Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[paulitician]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

thanks for providing a plan.

however, your plan would not work. how do conduct a background check of a private party selling a gun to a friend? currently crimes and deaths have been committed even when a background check is done. it does help, but is not foolproof.

what would registration solve? if i sell my gun to person X, and they use it for a crime, why should i be responsible? a store is not responsible for a dui when someone gets drunk and drives.

Debating the effectiveness of gun control laws with proponents of gun control laws is akin to asking them to accept reality in lieu of their false logic. They logically conclude that if a criminal had no gun, the criminal could not use the gun to commit a crime. This is quite true. Then they err in concluding that gun laws will keep guns away from criminals. The err in concluding that law abiding citizens will not have their constitutional gun rights infringed upon by laws limiting their access to guns.

People like Geraldo Rivera (a proponent of gun control) are surrounded by paid bodyguards. Geraldo doesn't need to carry a gun.

Yes, Limousine Liberals don't live in the real world. They live in guarded gated communities and send their children to private schools. They're Communists/Progressives, yet they love their wealth. They certainly don't give all their money away and become 'Good Communists.'

They just expect the little people to be the good Communists. They won't be standing in long lines for toilet paper like they did in the Soviet Union or like they do in Venezuela. Only the little people will be doing that. Communism/Socialism looks good to them because they won't have to experience the misery. They're rich. I truly do despise Limousine Liberals.

 

[Ernie S.]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

 

[paulitician]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why is that our problem that there are a few nuts out there and the Democrat nuts exploit that?

To 2guy's point, do you offer the same advice to gays? Are the wacko gays the problem of all gay's? Do all gays need to feel like they are like you tell gun owners that somehow the wackos are our problem? It's a great question

This isn't about gays.

No. It's about you not being consistent.

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it.

Your inconsistency on this matter is noted.
Thank you.

Just trying to enlighten you on how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. Honestly, too many people into guns do behave aggressively and obsessively. I've witnessed the behavior on many occasions. They behave like angry drug addicts demanding a fix.

Most gun owners don't understand that perception is everything. Gun owners need to watch their behavior. Because they are being observed. The Gun-Grabbers are looking for any excuse to grab em. And unfortunately, many gun owners are giving them more excuses. Curb the aggression and obsession, or else. Just stating reality.

Must be where you live because I've never seen anything like that. I own guns as do many of my friends and some family members. I know people who are really into guns, but their personality is no different than those who are into coin collecting, buying electric guitars, fascination of cars or even collecting baseball cards.

 

[kaz]

No. It's about you not being consistent.

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it. Guns will be banned lickety-split. I'm trying to help. I'm trying to explain to you how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. You dress in camo head to toe and act aggressively and obsessively, most are gonna get frightened and view you as weird gun psychos.

Behavior does matter when it comes to perception. And honestly, i have come across too many aggressive obsessive gun owners. It's an unhealthy addiction for some. If you're acting aggressive and obsessive pertaining to guns, maybe you really shouldn't have guns. That's how many Americans see it. So don't ignore perception. You'll regret it.

You're trying to help by letting us know that as long as we're reasonable and we don't think guns are actually a protected right then we won't lose them entirely. Hmm. Thanks for that "help"

Know your enemy. It's wise to begin understanding how most Anti-Gun folks think. Most are not Gun-Grabber zealots. Most are reasonable people who just fear guns. And sadly, too many gun owners are obsessed aggressive kooks. They're giving people good reason to fear em.

Many gun owners do approach guns & ammo the way drug addicts approach drugs. It's disturbing behavior. It creeps out average people who aren't into firearms. It's a good idea to understand perception. It helps the cause.

So again, somehow we're supposed to be apologists for gun nuts, but gays you don't call to hold that standard

The subject of the thread isn't about gays. That's another issue. But seriously, it would be wise to begin understanding how most Anti-Gun folks think. Ignoring it, will only hurt the cause.

Intellectual consistency is clearly relevant whether you want it to be or not, it shows whether your standard is actually a standard or not. In your case it's not, you don't apply the same standard to one group (gays) you apply to another (guns).

[If you're obsessed with guns & ammo, you probably do have a problem. You should chill out and find another hobby. It's those kind of gun owners who are pushing more people into the Gun-Grabber camp.

Thanks for your concern over my feelings, girlfriend. I'll let you know if I need a hug. Just so you know, you have no idea how I feel and I don't care if you did, so I'd just not worry about it.

So again, somehow gun nuts are the problem of mainstream American gun owners. But apparently gay wackos are not the problem of other gays. Got it

 

[kaz]

This isn't about gays.

No. It's about you not being consistent.

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it.

Your inconsistency on this matter is noted.
Thank you.

Just trying to enlighten you on how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. Honestly, too many people into guns do behave aggressively and obsessively. I've witnessed the behavior on many occasions. They behave like angry drug addicts demanding a fix.

