Jenner - Theory on Sex Change......

[Esmeralda]

It is not “vitriol” nor “anger” to call a blatant falsehood for what it is.

Mr. Jenner is not, has never been, and will never be female. That is a solid, unalterable, scientific fact. Those who insist on claiming that he is female are simply wrong.

Legally she is female

If one can legally change gender, then one can legally become a dog.

I wonder can I legally become black.

What an idiotic response.

 

[Esmeralda]

It is not “vitriol” nor “anger” to call a blatant falsehood for what it is.

Mr. Jenner is not, has never been, and will never be female. That is a solid, unalterable, scientific fact. Those who insist on claiming that he is female are simply wrong.

Only if you are completely and totally incapable of thinking outside the box. Those with limited intuition, limited vision, limited awareness that there is more to the human species than what makes up your biological chemical details, such people cannot imagine that someone can be male or female biologically but have mental and emotional components that are the opposite of their biology.

Also, we don't know everything yet. Anything we know about science, biology, the soul and the spirit--it's all limited. We are not all knowing, we are not fully informed about the entire essense [sic] of life. So, we truly have no way of fully knowing or understanding such things as gender identity. Too many people are homosexual, and knew it since childhood, to say they are mentally ill or purposly [sic] perverse. Too many people have gender identity conflicts to say they are all mentally ill.

When people like you say either you are like me or your are mentally ill, what you show is a limited understanding of the complexity of the human body and mind. And you use this limitation in an angry, bigoted way. You have nothing to be arrogant about because your belief in your perspective is only that: a belief in one perspective. Your perspective does not represent fact; it represents a limited view and understanding.

When I discuss this topic, I am very much reminded of the classic tale of The Emperor's New Clothes.

The story tells us of the Emperor being approached by a group of men who offer to create, for him, a spectacular new outfit. They claim to have the ability to create a cloth that has the magical property of being invisible to anyone who is either unpardonably stupid, or else unfit for his post.

I'm sure you know how the story goes. The Emperor himself cannot see these clothes. He suspects that he's been duped, but he dares not say so, for fear that he will be judged to be stupid or incompetent. The same is true of all the members of his household and staff.

The Emperor has the tailors dress him in these clothes, and he parades about his Kingdom. All the people gush and fawn over how spectacular His Majesty's new outfit is, also being afraid to admit what they can clearly see, for nobody wants to be thought to be stupid or incompetent.

In the story, it takes a young, innocent child, who does not understand what he is supposed to be afraid of, to speak up and say what everyone can see, but nobody will admit—that His Majesty is parading before them stark naked.

We, as a society, have been lied to. This notion of “transgenderism” or “gender fluidity” is absurd on its face, and none of us have a good excuse not to see that. From an early age, we all come to understand that there are essential differences between boys and girls; and by adulthood, we understand the significance and immutability of these differences. This lie has been pushed on us, with the claim that if we do not accept it, then we are “hateful”, “bigoted”, “ignorant”, that we have “a limited understanding”, that “we are not fully informed about the entire essense [sic] of life”, and that we “use this limitation in an angry, bigoted way.” Foolishly, too many of us allow ourselves to be intimidated by such threats, into playing along with what we can clearly see is a lie. Some of us even go so far as to convince themselves to believe the lie, in order to avoid being all the adverse things that they've been told they must be to reject it.

Anything we know about science, biology, the soul and the spirit--it's all limited.

We know enough about science and biology to clearly and unambiguously know what male and female mean. If you reject this knowledge, in favor of nonsensical wrong-wing psychobabble, then the error is on you.

No we don't. That is the fallacy. We know what we know, but it is limited. We do not know everything, and in the future, when we have more scientific knowledge or more knowledge in general, what we think we know now may change. To assume we know all now is absurd and foolish.

 

[Esmeralda]

It is not “vitriol” nor “anger” to call a blatant falsehood for what it is.

Mr. Jenner is not, has never been, and will never be female. That is a solid, unalterable, scientific fact. Those who insist on claiming that he is female are simply wrong.

