Liberals, let's make a deal - Guns & Abortion

[NYcarbineer]

Irrelevant to the question unless you're arguing some Constitutional rights are more important to others regarding the law. The question is to liberals who believe abortion is a Constitutional right and guns are actually in the Bill of Rights. Yet they are in favor of severely restricting guns, and I'm showing by their non-responsive answers that they aren't OK with that for rights they support.

I am consistent. I am pro-choice, but I consider making up Constitutional rights to be more dangerous than not because what the government can grant, it can take away.

The Constitution was written by government. Everything in it in regards to rights was granted by the government.

Have you actually read the Bill of Rights?

The rights exist separate from government.

The Bill of rights protects them from government intrusion.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
​

Rights do not exist separate from government, except perhaps in your head.

When a state passes a law that appears to violate the 2nd amendment, where does one go for a remedy?

To God? To the big arena of intangible ideas in the clouds?

NO. One goes to the GOVERNMENT. One RELIES on the government.

 

[whitehall]

Obviously you thought it through pretty well Kaz. The problem is that the left is scrambling to find some Huffington post to think for them so they don't have to think it through.

 

[Missourian]

The Constitution was written by government. Everything in it in regards to rights was granted by the government.

Have you actually read the Bill of Rights?

The rights exist separate from government.

The Bill of rights protects them from government intrusion.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
​

Rights do not exist separate from government, except perhaps in your head.

When a state passes a law that appears to violate the 2nd amendment, where does one go for a remedy?

To God? To the big arena of intangible ideas in the clouds?

NO. One goes to the GOVERNMENT. One RELIES on the government.

They it should be easy for you to find the proclamation, codification or law where the government grants you rights.

I'll wait.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Before any ‘deal’ can be struck, conservatives must first acknowledge Griswold/Roe/Casey as settled and accepted case law, and stop their attempts to have that case law overturned.

Liberals accept Heller/McDonald as settled and accepted case law, and are making no attempt to have that case law overturned. President Obama himself acknowledged Heller as settled case law when the ruling was announced, and has never advocated the overturning of the ruling. His opponent in 2012, however, ran on a platform to seek to have Roe overturned and privacy rights extinguished.

Once conservatives accept and respect the right to privacy concerning abortion, a good faith dialogue can then be entered into as to appropriate regulation of both guns and abortion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Have you actually read the Bill of Rights?

The rights exist separate from government.

The Bill of rights protects them from government intrusion.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
​

Rights do not exist separate from government, except perhaps in your head.

When a state passes a law that appears to violate the 2nd amendment, where does one go for a remedy?

To God? To the big arena of intangible ideas in the clouds?

NO. One goes to the GOVERNMENT. One RELIES on the government.

They it should be easy for you to find the proclamation, codification or law where the government grants you rights.

I'll wait.

You just listed a good many of them. The Constitution is the supreme LAW of the land.

Why do people tell me that owning is gun is a right, but driving is a privilege,

and that they know that because the right to own a gun is written in the Constitution, and the right to drive isn't???

 

[NYcarbineer]

Obviously you thought it through pretty well Kaz. The problem is that the left is scrambling to find some Huffington post to think for them so they don't have to think it through.

kaz thinks that you should have to have a license to get an abortion because in some places you have to have a license to own a gun.

That is unadulterated stupidity.

 

[Missourian]

Rights do not exist separate from government, except perhaps in your head.

When a state passes a law that appears to violate the 2nd amendment, where does one go for a remedy?

To God? To the big arena of intangible ideas in the clouds?

NO. One goes to the GOVERNMENT. One RELIES on the government.

They it should be easy for you to find the proclamation, codification or law where the government grants you rights.

I'll wait.

You just listed a good many of them. The Constitution is the supreme LAW of the land.

Why do people tell me that owning is gun is a right, but driving is a privilege,

and that they know that because the right to own a gun is written in the Constitution, and the right to drive isn't???

This is where it pays to be an originalist...Federalist No. 84 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[candycorn]

So, abortion is a "Constitutional right." Guns are in the Bill of Rights. So, let's apply things that are hunky dory for you with guns to abortion.

- Let's heavily tax abortions
- Let's make people apply for a permit from government to get one
- Let's let government deny the right to get one to people who are unstable in any way and can't rationally make the choice for themselves.
- Let's allow cities and States who don't want them to just ban them outright.

So what do you say? Can all Constitutional rights be subject to your rules on guns?

Another salvo on the war on women. I guess getting your ass handed to you in elections is fun????

Yet another point you missed. I guess you don't get tired of not grasping discussions.

I get your point. Yours is a black and white world. So you offer up a right wing sacred cow in exchange for a left wing sacred cow.

