Liz Gets Real: Single-Payer Is The Answer

[THAI EXPAT]

[
Most of the people, no, all of the people got rich in a progressive tax based society. Now you want to change the rules?

So you admit that it is progressive taxation that caused the vast disparity of income in America, Silly Bonobo?

Everyone with a brain knows a flat tax would widen the gap between rich and poor. When you guys don't pass a flat tax next month that'll be why.

And if they do pass it you'll see it won't work.

I'm curious to see their tax reform. $300 tax break for you, $300k for the rich.

I know, send my $300 back if I don't want it. Heard that in the bush era right before he doubled the debt and caused a recession.

NHS hospital waiting lists at seven-year high as 3.4m need treatment | Daily Mail Online
Hospital waiting lists at seven-year high as 3.4m need treatment: More than 6,000 forced to wait at least a year for operations

• 6,100 patients forced to wait at least a year for an operation
• In the worse cases, patients have a three year wait for treatment
• Up to one in seven hospital procedures are unnecessary, according to the medical director of NHS England

By Sophie Borland for the Daily Mail

Published: 00:31 BST, 13 July 2015 | Updated: 06:31 BST, 13 July 2015

Almost 3.4million patients are languishing on NHS waiting lists – the highest number in seven years.

They include more than 6,100 forced to wait at least a year for operations or treatment. In the worst examples the delay has been nearly three years.

The numbers are the highest since January 2008 and show the extent to which hospitals are struggling to meet the needs of the growing, ageing population.

Experts said the waits of weeks or months were extremely distressing for patients, some of whom are in considerable pain.
Many are elderly awaiting hip replacements who are now immobile and cannot leave their home without the help of relatives or carers. Figures from NHS England show the numbers of patients waiting for routine operations and other procedures stands at 3.12million.

But not all trusts report data, so officials estimate the true figure is ‘just under 3.4million’.

This is up by a third from 2010 when there were 2.5million on the lists and significantly higher than this time last year when there were 3.2million.

Separate figures from hospitals obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show that in the worst cases, patients have been made to wait almost three years for treatment.
An analysis of the figures by Rob Findlay, a renowned NHS data expert and founder of the software firm Gooroo, shows that 6,118 patients waited at least a year for treatment in the 12 months to May 2015. They include 634 who have been on the lists at least a year and are still waiting.

Of those treated last year, 924,000 waited longer than the 18-week target, including 297,000 waiting at least six months.

A Tory spokesman said: ‘The number of people waiting long periods for an operation has dramatically fallen since 2010, but we know the NHS is under pressure as our population ages, and thanks to a strong economy we’re giving it an extra £10billion to help pay for more doctors, nurses and operations.’

Katherine Murphy, chief executive of The Patients Association, said: ‘These stark statistics of patients on hospital waiting lists show that the challenge facing the NHS is even more serious than anyone could imagine.’

The figures relate to any operation or procedure that is not urgent, such as a hip replacement, hernia repair or cataracts. Although conditions aren’t considered life-threatening, they often cause severe pain, disability and loss of independence.

A spokesman for NHS England, which controls the day-to-day running of the Health Service, said: ‘In the face of ever-growing demand, we continue to make strides in cutting long waits.’

The spokesman added that the average wait for an operation was nine weeks and the number of patients waiting a year was lower compared with three years ago.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Everyone with a brain knows a flat tax would widen the gap between rich and poor. When you guys don't pass a flat tax next month that'll be why.

And if they do pass it you'll see it won't work.

I'm curious to see their tax reform. $300 tax break for you, $300k for the rich.

How could I get a $300k tax break when I don't make that much?

 

[nat4900]

The WHO ranking has been debunked ad nauseum. That's the problem with arguing healthcare with snowflakes: everything they know is fake.

Sure, because countries like Costa Rica is bribing the WHO to lie on their behalf?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The WHO can shove it.

They weight heavily on some formula for accessibility.

We are not 37th.

Not by a long shot.

What's more funny is that our "anything but homogeneous" health care system gets lumped into one big statistic.

Most of us have great care

There are some that need help.

Obama screwed up great health care for many to get that few covered.

And he didn't even get that done.

Your 20 million includes a great many who had it before.

 

[forkup]

The WHO can shove it.

They weight heavily on some formula for accessibility.

We are not 37th.

Not by a long shot.

What's more funny is that our "anything but homogeneous" health care system gets lumped into one big statistic.

Most of us have great care

There are some that need help.

Obama screwed up great health care for many to get that few covered.

And he didn't even get that done.

Your 20 million includes a great many who had it before.