Only if you are completely and totally incapable of thinking outside the box. Those with limited intuition, limited vision, limited awareness that there is more to the human species than what makes up your biological chemical details, such people cannot imagine that someone can be male or female biologically but have mental and emotional components that are the opposite of their biology.

Also, we don't know everything yet. Anything we know about science, biology, the soul and the spirit--it's all limited. We are not all knowing, we are not fully informed about the entire essense [sic] of life. So, we truly have no way of fully knowing or understanding such things as gender identity. Too many people are homosexual, and knew it since childhood, to say they are mentally ill or purposly [sic] perverse. Too many people have gender identity conflicts to say they are all mentally ill.

When people like you say either you are like me or your are mentally ill, what you show is a limited understanding of the complexity of the human body and mind. And you use this limitation in an angry, bigoted way. You have nothing to be arrogant about because your belief in your perspective is only that: a belief in one perspective. Your perspective does not represent fact; it represents a limited view and understanding.

When I discuss this topic, I am very much reminded of the classic tale of The Emperor's New Clothes.

The story tells us of the Emperor being approached by a group of men who offer to create, for him, a spectacular new outfit. They claim to have the ability to create a cloth that has the magical property of being invisible to anyone who is either unpardonably stupid, or else unfit for his post.

I'm sure you know how the story goes. The Emperor himself cannot see these clothes. He suspects that he's been duped, but he dares not say so, for fear that he will be judged to be stupid or incompetent. The same is true of all the members of his household and staff.

The Emperor has the tailors dress him in these clothes, and he parades about his Kingdom. All the people gush and fawn over how spectacular His Majesty's new outfit is, also being afraid to admit what they can clearly see, for nobody wants to be thought to be stupid or incompetent.

In the story, it takes a young, innocent child, who does not understand what he is supposed to be afraid of, to speak up and say what everyone can see, but nobody will admit—that His Majesty is parading before them stark naked.

We, as a society, have been lied to. This notion of “transgenderism” or “gender fluidity” is absurd on its face, and none of us have a good excuse not to see that. From an early age, we all come to understand that there are essential differences between boys and girls; and by adulthood, we understand the significance and immutability of these differences. This lie has been pushed on us, with the claim that if we do not accept it, then we are “hateful”, “bigoted”, “ignorant”, that we have “a limited understanding”, that “we are not fully informed about the entire essense [sic] of life”, and that we “use this limitation in an angry, bigoted way.” Foolishly, too many of us allow ourselves to be intimidated by such threats, into playing along with what we can clearly see is a lie. Some of us even go so far as to convince themselves to believe the lie, in order to avoid being all the adverse things that they've been told they must be to reject it.

Anything we know about science, biology, the soul and the spirit--it's all limited.

We know enough about science and biology to clearly and unambiguously know what male and female mean. If you reject this knowledge, in favor of nonsensical wrong-wing psychobabble, then the error is on you.

Yeah. It's totally unfortunate that you are missing the point of the story 'The Emperor's New Clothes.' It's not about closing your mind to possibilities, which you are doing. Closed minded. Unable to see beyond what you believe to be reality. No understanding of the limitations of our current knowledge about the world we live in, etc. You are limited, that's why you are unable to accept the possibility that people are different than you want them to be. The real clue about your limitations is that you are so angry and belligerent about it. It threatens you and offends you: your response to this issue is purely emotional.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I have tired so much of,the mental midgets on usmb who pronounce their feelings as science and rather than promote their side of the arguments with facts their strategy is just to tire other people out by constantly demanding links or proof of what they say. Links or proof doesn't do any good because liberals cannot be swayed by the facts or the truth. Esmeralda is a joke. Bruce jenners problems are all my fault, I am a bad person, I don't care about my fellow man or woman. E you are the hater living in a fantasy world. You can take it to the bank that if I say it I can back,it up. And for the guy who said can you back up the suicide stat, get off your ass and look it up for yourself. I am a tolerant person, but don't expect tolerance to mean acceptance, and don't expect me to sit idly by while people try to shove their moral vacuums down my throat by mounting personal attacks. You ain't got nothing, so when you can mount a fact based defense of your position with links and adult debate come on back an got you some,of it.
Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;' Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible’