Politically, the idea is cyanide for conservatives since you're not only alienating women but anyone who has more than one issue outside of gun rights.

I guess you dont get tired of losing general elections.

 

[NYcarbineer]

They it should be easy for you to find the proclamation, codification or law where the government grants you rights.

I'll wait.

You just listed a good many of them. The Constitution is the supreme LAW of the land.

Why do people tell me that owning is gun is a right, but driving is a privilege,

and that they know that because the right to own a gun is written in the Constitution, and the right to drive isn't???

This is where it pays to be an originalist...Federalist No. 84 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your link can't be relevant to my point. I gave you the list of rights GRANTED by the government.

 

[Spoonman]

The difference being abortion laws affect no one but the person having the abortion, Gun laws affect "everyone"

Irrelevant to the question unless you're arguing some Constitutional rights are more important to others regarding the law. The question is to liberals who believe abortion is a Constitutional right and guns are actually in the Bill of Rights. Yet they are in favor of severely restricting guns, and I'm showing by their non-responsive answers that they aren't OK with that for rights they support.

I am consistent. I am pro-choice, but I consider making up Constitutional rights to be more dangerous than not because what the government can grant, it can take away.

The Constitution was written by government. Everything in it in regards to rights was granted by the government.

written by government to protect the citizens from government. see the founders knew what government was capable of. the ydisrupted their lives, left their homes and came to a new world to escape that. their intent ws to protect future generations from the persecution by government they experienced. the same persecution by government our government is trying to inflict on us today. the same persecution you liberals are willing to allow them to inflict on us, as long as they are democrats

 

[kaz]

Irrelevant to the question unless you're arguing some Constitutional rights are more important to others regarding the law. The question is to liberals who believe abortion is a Constitutional right and guns are actually in the Bill of Rights. Yet they are in favor of severely restricting guns, and I'm showing by their non-responsive answers that they aren't OK with that for rights they support.

I am consistent. I am pro-choice, but I consider making up Constitutional rights to be more dangerous than not because what the government can grant, it can take away.

The Constitution was written by government. Everything in it in regards to rights was granted by the government.

written by government to protect the citizens from government. see the founders knew what government was capable of. the ydisrupted their lives, left their homes and came to a new world to escape that. their intent ws to protect future generations from the persecution by government they experienced. the same persecution by government our government is trying to inflict on us today. the same persecution you liberals are willing to allow them to inflict on us, as long as they are democrats

They were representatives of the States they lived in who were sent to create a Federal government which was limited in power to protect the citizens of their State from tyranny. It didn't work.

 

[Pete7469]

I've got a better idea, everyone who wants a gun can have one, everyone who wants an abortion can have one.

Eitherway we end up with less liberals.

 

[Wry Catcher]

So, abortion is a "Constitutional right." Guns are in the Bill of Rights. So, let's apply things that are hunky dory for you with guns to abortion.

- Let's heavily tax abortions
- Let's make people apply for a permit from government to get one
- Let's let government deny the right to get one to people who are unstable in any way and can't rationally make the choice for themselves.
- Let's allow cities and States who don't want them to just ban them outright.

So what do you say? Can all Constitutional rights be subject to your rules on guns?

You are a loony tune, Kaz. Let's consider another way to restrict abortions and gun violence, shall we?

Since you clearly value the potential of the unborn and their right to life why not extend that value you hold to children who live outside of their mother's womb?

Let's first provide free contraception to all citizens of child bearing age, yep that means minors too. Let's teach sex education at age appropriate levels in the public schools along with parenting skills and responsibilities while providing each child with a lifetime of free health care, no matter the status of their physical or mental health or disability.

Next, let's license anyone who wants to own, possess or have in his or her custody or control a gun. Before getting said gun, perspective buyers will need to be interviewed and shown films and still pictures of children, women and men who died from gunshots. Graphic photo's which include - the when technology has been developed - the smell of some of the victims discovered days or weeks after their demise.

During this process the prospective gun buyer will be evaluated for their mental stability in re their reaction to such carnage. Penile plethysmography will be used to weed out males who become sexually aroused and of course they will be tattooed with an "R", an "S" or an "M" on their forehead depending on the photo's which caused the reaction ("R" = potential rapist; "S" = Serial Killer, and "M" = potential molester).

 

[usr]

No need to go to the personal insults, if you have a differing opinion, discuss it without insult. The comparision is a fair comparision.

So, abortion is a "Constitutional right." Guns are in the Bill of Rights. So, let's apply things that are hunky dory for you with guns to abortion.

- Let's heavily tax abortions
- Let's make people apply for a permit from government to get one
- Let's let government deny the right to get one to people who are unstable in any way and can't rationally make the choice for themselves.
- Let's allow cities and States who don't want them to just ban them outright.

