.

Good questions, and those are among the questions being tossed around in Islam these days. That was, by the way an EXCELLENT article, it took a while to read and I still have to read the other articles in the set. Did you read the entire article? If you did, you'll see how he laid out a framework for democracy within Islam. Very interesting.

Speaking of democracy in Islamism:


Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system - islamqa.info


107166: Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system
What is the ruling on democracy and taking a leadership role in parliment or other levels of the democratical government? What is the ruling regarding voting for someone in democracy? How was the islamic state organized, and governed in the classical times?.

Praise be to Allaah.


Firstly:

Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allaah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.

It says in Mawsoo’at al-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah (2/1066, 1067):

Undoubtedly the democratic system is one of the modern forms of shirk, in terms of obedience and following, or legislation, as it denies the sovereignty of the Creator and His absolute right to issue laws, and ascribes that right to human beings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged) — you and your fathers — for which Allaah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allaah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (i.e. His Monotheism); that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not”

[Yoosuf 12:40]

“The decision is only for Allaah”

[al-An’aam 6:57]

End quote.

This has been discussed in detail in the answer to question no. 98134.

Secondly:

The one who understands the true nature of the democratic system and the ruling thereon, then he nominates himself or someone else (for election) is approving of this system, and is working with it, is in grave danger, because the democratic system is contrary to Islam and approving of it and participating in it are actions that imply apostasy and being beyond the pale of Islam.

 

[irosie91]

for those confused by this discussion------I will clarify. If the Hebdo and Kosher grocery murderers were tried in a SHARIAH
COURT-----the would all be acquitted. For Islamic purposes---
the ones killed are all in JANNAH-----the left over murderess slut---HAYAT----is protected in the arms of her bretheren and
adulated as a HEROINE

 

[Coyote]

According to whom?

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

You seem to have a problem with other people cutting and pasting material. Yet you do it yourself. How odd.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Why?

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?

The bold part is exactly what is layed out in Christianity and Judiasm - one can not be forced to obey a law that compels one to sin. That isn't rocket science so while your repetitive cut and paste example is helpful, it's not truly necessary. The point was already made and acknowledged.

Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to did?

Decisions, decisions.

Good questions, and those are among the questions being tossed around in Islam these days. That was, by the way an EXCELLENT article, it took a while to read and I still have to read the other articles in the set. Did you read the entire article? If you did, you'll see how he laid out a framework for democracy within Islam. Very interesting.

Speaking of democracy in Islamism:


Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system - islamqa.info


107166: Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system
What is the ruling on democracy and taking a leadership role in parliment or other levels of the democratical government? What is the ruling regarding voting for someone in democracy? How was the islamic state organized, and governed in the classical times?.

Praise be to Allaah.


Firstly:

Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allaah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.

It says in Mawsoo’at al-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah (2/1066, 1067):

Undoubtedly the democratic system is one of the modern forms of shirk, in terms of obedience and following, or legislation, as it denies the sovereignty of the Creator and His absolute right to issue laws, and ascribes that right to human beings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged) — you and your fathers — for which Allaah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allaah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (i.e. His Monotheism); that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not”

[Yoosuf 12:40]

“The decision is only for Allaah”

[al-An’aam 6:57]

End quote.

This has been discussed in detail in the answer to question no. 98134.

Secondly:

The one who understands the true nature of the democratic system and the ruling thereon, then he nominates himself or someone else (for election) is approving of this system, and is working with it, is in grave danger, because the democratic system is contrary to Islam and approving of it and participating in it are actions that imply apostasy and being beyond the pale of Islam.

People seem to think that democracy is nothing more than elections. Once you have an election that is it. The article you posted prior was far more detailed and thoughtful, about what a democratic form of government means and whether it can mesh with Islam - the difficulties, the jurisprudence, the historic precedences. You really should have read it.

 

[Hollie]

According to islamist sources such as the one I supplied you.