Most gun owners don't understand that perception is everything. Gun owners need to watch their behavior. Because they are being observed. The Gun-Grabbers are looking for any excuse to grab em. And unfortunately, many gun owners are giving them more excuses. Curb the aggression and obsession, or else. Just stating reality.

Must be where you live because I've never seen anything like that. I own guns as do many of my friends and some family members. I know people who are really into guns, but their personality is no different than those who are into coin collecting, buying electric guitars, fascination of cars or even collecting baseball cards.

He can't tell the difference between what he actually personally witnesses and what he sees on TV. He still thinks aliens actually exist because he met Alf by watching his show

 

[kaz]

The subject of the thread isn't about gays.

No. It's your inconsistency.

It's not that either. And seeing the other side's view is good for the cause. Ignoring it, will destroy the cause.

That makes no sense. They aren't changing their view and they don't have the legitimate right to deny us Constitutional rights. Why do we need to understand our oppressors?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No. It's about you not being consistent.

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it.

Your inconsistency on this matter is noted.
Thank you.

Just trying to enlighten you on how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. Honestly, too many people into guns do behave aggressively and obsessively. I've witnessed the behavior on many occasions. They behave like angry drug addicts demanding a fix.

Most gun owners don't understand that perception is everything. Gun owners need to watch their behavior. Because they are being observed. The Gun-Grabbers are looking for any excuse to grab em. And unfortunately, many gun owners are giving them more excuses. Curb the aggression and obsession, or else. Just stating reality.

Must be where you live because I've never seen anything like that. I own guns as do many of my friends and some family members. I know people who are really into guns, but their personality is no different than those who are into coin collecting, buying electric guitars, fascination of cars or even collecting baseball cards.

He can't tell the difference between what he actually personally witnesses and what he sees on TV. He still thinks aliens actually exist because he met Alf by watching his show

It does sound like he's reading more into people than they are. Also I've never heard a pro-gun person ever change their stance because they seen anybody act like the people he's describing that he supposedly sees all the time.

 

[paulitician]

This isn't about gays.

No. It's about you not being consistent.

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it.

Your inconsistency on this matter is noted.
Thank you.

Just trying to enlighten you on how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. Honestly, too many people into guns do behave aggressively and obsessively. I've witnessed the behavior on many occasions. They behave like angry drug addicts demanding a fix.

Most gun owners don't understand that perception is everything. Gun owners need to watch their behavior. Because they are being observed. The Gun-Grabbers are looking for any excuse to grab em. And unfortunately, many gun owners are giving them more excuses. Curb the aggression and obsession, or else. Just stating reality.

Must be where you live because I've never seen anything like that. I own guns as do many of my friends and some family members. I know people who are really into guns, but their personality is no different than those who are into coin collecting, buying electric guitars, fascination of cars or even collecting baseball cards.

Many who own several guns, do seem to exhibit aggression and bravado. That behavior scares people who aren't into firearms. I own guns and have been in the gun selling business. So i've been around a lot of gun owners.

Most are ok, but many do exhibit a Rambo-wannabe aggressive behavior. Too many really do believe the more firearms they own, the tougher they are. It's dangerous thinking.

 

[paulitician]

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it. Guns will be banned lickety-split. I'm trying to help. I'm trying to explain to you how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. You dress in camo head to toe and act aggressively and obsessively, most are gonna get frightened and view you as weird gun psychos.

Behavior does matter when it comes to perception. And honestly, i have come across too many aggressive obsessive gun owners. It's an unhealthy addiction for some. If you're acting aggressive and obsessive pertaining to guns, maybe you really shouldn't have guns. That's how many Americans see it. So don't ignore perception. You'll regret it.

You're trying to help by letting us know that as long as we're reasonable and we don't think guns are actually a protected right then we won't lose them entirely. Hmm. Thanks for that "help"

Know your enemy. It's wise to begin understanding how most Anti-Gun folks think. Most are not Gun-Grabber zealots. Most are reasonable people who just fear guns. And sadly, too many gun owners are obsessed aggressive kooks. They're giving people good reason to fear em.

Many gun owners do approach guns & ammo the way drug addicts approach drugs. It's disturbing behavior. It creeps out average people who aren't into firearms. It's a good idea to understand perception. It helps the cause.

So again, somehow we're supposed to be apologists for gun nuts, but gays you don't call to hold that standard

The subject of the thread isn't about gays. That's another issue. But seriously, it would be wise to begin understanding how most Anti-Gun folks think. Ignoring it, will only hurt the cause.

Intellectual consistency is clearly relevant whether you want it to be or not, it shows whether your standard is actually a standard or not. In your case it's not, you don't apply the same standard to one group (gays) you apply to another (guns).

[If you're obsessed with guns & ammo, you probably do have a problem. You should chill out and find another hobby. It's those kind of gun owners who are pushing more people into the Gun-Grabber camp.