So what do you say? Can all Constitutional rights be subject to your rules on guns?

The Supreme Court ruled that cities can't ban guns outright. Why in the FUCK would you compare abortion rights to gun rights and then want abortions to be able to be banned at the state level,

and not guns?

btw, you idiot, some abortions can be banned at the state level. Will you accept that for guns too?

 

[kaz]

Another salvo on the war on women. I guess getting your ass handed to you in elections is fun????

Yet another point you missed. I guess you don't get tired of not grasping discussions.

I get your point. Yours is a black and white world. So you offer up a right wing sacred cow in exchange for a left wing sacred cow.

Politically, the idea is cyanide for conservatives since you're not only alienating women but anyone who has more than one issue outside of gun rights.

I guess you dont get tired of losing general elections.

The point is actually that you don't get the point. So by not getting the point, you proved my point.

BTW, I'm pro-choice. You're completely and utterly clueless.

 

[kaz]

So, abortion is a "Constitutional right." Guns are in the Bill of Rights. So, let's apply things that are hunky dory for you with guns to abortion.

- Let's heavily tax abortions
- Let's make people apply for a permit from government to get one
- Let's let government deny the right to get one to people who are unstable in any way and can't rationally make the choice for themselves.
- Let's allow cities and States who don't want them to just ban them outright.

So what do you say? Can all Constitutional rights be subject to your rules on guns?

You are a loony tune, Kaz. Let's consider another way to restrict abortions and gun violence, shall we?

Since you clearly value the potential of the unborn and their right to life why not extend that value you hold to children who live outside of their mother's womb?

Let's first provide free contraception to all citizens of child bearing age, yep that means minors too. Let's teach sex education at age appropriate levels in the public schools along with parenting skills and responsibilities while providing each child with a lifetime of free health care, no matter the status of their physical or mental health or disability.

Next, let's license anyone who wants to own, possess or have in his or her custody or control a gun. Before getting said gun, perspective buyers will need to be interviewed and shown films and still pictures of children, women and men who died from gunshots. Graphic photo's which include - the when technology has been developed - the smell of some of the victims discovered days or weeks after their demise.

During this process the prospective gun buyer will be evaluated for their mental stability in re their reaction to such carnage. Penile plethysmography will be used to weed out males who become sexually aroused and of course they will be tattooed with an "R", an "S" or an "M" on their forehead depending on the photo's which caused the reaction ("R" = potential rapist; "S" = Serial Killer, and "M" = potential molester).

Yet another completely and utterly clueless leftist who jumps at the chance to prove it. My point was that liberals don't grasp basic logic and are hypocrites. One after another, you rush in to demonstrate it.

I'm pro-choice, homey. If you grasped the point of the discussion, that wouldn't have thrown you. You people are so clueless it would be funny if you weren't using your overt ignorance to destroy us by blindly following the lies of self serving liberal lawyers.

 

[Pete7469]

Yet another point you missed. I guess you don't get tired of not grasping discussions.

I get your point. Yours is a black and white world. So you offer up a right wing sacred cow in exchange for a left wing sacred cow.

Politically, the idea is cyanide for conservatives since you're not only alienating women but anyone who has more than one issue outside of gun rights.

I guess you dont get tired of losing general elections.

The point is actually that you don't get the point. So by not getting the point, you proved my point.

BTW, I'm pro-choice. You're completely and utterly clueless.

Bed wetters generally are clueless. If they had a clue they wouldn't exist.

 

[Caroljo]

Obviously you didn't think this through.

Well liberals say that guns kill, well so does abortion. Whats the difference?

But they don't consider a fetus a living human until they're born. THAT'S the difference to liberals.

 

[kaz]

Obviously you didn't think this through.

Well liberals say that guns kill, well so does abortion. Whats the difference?

But they don't consider a fetus a living human until they're born. THAT'S the difference to liberals.

That's not the point of this thread though.

The point of this thread is that they argue with guns that even though it's in the bill of rights, government can tax and regulate it to death.

Abortion, which they also believe is a Constitutional right, they believe government cannot put any restrictions on at all because it's a Constitutional right.

This thread's simple point is to point out their hypocrisy. And true to their nature, they keep blasting me with, duh, dar, I don't get it.

It does make me just laugh though how they are constantly claiming to be the intelligent party. Just another example of how completely clueless they are.

 

[rightwinger]

Lets limit gun shops to one per state
Lets make gun buyers watch a film on gun violence
Lets shame gun buyers as they enter the door
Lets make gun owners have a licensed doctor on hand when they fire their guns

That sounds about the same