 

[aris2chat]

I have tired so much of,the mental midgets on usmb who pronounce their feelings as science and rather than promote their side of the arguments with facts their strategy is just to tire other people out by constantly demanding links or proof of what they say. Links or proof doesn't do any good because liberals cannot be swayed by the facts or the truth. Esmeralda is a joke. Bruce jenners problems are all my fault, I am a bad person, I don't care about my fellow man or woman. E you are the hater living in a fantasy world. You can take it to the bank that if I say it I can back,it up. And for the guy who said can you back up the suicide stat, get off your ass and look it up for yourself. I am a tolerant person, but don't expect tolerance to mean acceptance, and don't expect me to sit idly by while people try to shove their moral vacuums down my throat by mounting personal attacks. You ain't got nothing, so when you can mount a fact based defense of your position with links and adult debate come on back an got you some,of it.
Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;' Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible’

APA Revises Manual: Being Transgender is No Longer a Mental Disorder, three years ago

 

[Ame®icano]

It is not “vitriol” nor “anger” to call a blatant falsehood for what it is.

Mr. Jenner is not, has never been, and will never be female. That is a solid, unalterable, scientific fact. Those who insist on claiming that he is female are simply wrong.

Legally she is female

If one can legally change gender, then one can legally become a dog.

I wonder can I legally become black.

What an idiotic response.

Is that a comment or an answer?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Bruce officially changed his name to Caitlyn and went to physical transformation from male to female.
Dolezal and King both did not make any changes to become black.
They did not even bother to buy a black spray paint but they claimed they are black. Is that make any sense?

My understanding, is that as of the last word that was made public on the subject, he had had minor surgery to his face to make it appear more feminine, and breast implants, but that his “boy parts” are still present and intact.

More recently, he made a point of appearing, and being photographed and filmed, wearing a women's swimsuit. He really shouldn't have done that, until after he's had the “downstairs surgery”. Actual women don't have bulging “boy parts” (unless they are “post-op transmen”); and women's swimwear is not typically designed to hide them. Nobody wants to see that.

 

[Davros]

Transgender is real. I know some people don't like it. But it's none of their business, because someone being transgender doesn't hurt anyone else.

The sex change was underway prior to the accident so the OP'S theory is completely debunked.

 

[Davros]

Bruce officially changed his name to Caitlyn and went to physical transformation from male to female.
Dolezal and King both did not make any changes to become black.
They did not even bother to buy a black spray paint but they claimed they are black. Is that make any sense?

My understanding, is that as of the last word that was made public on the subject, he had had minor surgery to his face to make it appear more feminine, and breast implants, but that his “boy parts” are still present and intact.

More recently, he made a point of appearing, and being photographed and filmed, wearing a women's swimsuit. He really shouldn't have done that, until after he's had the “downstairs surgery”. Actual women don't have bulging “boy parts” (unless they are “post-op transmen”); and women's swimwear is not typically designed to hide them. Nobody wants to see that.

If you don't want to see it, don't look at peoples' crotches.

 

[Silhouette]

Transgender is real. I know some people don't like it. But it's none of their business, because someone being transgender doesn't hurt anyone else.

The sex change was underway prior to the accident so the OP'S theory is completely debunked.

Transgender is an institutionalized mental illness calling itself "legitimate". In that sense and that sense only it is "real". A real tragedy of misdiagnosed mental illness of the refusal to accept reality on its own terms.

 

[Davros]

Transgender is real. I know some people don't like it. But it's none of their business, because someone being transgender doesn't hurt anyone else.

The sex change was underway prior to the accident so the OP'S theory is completely debunked.

Transgender is an institutionalized mental illness calling itself "legitimate". In that sense and that sense only it is "real". A real tragedy of misdiagnosed mental illness of the refusal to accept reality on its own terms.

What's it to you if someone changes his gender? Why must that be labeled as "mentally ill"? Why not just leave them alone? They're not hurting anyone by changing from a man to a woman.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What's it to you if someone changes his gender? Why must that be labeled as "mentally ill"? Why not just leave them alone? They're not hurting anyone by changing from a man to a woman.

