Kill The Profit Motive And You Kill Modern Medical Advances And Prosperity

[RDD_1210]

Duh numb nutz. And you think adding a screwed up socialist system (obuma care) on top of another screwed up socialist system (redistributed ER costs) is gonna fix the other socialist system?

Nope, but at least everyone can partake in our screwed up system now.

No they can't. Fewer people have insurance now than before Obamacare took effect.

Do you even bother to read the news?

False. As usual. Have you ever told the truth with anything?

 

[RDD_1210]

Wrong, asshole. No insurance company was willing to offer me a policy for any price. They simply declined to cover me. You're obviously a fucking idiot who doesn't know the facts of reality.

Furthermore, people who don't qualify for a subsidy cannot afford to pay $1000/month for insurance and pay a $10,000 deductible. Such "insurance" is almost worthless. Why do you think so many people are complaining about losing their old plans?

The reason our healthcare system is so "bloated" is because of all the government regulations that drive up costs. Just consider the fact that if you want to build a new hospital in many cities you have to get what they call a "Certificate of Need." That means you have to get the approval of some committee before you can build. Whose on the committee? It's compose of the directors of all the other hospitals in the area. What do you think the odds are of such committees granting a "Certificate of need?" That's one major reason that staying in a hospital is so expensive. The uninsured patient issue is minor compared to that.

LOL. Of course no insurance company wanted to insure you. You had a preexisting condition. And thats the point. Before insurance companies could deny you. Now they can't. You are living proof of the positive effects of this legislation. Thanks for pointing that out.

You just got done saying that no one is going to get sick and then wait 8 months to get insurance, but I had diabetes for years before I got insurance, so you're obviously a fucking moron who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

And sure, government bloats the shit out of things, but to act like government is THE cause of bloated costs is ridiculous. There are PLENTY of other systems out there that have way more government involvement and cost a fraction of what we pay here.

Like what?

Have you had enough of a beating yet? Keep responding if you'd like more.

You're like the black knight in that Monty Python skit. Your arms and legs have been hacked off, but you're still eager for a fight.

I said no one rational would wait 10 months for treatment. You are a racist and are way beyond anything that would be considered rational.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Europe has one form of socialized medicine. We have another. We have the NAZI version of socialism.

The Affordable Care Act is not socialized medicine.

The Nazis were not socialists. In fact they were on the opposite political spectrum from socialism...kind of like you.

You need to crack some history and political science textbooks...maybe you won't appear to be so ignorant.

>> The Affordable Care Act is not socialized medicine.

Yes it is.

>> The Nazis were not socialists. In fact they were on the opposite political spectrum from socialism...kind of like you.

Wrong.

The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly known in English as the Nazi Party, was a political party in Germany active between 1920 and 1945. Its predecessor, the German Workers' Party (DAP), existed from 1919 to 1920. The term Nazi is German and stems from Nationalsozialist, due to the pronunciation of Latin -tion- as -tsion- in German (rather than -shon- as it is in English), with German Z being pronounced as 'ts'.

(See: Nazi Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

>> You need to crack some history and political science textbooks...maybe you won't appear to be so ignorant.

Perhaps you need to take your own advice.

The Nazis were socialists in name only.

They used socialism in their name to appeal to working class people, but they were the exact opposite of socialist. This word game influenced George Orwell's famous novel 1984.

According to William Shirer, author of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Hitler was embarrassed by the 2 scant references to socialism in the Nazi party platform.

Hitler outlawed all labor unions and executed all labor leaders. He allowed business owners to set any rules they wanted as long as they paid tribute to him. This is the exact opposite of socialism.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Wrong, moron. In the first place, most of the claims about the origin of these inventions is not correct. Take Ultrasound. It was invented in the United States, not Austria or Scotland. Austria had nothing to do with it, and researchers in Scotland only made some improvements long after the original invention.

Fetal ultrasound was first used in Scotland well after socialized medicine became established there.

The History of Fetal Ultrasound | Pregnancy Imaging | LiveScience

They were the ones who invented its use for fetal care.

Ultrasound was invented in the USA. End of story.

Adopting it for fetal care is a no-brainer.

A no brainer invented in a country with socialized medicine.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

The article is horseshit. None of the statistics mentioned measure the quality of healthcare. They measure the health of Americans, who are the fattest people in the world. Diabetes in America is endemic because we are so overweight. That alone will result in a drastic decrease in health. Heart disease is also a result of being overweight.