-Can I ask you what you suggest the WHO should base statistics on if not formula's?
-You are not 37th? First of, 37th in what? You are for instance first in health care cost.List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
both the WHO and OECD confirm this. Both are NGO's both use different formula's because the results differ slightly
you are 30th in health care index.Health Care Index by Country 2017
and so on and so forth. The US ranks lower then most industrialised nations, of which nearly all have single payer.
-Most of you have great care? How do you know? What's your bases for comparison?
I have bases for comparison and I can tell you from personal experience that your healthcare doesn't hold a candle to mine in most measurable ways.
-Obama screwed up health care? Back that up. I don't claim for a second that nobody was worse off. I do claim that the net effect was positive. Prove me wrong?

 

[bripat9643]

The WHO can shove it.

They weight heavily on some formula for accessibility.

We are not 37th.

Not by a long shot.

What's more funny is that our "anything but homogeneous" health care system gets lumped into one big statistic.

Most of us have great care

There are some that need help.

Obama screwed up great health care for many to get that few covered.

And he didn't even get that done.

Your 20 million includes a great many who had it before.

-Can I ask you what you suggest the WHO should base statistics on if not formula's?
-You are not 37th? First of, 37th in what? You are for instance first in health care cost.List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
both the WHO and OECD confirm this. Both are NGO's both use different formula's because the results differ slightly
you are 30th in health care index.Health Care Index by Country 2017
and so on and so forth. The US ranks lower then most industrialised nations, of which nearly all have single payer.
-Most of you have great care? How do you know? What's your bases for comparison?
I have bases for comparison and I can tell you from personal experience that your healthcare doesn't hold a candle to mine in most measurable ways.
-Obama screwed up health care? Back that up. I don't claim for a second that nobody was worse off. I do claim that the net effect was positive. Prove me wrong?

Formulas are great if you use the right ones. The WHO is a communist propaganda organ that contrives formulas to justify socialism. Any conclusions drawn from their propaganda is bullshit. Turds like you don't care if it's valid so long as you can use it to con the gullible.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Now it’s time for the next step. And the next step is single payer.”

Exactly.

All Americans should have access to affordable healthcare.

No American should have to fear not being able to receive treatment for his health issues, because he might be low income, because of a job loss, or because of a serious, complex health condition.

 

[Doc1]

“Now it’s time for the next step. And the next step is single payer.”

Exactly.

All Americans should have access to affordable healthcare.

No American should have to fear not being able to receive treatment for his health issues, because he might be low income, because of a job loss, or because of a serious, complex health condition.

How ya gonna pay for it son?

 

[bripat9643]

“Now it’s time for the next step. And the next step is single payer.”

Exactly.

All Americans should have access to affordable healthcare.

No American should have to fear not being able to receive treatment for his health issues, because he might be low income, because of a job loss, or because of a serious, complex health condition.

They should all have to worry about it. That's what makes people work hard to keep their job and be productive.

 

[Markle]

Trump says Single-Payer is "too expensive" - a "dealbreaker". Bullshit. How would he know?

He sees all the places it has and is failing. Really, should be easy even for you.

Even California dumped the idea after they saw the best scenario price tag. Their entire current budget.

 

[Markle]

Republicans should work with Democrats to fix the glitches in Obamacare. Maybe Single-Payer in the near future.

Who pays and who decides who is on the death panels?

‘Death Panel’: European Court Says Terminal Baby Must Die Despite Parents Funding Extra Care
by LIAM DEACON 29 Jun 2017

A European court has ruled that the parents of a critically ill baby cannot privately pay for him to go to the United States for “experimental treatment”, and the child must stay in a British hospital to “die with dignity”.

The parents of 10-month-old Charlie Gard are reported to be “utterly distraught” after the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) denied them a final effort to save their dying son.

After losing a battle in the UK’s Supreme Court, they had appealed to the court in France to fight the decision of British doctors at Great Ormond Street Children’s Hospital, who argued the baby could not be saved in the U.S. and must “die with dignity”.

‘Death Panel’: European Court Says Terminal Baby Must Die Despite Parents Funding Extra Care - Breitbart

Why do you want these death panels here in the United States where even the parents willing and able to spend their own money are forced to watch their child die because of a decision by the government.

‘Death Panel’: European Court Says Terminal Baby Must Die Despite Parents Funding Extra Care - Breitbart

 

[Markle]

The reality is that we have to enact Medicare for everyone and everyone pays more in taxes to fund it.