Which says essentially the same thing as the source I had quoted with a bit more information. As long as they aren't forced to go against their faith.

No different than:

Question: "Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land?"

Answer: Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 'We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,' he said. 'Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood.' Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!'“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

Read more: Do Christians have to obey the laws of the land ​

Obviously, you're desperate to sidestep your attempt at dishonesty (taqiyya) with pointless cutting and pasting.

You seem to have a problem with other people cutting and pasting material. Yet you do it yourself. How odd.

Describe for us the principle of democracy and how that conflicts with islamist sharia.

Why?

Here, I'll lend an assist as you're just too dishonest to objectively examine the matter.

Obeying the Law of the Land in the West - IslamQA

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Muslims are generally obliged to abide by the laws of the land and the country they live in, whether it is a Islamic state (al-khilafa), Muslim countries, or non-Muslim countries such as those in the west, as long as they are not ordered to practice something that is against Shariah. If they are forced by the law to commit a sin, then in such a case, it will not just be unnecessary to abide by the law, rather impermissible.


The bolded part above was added by me. Now, let's examine the principle of democracy, shall we?

The bold part is exactly what is layed out in Christianity and Judiasm - one can not be forced to obey a law that compels one to sin. That isn't rocket science so while your repetitive cut and paste example is helpful, it's not truly necessary. The point was already made and acknowledged.

Islam and the Challenge of Democracy Boston Review

For Islam, democracy poses a formidable challenge. Muslim jurists argued that law made by a sovereign monarch is illegitimate because it substitutes human authority for God’s sovereignty. But law made by sovereign citizens faces the same problem of legitimacy. In Islam, God is the only sovereign and ultimate source of legitimate law. How, then, can a democratic conception of the people’s authority be reconciled with an Islamic understanding of God’s authority?

As we know, democracy is shirk, at least according to the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish).

What's a pious moslem to did?

Decisions, decisions.

Good questions, and those are among the questions being tossed around in Islam these days. That was, by the way an EXCELLENT article, it took a while to read and I still have to read the other articles in the set. Did you read the entire article? If you did, you'll see how he laid out a framework for democracy within Islam. Very interesting.

Speaking of democracy in Islamism:


Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system - islamqa.info


107166: Ruling on democracy and elections and participating in that system
What is the ruling on democracy and taking a leadership role in parliment or other levels of the democratical government? What is the ruling regarding voting for someone in democracy? How was the islamic state organized, and governed in the classical times?.

Praise be to Allaah.


Firstly:

Democracy is a man-made system, meaning rule by the people for the people. Thus it is contrary to Islam, because rule is for Allaah, the Most High, the Almighty, and it is not permissible to give legislative rights to any human being, no matter who he is.

It says in Mawsoo’at al-Adyaan wa’l-Madhaahib al-Mu’aasirah (2/1066, 1067):

Undoubtedly the democratic system is one of the modern forms of shirk, in terms of obedience and following, or legislation, as it denies the sovereignty of the Creator and His absolute right to issue laws, and ascribes that right to human beings. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged) — you and your fathers — for which Allaah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allaah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (i.e. His Monotheism); that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not”

[Yoosuf 12:40]

“The decision is only for Allaah”

[al-An’aam 6:57]

End quote.

This has been discussed in detail in the answer to question no. 98134.

Secondly:

The one who understands the true nature of the democratic system and the ruling thereon, then he nominates himself or someone else (for election) is approving of this system, and is working with it, is in grave danger, because the democratic system is contrary to Islam and approving of it and participating in it are actions that imply apostasy and being beyond the pale of Islam.

People seem to think that democracy is nothing more than elections. Once you have an election that is it. The article you posted prior was far more detailed and thoughtful, about what a democratic form of government means and whether it can mesh with Islam - the difficulties, the jurisprudence, the historic precedences. You really should have read it.

I did read it.

What we find is that the politico-religious ideology invented by Muhammud (swish) is utterly hostile to representative rule.

You should have made an attempt to understand the ideology.