All the other measures have to do with infant mortality, and the way we measure it doesn't compare with the way European countries measure it. The main factors affecting early infant survival are birth weight and prematurity. The way that these factors are reported — and how such babies are treated statistically — tells a different story than what the numbers reveal.

Low birth weight infants are not counted against the “live birth” statistics for many countries reporting low infant mortality rates.

According to the way statistics are calculated in Canada, Germany, and Austria, a premature baby weighing <500g is not considered a living child.

But in the U.S., such very low birth weight babies are considered live births. The mortality rate of such babies — considered “unsalvageable” outside of the U.S. and therefore never alive — is extraordinarily high; up to 869 per 1,000 in the first month of life alone. This skews U.S. infant mortality statistics.

JAMA is a decidedly left-wing journal. It has an agenda to push. It doesn't care about the fact.

The health of Americans doesn't = the health care they receive.

That's your rebuttal? Are you kidding?

Life expectency is included in the statistics. Life expectency is the most important measure of the quality of health care. The U.S. lags far behind other countries.

According to the way statistics are calculated in Canada, Germany, and Austria, a premature baby weighing <500g is not considered a living child

Link the above statement or I call horseshit.

"Life expectency [sic] is the most important measure of the quality of health care"? According to whom? What proof do you have of THAT? Some leftist pinhead in the government or the UN telling you so? Do you have any idea of just how little effect healthcare systems in first-world countries have on life "expectency"? Or how much of the life "expectency" statistic for any given country involves things that have NOTHING to do with the healthcare system?

No, of course you don't. You're just a talking parrot, squawking repetitions from Obama's shoulder. Polly wanna cracker?

How long you live?

What better measure of health care could there be than that?

 

[bripat9643]

Fetal ultrasound was first used in Scotland well after socialized medicine became established there.

The History of Fetal Ultrasound | Pregnancy Imaging | LiveScience

They were the ones who invented its use for fetal care.

Ultrasound was invented in the USA. End of story.

Adopting it for fetal care is a no-brainer.

A no brainer invented in a country with socialized medicine.

The US had socialized medicine in 1940? Or are you talking about the trivial innovation of using it for fetal care?

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Europe has one form of socialized medicine. We have another. We have the NAZI version of socialism.

The Affordable Care Act is not socialized medicine.

It sure as hell is.

The Nazis were not socialists. In fact they were on the opposite political spectrum from socialism...kind of like you.

The Nazis were socialists. They were left-wingers. This debate has been carried on ad nauseum ever since I've been a member of this forum, and your side always gets creamed.

You need to crack some history and political science textbooks...maybe you won't appear to be so ignorant.

Try reading actual history rather than left-wing propaganda.

It's not propaganda. It's facts.

Hitler outlawed labor unions and executed all labor leaders. He allowed businessmen to set all the worker's rules. Would a socialist do that?

*********

The Affordable Care Act was mostly written by lobbyists for insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies. This fact alone debunks your entire thread.

They would not write rules and regulations that would stifle their own profits.

In fact, since the ACA has passed, the stock value of insurance, hospital, and pharmaceuticals has increased. This fact also debunks your entire thread.

You are debunked. Your point is destroyed.

You need to sit down and shut up.

 

[Smilodonfatalis]

Ultrasound was invented in the USA. End of story.

Adopting it for fetal care is a no-brainer.

A no brainer invented in a country with socialized medicine.

The US had socialized medicine in 1940? Or are you talking about the trivial innovation of using it for fetal care?

Scotland had socialized medicine when it was first used for that purpose.

Try telling a gynecologist that using ultrasound to look at fetal development is trivial, you stupid shithead.

 

[The Rabbi]

[


Yeah, and you'll pay more having a preexisting condition, but at least you can get insurance. And that's certainly better than paying for everything out of pocket in our bloated cost healthcare system.

Once again you've exposed you're ignorant on yet another subject.

Wow way to ignroe what he wrote. His choice was not no coverage. His chocie was to find a job that offered insurance.
In any case, why do you suppose he could not get health insurance under the old system? And please dont say no insurer was willing to take the risk. that just exposes your abject ignorance.