Thanks for your concern over my feelings, girlfriend. I'll let you know if I need a hug. Just so you know, you have no idea how I feel and I don't care if you did, so I'd just not worry about it.

So again, somehow gun nuts are the problem of mainstream American gun owners. But apparently gay wackos are not the problem of other gays. Got it

Glad i could help.

 

[paulitician]

The subject of the thread isn't about gays.

No. It's your inconsistency.

It's not that either. And seeing the other side's view is good for the cause. Ignoring it, will destroy the cause.

That makes no sense. They aren't changing their view and they don't have the legitimate right to deny us Constitutional rights. Why do we need to understand our oppressors?

Being a gun-obsessed asshole won't help the cause. It'll only hurt it.

 

[kaz]

No. It's about you not being consistent.

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it.

Your inconsistency on this matter is noted.
Thank you.

Just trying to enlighten you on how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. Honestly, too many people into guns do behave aggressively and obsessively. I've witnessed the behavior on many occasions. They behave like angry drug addicts demanding a fix.

Most gun owners don't understand that perception is everything. Gun owners need to watch their behavior. Because they are being observed. The Gun-Grabbers are looking for any excuse to grab em. And unfortunately, many gun owners are giving them more excuses. Curb the aggression and obsession, or else. Just stating reality.

Must be where you live because I've never seen anything like that. I own guns as do many of my friends and some family members. I know people who are really into guns, but their personality is no different than those who are into coin collecting, buying electric guitars, fascination of cars or even collecting baseball cards.

Many who own several guns, do seem to exhibit aggression and bravado. That behavior scares people who aren't into firearms. I own guns and have been in the gun selling business. So i've been around a lot of gun owners.

Most are ok, but many do exhibit a Rambo-wannabe aggressive behavior. Too many really do believe the more firearms they own, the tougher they are. It's dangerous thinking.

You just keep repeating what you saw on TV. We're actual gun owners, not a bunch of liberals snapping towels in the locker room. When you describe "gun owners" we know you're full of shit

 

[kaz]

You're trying to help by letting us know that as long as we're reasonable and we don't think guns are actually a protected right then we won't lose them entirely. Hmm. Thanks for that "help"

Know your enemy. It's wise to begin understanding how most Anti-Gun folks think. Most are not Gun-Grabber zealots. Most are reasonable people who just fear guns. And sadly, too many gun owners are obsessed aggressive kooks. They're giving people good reason to fear em.

Many gun owners do approach guns & ammo the way drug addicts approach drugs. It's disturbing behavior. It creeps out average people who aren't into firearms. It's a good idea to understand perception. It helps the cause.

So again, somehow we're supposed to be apologists for gun nuts, but gays you don't call to hold that standard

The subject of the thread isn't about gays. That's another issue. But seriously, it would be wise to begin understanding how most Anti-Gun folks think. Ignoring it, will only hurt the cause.

Intellectual consistency is clearly relevant whether you want it to be or not, it shows whether your standard is actually a standard or not. In your case it's not, you don't apply the same standard to one group (gays) you apply to another (guns).

[If you're obsessed with guns & ammo, you probably do have a problem. You should chill out and find another hobby. It's those kind of gun owners who are pushing more people into the Gun-Grabber camp.

Thanks for your concern over my feelings, girlfriend. I'll let you know if I need a hug. Just so you know, you have no idea how I feel and I don't care if you did, so I'd just not worry about it.

So again, somehow gun nuts are the problem of mainstream American gun owners. But apparently gay wackos are not the problem of other gays. Got it

Glad i could help.

Yeah, I fell better now, thanks for caring

 

[kaz]

The subject of the thread isn't about gays.

No. It's your inconsistency.

It's not that either. And seeing the other side's view is good for the cause. Ignoring it, will destroy the cause.

That makes no sense. They aren't changing their view and they don't have the legitimate right to deny us Constitutional rights. Why do we need to understand our oppressors?

Being a gun-obsessed asshole won't help the cause. It'll only hurt it.

So we're assholes while the anti-gun crowd are just concerned citizens, but you're on our side. Thanks, that is so reassuring

 

[Wry Catcher]

Another stupid comment. Are you channeling M14 and 2aguy?

It's not like you'll address the question in my OP to facilitate an actual discussion

That's another lie. When did you stop beating your wife?

LOL, it always cracks me up how effective liberals are a committing logical fallacies and how terrible you are at identifying them

Prove it! I've been attacked but no one has provided a rebuttal to my arguments.

This is, of course, nothing but poo as I have, personally, soundly rebutted every argument you've made.
Disagree?
There's a link in my sig that allows you to continue the argument you whined and pleaded for but ran away from once you got it.