Do you have any daughters, sisters, or a wife? How would you feel about some creepy perverted man like Bruce Jenner being present in a women's restroom, dressing room, or locker room, while some female relative or acquaintance whose safety and well-being matters to you, is availing herself of that facility? Are you OK with that?

 

[Davros]

What's it to you if someone changes his gender? Why must that be labeled as "mentally ill"? Why not just leave them alone? They're not hurting anyone by changing from a man to a woman.

Do you have any daughters, sisters, or a wife? How would you feel about some creepy perverted man like Bruce Jenner being present in a women's restroom, dressing room, or locker room, while some female relative or acquaintance whose safety and well-being matters to you, is availing herself of that facility? Are you OK with that?

Your definition of "creepy" is different from mine.

You can't keep everyone that you personally find objectionable out of women's restrooms so long as legally they are women.

I have no more problem with transgender being in restrooms than lesbians being in there. In fact, while a majority of transgender would not be physically attracted to women, 100% of lesbians are.

You can't guarantee that any locker room, restroom, etc is free of people who might be sexually attracted to you. That's just a fact of life.

I have no problem with Caitlyn Jenner using womens' restrooms.

 

[charwin95]

What's it to you if someone changes his gender? Why must that be labeled as "mentally ill"? Why not just leave them alone? They're not hurting anyone by changing from a man to a woman.

Do you have any daughters, sisters, or a wife? How would you feel about some creepy perverted man like Bruce Jenner being present in a women's restroom, dressing room, or locker room, while some female relative or acquaintance whose safety and well-being matters to you, is availing herself of that facility? Are you OK with that?

Transgender and tomboys had existed long before Jenner was born. So why are you so concern about restrooms now?

 

[aris2chat]

Transgender is real. I know some people don't like it. But it's none of their business, because someone being transgender doesn't hurt anyone else.

The sex change was underway prior to the accident so the OP'S theory is completely debunked.

Transgender is an institutionalized mental illness calling itself "legitimate". In that sense and that sense only it is "real". A real tragedy of misdiagnosed mental illness of the refusal to accept reality on its own terms.

Not according to the APA

 

[aris2chat]

What's it to you if someone changes his gender? Why must that be labeled as "mentally ill"? Why not just leave them alone? They're not hurting anyone by changing from a man to a woman.

Do you have any daughters, sisters, or a wife? How would you feel about some creepy perverted man like Bruce Jenner being present in a women's restroom, dressing room, or locker room, while some female relative or acquaintance whose safety and well-being matters to you, is availing herself of that facility? Are you OK with that?

There are unisex bathrooms, so what? Only bigots worry about seeing someone shit on a pot.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Only bigots worry about seeing someone shit on a pot.

This is a rather extreme application of the standard wrong-wing tactic of accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being “bigots”.

So now, it makes one a “bigot” to think that men have no business being in women's dressing rooms, locker rooms, or restrooms?

 

[Davros]

Only bigots worry about seeing someone shit on a pot.

This is a rather extreme application of the standard wrong-wing tactic of accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being “bigots”.

So now, it makes one a “bigot” to think that men have no business being in women's dressing rooms, locker rooms, or restrooms?

Caitlyn Jenner is not a man.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Caitlyn Jenner is not a man.

He most certainly is not a woman.

I'm willing to entertain the argument that a eunuch is not really a man, but something somewhere in-between. But as of last available information, he hasn't crossed that bridge, yet.

In any event, a eunuch is still not a woman.

 

[aris2chat]

Only bigots worry about seeing someone shit on a pot.

This is a rather extreme application of the standard wrong-wing tactic of accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being “bigots”.

So now, it makes one a “bigot” to think that men have no business being in women's dressing rooms, locker rooms, or restrooms?

Why the fuss? Do we have male or female bathrooms in our homes? If there are unisex bathrooms at work or anyplace, it should not matter. A lot of places are going unisex. There are even female urinals.
We don't have separate bathrooms for black and whites any more. Why should we have for male and female?