No insurer was willing to take the risk. Insurances companies are designed to make profit and you don't profit when you insure higher risk people.

You know this because?
Because the truth is that given a big enough premium he could have gotten insurance. But states rule on policies and premiums and none of them would have approved a plan like that.
Of course understanding that would require understanding how insurance works and you've demonstrated ignorance there time and again.

 

[bripat9643]

Nope, but at least everyone can partake in our screwed up system now.

No they can't. Fewer people have insurance now than before Obamacare took effect.

Do you even bother to read the news?

False. As usual. Have you ever told the truth with anything?

It's an irrefutable fact. 5 million people recieved cancellation notices from their insurance companies. Only 1 million signed up for Obamacare.

 

[bripat9643]

A no brainer invented in a country with socialized medicine.

The US had socialized medicine in 1940? Or are you talking about the trivial innovation of using it for fetal care?

Scotland had socialized medicine when it was first used for that purpose.

Try telling a gynecologist that using ultrasound to look at fetal development is trivial, you stupid shithead.

I said it's a trivial innovation, douche nozzle. I didn't say it wasn't a useful device. It didn't take any great leap in technology to apply the device to fetal monitoring.

The bottom line is that Americans invented the technology. The Scots simply found a new use for it.

 

[RKMBrown]

The Affordable Care Act is not socialized medicine.

The Nazis were not socialists. In fact they were on the opposite political spectrum from socialism...kind of like you.

You need to crack some history and political science textbooks...maybe you won't appear to be so ignorant.

>> The Affordable Care Act is not socialized medicine.

Yes it is.

>> The Nazis were not socialists. In fact they were on the opposite political spectrum from socialism...kind of like you.

Wrong.

The National Socialist German Workers' Party, commonly known in English as the Nazi Party, was a political party in Germany active between 1920 and 1945. Its predecessor, the German Workers' Party (DAP), existed from 1919 to 1920. The term Nazi is German and stems from Nationalsozialist, due to the pronunciation of Latin -tion- as -tsion- in German (rather than -shon- as it is in English), with German Z being pronounced as 'ts'.

(See: Nazi Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

>> You need to crack some history and political science textbooks...maybe you won't appear to be so ignorant.

Perhaps you need to take your own advice.

The Nazis were socialists in name only.

They used socialism in their name to appeal to working class people, but they were the exact opposite of socialist. This word game influenced George Orwell's famous novel 1984.

According to William Shirer, author of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Hitler was embarrassed by the 2 scant references to socialism in the Nazi party platform.

Hitler outlawed all labor unions and executed all labor leaders. He allowed business owners to set any rules they wanted as long as they paid tribute to him. This is the exact opposite of socialism.

IOW they "started" out as socialists then Hitler took over killed the unions and union leaders and enacted a facist dictatorship. And we are supposed to believe the democrats like Obama are not doing the same acts that a dictator would? It's only a dictatorship if they punish everyone that does not pull the line? never mind they are doing that already. It's not a dictatorship unless they are killing citizens without trial? never mind they are doing that already. It's not ok unless they are vilifying an entire class of people? never mind they are doing that already. Other than the extermination of the Jews how are the democrats different than the nazis?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.
I just listened to Ann Coulter talk for about 7 minutes on Mark Simone.
She's has the amazing gift of saying many words that contain zero content.

She also says many things that skewer libs right through their hypocrisy bone.

That's why libturds like you hate her so intensely.

Great! What does she say that I haven't heard from her on Fox or CTR?
"The unemployed don't look for work because they like their Unemployment Insurance."
(Sure, doesn't EVERYONE want a 60-80% pay cut and lose everything that have?)
Yes, it took her 7 minutes to say that sentence...THAT SENTENCE.
Absolutely nothing else of content.
If you worship her, you're an ignoramus.

If you expect anyone to believe the BS you're posting here, you are an ignorANUS.

 

[bripat9643]

The Affordable Care Act is not socialized medicine.

It sure as hell is.



The Nazis were socialists. They were left-wingers. This debate has been carried on ad nauseum ever since I've been a member of this forum, and your side always gets creamed.

You need to crack some history and political science textbooks...maybe you won't appear to be so ignorant.

Try reading actual history rather than left-wing propaganda.

It's not propaganda. It's facts.

Hitler outlawed labor unions and executed all labor leaders. He allowed businessmen to set all the worker's rules. Would a socialist do that?