I not only disagree, I find your arrogance hysterically funny - your are either challenged by reality or one of those liars who denies they ever put their hand in the cookie jar, even when shown a photo of them with their hand in the cookie jar.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The subject of the thread isn't about gays.

No. It's your inconsistency.

It's not that either. And seeing the other side's view is good for the cause. Ignoring it, will destroy the cause.

That makes no sense. They aren't changing their view and they don't have the legitimate right to deny us Constitutional rights. Why do we need to understand our oppressors?

Being a gun-obsessed asshole won't help the cause. It'll only hurt it.

So we're assholes while the anti-gun crowd are just concerned citizens, but you're on our side. Thanks, that is so reassuring

No, "we're" is again a lie. Never have I called all gun owners assholes, only assholes like you and M14.

 

[paulitician]

Hey, y'all wanna be aggressive obsessive gun nuts, so be it.

Your inconsistency on this matter is noted.
Thank you.

Just trying to enlighten you on how average people who aren't into the firearm thing see things. Honestly, too many people into guns do behave aggressively and obsessively. I've witnessed the behavior on many occasions. They behave like angry drug addicts demanding a fix.

Most gun owners don't understand that perception is everything. Gun owners need to watch their behavior. Because they are being observed. The Gun-Grabbers are looking for any excuse to grab em. And unfortunately, many gun owners are giving them more excuses. Curb the aggression and obsession, or else. Just stating reality.

Must be where you live because I've never seen anything like that. I own guns as do many of my friends and some family members. I know people who are really into guns, but their personality is no different than those who are into coin collecting, buying electric guitars, fascination of cars or even collecting baseball cards.

Many who own several guns, do seem to exhibit aggression and bravado. That behavior scares people who aren't into firearms. I own guns and have been in the gun selling business. So i've been around a lot of gun owners.

Most are ok, but many do exhibit a Rambo-wannabe aggressive behavior. Too many really do believe the more firearms they own, the tougher they are. It's dangerous thinking.

You just keep repeating what you saw on TV. We're actual gun owners, not a bunch of liberals snapping towels in the locker room. When you describe "gun owners" we know you're full of shit

I know gun owners pretty well. I'm a gun owner, and i sold guns for a time. Like i said, most are fine but there are a lot of aggressive obsessive loons out there. I've dealt with many over the years. I got to a point where i did have to question whether or not many of em should have guns. That's when i got out of the gun selling business.

You'll know if you're a gun addict, when or if buying a gun or ammo begins to feel like a drug fix. I encountered hundreds of kooks who had to have their guns & ammo as badly as drug addicts have to have their drugs. And those people do scare average people who don't get the firearm thing. I'm just saying you need to start seeing the whole picture.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Hey, here's some more data, sure to make some crazier.


Study Shows ‘More Guns, More Crime': States With Lax Gun Laws Have More Gun Violence

Show me statistics for say, Burlington, Vermont and Chicago Illinois.

Others, please consider this is the same argument the dumber ones who deny climate change use.

So I show you that city in a state with virtually no gun control has 2 murders/100,000 people and a state with very stringent gun control has 15/100,000 and you bring up global warming.... No argument? I thought not.
Aside from the obvious difference in total population which is taken into account by showing murders/100,000, what else can you tell me about demographics?

I'm so sorry, my comment was way over your head. Silly of me to think you might understand.

I've posted several links above, if you're curious (and therefore not willfully ignorant) you can find all my posts on this thread and the proof that M14 and KAZ are liars, 2aguy is retarded, and the fact I'm not opposed to the Second Amendment, per se, only in the manner Kaz, M14 and the gun lobby have expanded it.

 

[Ernie S.]

Describe these people you call obsessed? I described myself. Am I one of them?

How would you describe obsessed? Do you need a 100 guns?

Am I a collector? Do I sell guns? Does having 100 acres of property make me obsessed? DEFINE OBSESSED!

 

[Ernie S.]

Hey, here's some more data, sure to make some crazier.


Study Shows ‘More Guns, More Crime': States With Lax Gun Laws Have More Gun Violence

Show me statistics for say, Burlington, Vermont and Chicago Illinois.

Others, please consider this is the same argument the dumber ones who deny climate change use.

So I show you that city in a state with virtually no gun control has 2 murders/100,000 people and a state with very stringent gun control has 15/100,000 and you bring up global warming.... No argument? I thought not.
Aside from the obvious difference in total population which is taken into account by showing murders/100,000, what else can you tell me about demographics?

I'm so sorry, my comment was way over your head. Silly of me to think you might understand.

I've posted several links above, if you're curious (and therefore not willfully ignorant) you can find all my posts on this thread and the proof that M14 and KAZ are liars, 2aguy is retarded, and the fact I'm not opposed to the Second Amendment, per se, only in the manner Kaz, M14 and the gun lobby have expanded it.

Yet you refuse to answer the question posed. Silly of me to expect intellectual honesty from you.