Really? Check the bottom line concerning unfunded liabilities.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[Markle]

Really? Yet in Canada, the UK and a host of other nations most of which have single payer the life expectancy is higher. Life Expectancy for Countries

You don't know why either, do you? Hint, it has nothing, whatsoever, with health care.

 

[task0778]

Trump says Single-Payer is "too expensive" - a "dealbreaker". Bullshit. How would he know?

He sees all the places it has and is failing. Really, should be easy even for you.

Even California dumped the idea after they saw the best scenario price tag. Their entire current budget.

Colorado rejected SP this last election by 80%-20%, musta had a reason for that big of a margin. Vermont tried it there, it failed and they gave up on it. Why? Too expensive. I think Wisconsin considered it too for awhile, haven't done it yet. I'm sure other blue states are thinking about it too, fine by me. (I live in Texas, doubt if it'll happen here any time soon.)

 

[Markle]

So the democrats have not done enough damage with creating a government health care bill that raises premiums, reduces choices of insurance providers, fines those who DROP their insurance through the IRS by not keeping up with their mandatory insurance coverage payments, that they want MORE federal government control? Obviously liberals are either hard headed fools incapable of learning from their short coming attempts, or lacking of any common sense that they are determined to screw with health care again.

This damage also includes a net gain of over 16 million extra insured people.

Who can't get quality care or are denied certain treatments because it's government that is controlling your costs, which is the net result of both the Canadian's program as well as the NHS system.

Really? Yet in Canada, the UK and a host of other nations most of which have single payer the life expectancy is higher. Life Expectancy for Countries
While at the same time the US health care system is the most expensive.List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
The health care index. Something that ranks healthcare by purely cost benefit ranks the US at 35. The 34 ahead of them all have single payer. So please pray tell why you think the American system is superior. Btw I'm Belgian and live in a single payer country. I can give you personal examples of differences between the US (my wife is American) and the Belgian system, and I'm perfectly willing to compare.

Single payer only works for progressives and even then they have to wait for it. Keep single-payer to yourselves to yourselves leave the rest of us the fuck out...

Just goes to show how much you know. Like I said we have single payer here, I'll give you a few practical examples. I get my medicine the moment I walk into a pharmacy with a prescription not an hour later after a pharmacy tech has called the insurance company. My doctor comes to my house if I feel not capable of going to him. An ER visit costs me on average about 2 hours, I don't have to fill in paperwork and nobody ever asks me credit card information. After a surgery or when I'm elderly if needed, nurses, physical therapists, even babysitters and cleaning ladies come to my house to help out if needed. All this, although it is not free is being offered at prices so even a poor person can afford it. So tell me wich one of these services do you guys have and what's the price you pay for them?

Amazing you can afford any fine Belgian chocolates given the taxes stolen from you.

Belgian taxation:

http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/uk/taxsummaries/wwts.nsf/ID/Belgium-Individual-Taxes-on-personal-income

Belgium Personal Income Tax Rate | 1995-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar

 

[Markle]

-Can I ask you what you suggest the WHO should base statistics on if not formula's?

The study which is beloved by Progressives was done in 2000. It has not been done since because of the inaccuracies. Countries have heir own methodology in each of the categories. Since the UN greatly favors Socialism, the majority of criteria have nothing to do with the quality of care but rather what the citizens get for "free".

 

[forkup]

This damage also includes a net gain of over 16 million extra insured people.

Who can't get quality care or are denied certain treatments because it's government that is controlling your costs, which is the net result of both the Canadian's program as well as the NHS system.

Really? Yet in Canada, the UK and a host of other nations most of which have single payer the life expectancy is higher. Life Expectancy for Countries
While at the same time the US health care system is the most expensive.List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
The health care index. Something that ranks healthcare by purely cost benefit ranks the US at 35. The 34 ahead of them all have single payer. So please pray tell why you think the American system is superior. Btw I'm Belgian and live in a single payer country. I can give you personal examples of differences between the US (my wife is American) and the Belgian system, and I'm perfectly willing to compare.

Single payer only works for progressives and even then they have to wait for it. Keep single-payer to yourselves to yourselves leave the rest of us the fuck out...

Just goes to show how much you know. Like I said we have single payer here, I'll give you a few practical examples. I get my medicine the moment I walk into a pharmacy with a prescription not an hour later after a pharmacy tech has called the insurance company. My doctor comes to my house if I feel not capable of going to him. An ER visit costs me on average about 2 hours, I don't have to fill in paperwork and nobody ever asks me credit card information. After a surgery or when I'm elderly if needed, nurses, physical therapists, even babysitters and cleaning ladies come to my house to help out if needed. All this, although it is not free is being offered at prices so even a poor person can afford it. So tell me wich one of these services do you guys have and what's the price you pay for them?