You're obviously incapable of committing logic.

Stalin arrested all the labor leaders and executed them or sent them off to the Gulag. Independent labor unions were all abolished and only state controlled "labor unions" were allowed. They were labor unions in name only.

Was Stalin a right-winger?

The Affordable Care Act was mostly written by lobbyists for insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies. This fact alone debunks your entire thread.

They would not write rules and regulations that would stifle their own profits.

Even if it were a fact, how would it debunk this thread? What makes you think insurance companies, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies are interested in competing in the market to make a profit?

What they get under Obamacare aren't properly called "profit." They are simply a government guaranteed surplus. Profits are what a company earns when it competes in the market and produces a product in demand by consumers. Any money earned by a company whose customers are compelled to buy their product can't properly be labeled a "profit" in the economic sense.

In fact, since the ACA has passed, the stock value of insurance, hospital, and pharmaceuticals has increased. This fact also debunks your entire thread.

You are debunked. Your point is destroyed.

You need to sit down and shut up.

It's only a matter of time until the insurance companies are all bankrupt.

You debunked nothing.

 

[RDD_1210]

It sure as hell is.



The Nazis were socialists. They were left-wingers. This debate has been carried on ad nauseum ever since I've been a member of this forum, and your side always gets creamed.



Try reading actual history rather than left-wing propaganda.

It's not propaganda. It's facts.

Hitler outlawed labor unions and executed all labor leaders. He allowed businessmen to set all the worker's rules. Would a socialist do that?

You're obviously incapable of committing logic.

Stalin arrested all the labor leaders and executed them or sent them off to the Gulag. Independent labor unions were all abolished and only state controlled "labor unions" were allowed. They were labor unions in name only.

Was Stalin a right-winger?

The Affordable Care Act was mostly written by lobbyists for insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies. This fact alone debunks your entire thread.

They would not write rules and regulations that would stifle their own profits.

Even if it were a fact, how would it debunk this thread? What makes you think insurance companies, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies are interested in competing in the market to make a profit?

What they get under Obamacare aren't properly called "profit." They are simply a government guaranteed surplus. Profits are what a company earns when it competes in the market and produces a product in demand by consumers. Any money earned by a company whose customers are compelled to buy their product can't properly be labeled a "profit" in the economic sense.

In fact, since the ACA has passed, the stock value of insurance, hospital, and pharmaceuticals has increased. This fact also debunks your entire thread.

You are debunked. Your point is destroyed.

You need to sit down and shut up.

It's only a matter of time until the insurance companies are all bankrupt.

You debunked nothing.

You just took talking out of your ass to a whole new level. Brilliant!

I particularly loved how you separated the type of profit insurance companies are making now and how it's not real profit. You are a true master of your craft.... Which happens to be bullshitting.

 

[RDD_1210]

Wow way to ignroe what he wrote. His choice was not no coverage. His chocie was to find a job that offered insurance.
In any case, why do you suppose he could not get health insurance under the old system? And please dont say no insurer was willing to take the risk. that just exposes your abject ignorance.

No insurer was willing to take the risk. Insurances companies are designed to make profit and you don't profit when you insure higher risk people.

You know this because?
Because the truth is that given a big enough premium he could have gotten insurance. But states rule on policies and premiums and none of them would have approved a plan like that.
Of course understanding that would require understanding how insurance works and you've demonstrated ignorance there time and again.

Because he just told us... Try and keep up.

 

[bripat9643]

It's not propaganda. It's facts.

Hitler outlawed labor unions and executed all labor leaders. He allowed businessmen to set all the worker's rules. Would a socialist do that?

You're obviously incapable of committing logic.

Stalin arrested all the labor leaders and executed them or sent them off to the Gulag. Independent labor unions were all abolished and only state controlled "labor unions" were allowed. They were labor unions in name only.

Was Stalin a right-winger?



Even if it were a fact, how would it debunk this thread? What makes you think insurance companies, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies are interested in competing in the market to make a profit?

What they get under Obamacare aren't properly called "profit." They are simply a government guaranteed surplus. Profits are what a company earns when it competes in the market and produces a product in demand by consumers. Any money earned by a company whose customers are compelled to buy their product can't properly be labeled a "profit" in the economic sense.