Amazing you can afford any fine Belgian chocolates given the taxes stolen from you.

Belgian taxation:

http://taxsummaries.pwc.com/uk/taxsummaries/wwts.nsf/ID/Belgium-Individual-Taxes-on-personal-income

Belgium Personal Income Tax Rate | 1995-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar

I always have the same conversation with Republicans. Taxes aren't a punishment. they are one of the ways a standard of living is funded. Yes I pay a lot more in taxes. Those taxes also provide me with a lot of services, which are either unavailable or unaffordable to the average American. I'll give a practical example in the health care sector that illustrates part of why our healthcare system is cheaper. Becoming a doctor in the US costs on average about 200000 dollars in debt. Not talking Harvard just your run of the mill medical school. A medical degree here costs 550euro per year plus a couple of thousand for living expenses.Medical School in Belgium « Mind On Medicine This means that in order for it to be worth your while in the US, you as a doctor will be forced to charge considerably more. Especially considering the need for very expensive malpractice insurances. I pay more than twice your average tax rate but the costs of basic services is a lot lower. In the end we drive a nice car. Our health insurance offers way more services without costs that exclude large sections of the populace.More of us own there own house List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia. And almost none of us have to choose between having food or going to a doctor.

 

[Lakhota]

Who can't get quality care or are denied certain treatments because it's government that is controlling your costs, which is the net result of both the Canadian's program as well as the NHS system.

Really? Yet in Canada, the UK and a host of other nations most of which have single payer the life expectancy is higher. Life Expectancy for Countries
While at the same time the US health care system is the most expensive.List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
The health care index. Something that ranks healthcare by purely cost benefit ranks the US at 35. The 34 ahead of them all have single payer. So please pray tell why you think the American system is superior. Btw I'm Belgian and live in a single payer country. I can give you personal examples of differences between the US (my wife is American) and the Belgian system, and I'm perfectly willing to compare.

Single payer only works for progressives and even then they have to wait for it. Keep single-payer to yourselves to yourselves leave the rest of us the fuck out...

Just goes to show how much you know. Like I said we have single payer here, I'll give you a few practical examples. I get my medicine the moment I walk into a pharmacy with a prescription not an hour later after a pharmacy tech has called the insurance company. My doctor comes to my house if I feel not capable of going to him. An ER visit costs me on average about 2 hours, I don't have to fill in paperwork and nobody ever asks me credit card information. After a surgery or when I'm elderly if needed, nurses, physical therapists, even babysitters and cleaning ladies come to my house to help out if needed. All this, although it is not free is being offered at prices so even a poor person can afford it. So tell me wich one of these services do you guys have and what's the price you pay for them?

Amazing you can afford any fine Belgian chocolates given the taxes stolen from you.

Belgian taxation:

Belgium - Taxes on personal income

Belgium Personal Income Tax Rate | 1995-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar

I always have the same conversation with Republicans. Taxes aren't a punishment. they are one of the ways a standard of living is funded. Yes I pay a lot more in taxes. Those taxes also provide me with a lot of services, which are either unavailable or unaffordable to the average American. I'll give a practical example in the health care sector that illustrates part of why our healthcare system is cheaper. Becoming a doctor in the US costs on average about 200000 dollars in debt. Not talking Harvard just your run of the mill medical school. A medical degree here costs 550euro per year plus a couple of thousand for living expenses.Medical School in Belgium « Mind On Medicine This means that in order for it to be worth your while in the US, you as a doctor will be forced to charge considerably more. Especially considering the need for very expensive malpractice insurances. I pay more than twice your average tax rate but the costs of basic services is a lot lower. In the end we drive a nice car. Our health insurance offers way more services without costs that exclude large sections of the populace.More of us own there own house List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia. And almost none of us have to choose between having food or going to a doctor.

Thank you.

 

[Markle]

I always have the same conversation with Republicans. Taxes aren't a punishment. they are one of the ways a standard of living is funded. Yes I pay a lot more in taxes. Those taxes also provide me with a lot of services, which are either unavailable or unaffordable to the average American.

Exorbitant taxes such as you have in Belgium, are, to us in the United States, draconian punishment. Your sales tax alone is 21%. You NEED and can't survive without womb to tomb care by the government. The vast majority of Americans prefer their independence.

Belgium is a fraction of the size of New York State. A lot of things can be done with a tiny population of 15 million as compared to 330 million.

Enjoy your government run life. I prefer freedom, independence, and personal responsibility.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Liz Gets Real: Single-Payer Is The Answer