In fact, since the ACA has passed, the stock value of insurance, hospital, and pharmaceuticals has increased. This fact also debunks your entire thread.

You are debunked. Your point is destroyed.

You need to sit down and shut up.

It's only a matter of time until the insurance companies are all bankrupt.

You debunked nothing.

You just took talking out of your ass to a whole new level. Brilliant!

I particularly loved how you separated the type of profit insurance companies are making now and how it's not real profit. You are a true master of your craft.... Which happens to be bullshitting.

I can't help it if you're too big of a dumb ass to understand the economic definition of "profit."

 

[thereisnospoon]

Here's what worries me the most about Obamacare. Socialized medicine means the end of all new wonder drugs and miracle medical treatments. No more breakthroughs like artificial joints, MRI machines, artificial hearts, artificial livers, Leukemia cures, etc.. The profit motive is what brought these innovations into existence. Obamacare will put an end to it.

Redirector

One of the hallmarks of socialism is its hostility toward and targeting for elimination of the “bourgeoisie”–the prosperous middle class, who pose an existential threat to the socialists/statists, in large part due to their relative economic autonomy. The fact that they are mostly capable of self-sufficiency and of running their own lives means they neither need nor want big-government central-planners micromanaging their every decision, and therefore the middle class must be decimated by the likes of Obama–even while Obama and his Democrat fellow-travelers hypocritically, falsely speak of “protecting the middle class,” “fighting for the middle class,” and “growing the middle class” in their cynical ploy to get middle class people to vote for more doomed Democrat policies.

Fortunately, some of the biggest lies of Obama and his party have now been realized by millions to be what they are–outright lies.

What is yet unfortunate is that the socialists have still largely succeeded in convincing so many that it is the profit motive of capitalism which is to blame for the alleged awfulness of income inequality, and the alleged awfulness of various other disparate outcomes upon which envy and class-conflict are based, that they think it is a viable campaign strategy for the upcoming mid-term elections.

And so, it is the same old badmouthing and attempt to eliminate the profit motive, which Obama and his fellow travelers have deployed in their destruction of our health care system–the abject economic horror known as Obamacare.

Yet that same profit motive is what has given modern medicine and pharmacology such marvelous breakthroughs over the last several decades, which is and has been in Obama’s cross hairs all along.

Socialized medicine regimes only barely limp along in other Western, developed economies such as Canada, Sweden, and Great Britain, with just enough marginally-satisfied customers to keep their populations from revolt (not to mention that numerous dead and dying recipients of inferior medical care delivery really can’t make much of a political peep, can they now?) only because the profit motive has still been somewhat alive in America in order to drive the innovations enjoyed by patients in the more socialist countries–countries which ride along on the coattails of our advances and revolutionary medical developments!

It is mainly due to the existence of the remnants of capitalism, and the research, development, and marketing activities of extremely competitive, profit-seeking enterprises (mostly here in the United States and wherever making a profit is still allowed), which have produced the miracle drugs and the space-age, mind-boggling medical technologies enjoyed by citizens throughout not only the developed world, but increasingly throughout the emerging economies and the third-world, even more and more.​

Obamacare is not socialized medicine.

You don't even know what socialized medicine is.

You are too ignorant to post about this topic.

Canada, Great Britain, and Sweden do have socialized medicine and they all have higher quality medical care than the U.S. according to the Journal of the American Medical Society--a group that is against socialized medicine.

Obamacare is a precursor to single payer.

 

[oreo]

Kill the profit motive you might as well be living and working in Russia--where a decade ago--no body worked--they sat around and drank Vodka all day long--and finally it got so bad they actually took Vodka off of the shelves for sale--LOL

 

[The Rabbi]

No insurer was willing to take the risk. Insurances companies are designed to make profit and you don't profit when you insure higher risk people.

You know this because?
Because the truth is that given a big enough premium he could have gotten insurance. But states rule on policies and premiums and none of them would have approved a plan like that.
Of course understanding that would require understanding how insurance works and you've demonstrated ignorance there time and again.

Because he just told us... Try and keep up.

So now he's the oracle of truth? You are a dunce and some.
The truth is that with a big enough premium and enough data points anything is insurable. The problem is the state commisioners set policy terms and premiums (or they used to). So once again the dead hand of gov't is to blame, not private enterprise.