Making Our Children Stalinists

[JakeStarkey]

And we witness the OP dissolve from the contradictions of the premise and the characters of its defenders.

 

[Mustang]

Hahaha, good for Philadelphia.

http://www.lifeaftercapitalism.info...nn-A Peoples-History-Of-The-United States.pdf

....did you agree with Zinn in post #2?

Not enough context.

I like what I saw in the text book however.

Interesting, isn't it? Some people are not bothered one whit by all the deaths our gov't has rained down on countless people and peoples in the name of capitalism, or so-called democracy, or whatever the cause du jour might be. But that book has got them all worked up because why? It holds up an unflattering mirror up to some of our less attractive historic motives and intentions just like we do to others all the time.

How dare they judge us by our own standards!!!

 

[Stashman]

Communist have been running the U.S. educational system for decades.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Or the truth being covered up by right wingers.

Have an example?

Wounded Knee.

So....did I frighten you away by asking you to defend your charge?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And we witness the OP dissolve from the contradictions of the premise and the characters of its defenders.

How so, dunce?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I sort of do. Because humans who were enlightened, even when facing ills, would be able to separate misguidance from murder (especially of women and children).

To clarify:

If a fleet of men were killing my people: men, women and children, I wouldn't then find it justified to kill their women and children also (in any moral sense).

Since you don't read, you probably don't know that most of the "genocide of Indians" is a Liberal myth.

You sound EXACTLY like a holocaust denier!

So....you don't care to defend that statement?


I guess you'd rather retract that, huh?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Oh the irony.

You average 37+ posts a day. Don't you have a life? Well, I digress, what I really wonder is, with all the time you have to waste, why don't you ever have anything intelligent to offer?

 

[Mustang]

Communist have been running the U.S. educational system for decades.

Schools are operated and managed locally. So, do the country a favor and just harass your own school board, and leave everyone else alone. And if and when you somehow manage to elect a bunch of wacko fascist fundamentalists to your school board with a lot of crazy ideas about altering history and science textbooks in order to comport with their personal views, you'll only have yourself to blame when parents get all worked up because they would rather have their children educated than indoctrinated.

I mean, if you want indoctrination, you can spend more time in any church you want. I hear many of them will willingly take as much of your money as you want to give them for the privilege of further indoctrination.

 

[Borillar]

Foremost, be clear: this is about politics...not education.



How's this for a neat plan: we have avowed communists write the curricula, and we make sure that at every turn of the wheel of history, America comes as the evil predator....
yeah....that's the ticket!

Any doubt that the more power the Left accrues, the less freedom and liberty will be emphasized in our schools?




Read this and weep:

1." Philadelphia city council wants socialism taught in schools

2. Philadelphia city council members have approved a resolution that calls for socialist historian Howard Zinn’s book “A People’s History of the United States” to be taught in public high schools.

a. .... council members ... believe that Zinn’s far-left socialist vision of American history is currently missing from high school textbooks.





3. “Council does hereby recognize the need for students to be taught an unvarnished, honest version of U.S. history that empowers students to differentiate between moments that have truly made our country great versus those that established systemic inequality, privilege, and prejudice which continue to reinforce modern society’s most difficult issues,” the resolution states.

4. Zinn’s book is lauded in far-left circles, but many conservative thinkers believe his self-described “history” is really social activism masquerading as fact. Former Indiana Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels believed strongly that the book had no place in K-12 classrooms–...




5. Zinn was an apologist for communist dictators like Fidel Castro, who has brutalized and oppressed the people of Cuba for decades.....Councilwoman Blackwell defended the Castro regime. “Castro did not do everything wrong, or he would not have lasted so long,” she said in a statement to CBS.

6. Philadelphia Daily News columnist Will Bunch praised the decision to demand that Zinn be taught in class, happily explaining that his own radicalism was fostered by “A People’s History of the United States.” “Although readers here assume because of my fondness for the radical ’60s that I emerged from the womb carrying a picture of Chairman Mao, the truth is that I was a bland center-left voters and a pretty “balanced” journalist in the ’90s,” he wrote. “Reading Zinn helped me understand what went wrong, and how everyday people could fight to get things right.”

7. Mao, the Chinese dictator whom Bunch recalled fondly, ruled communist China from 1949 to 1976. His policies of mass starvation and execution are responsible for an estimated 50 million deaths.

[Recall that other far-left activists, e.g., SDS, the Weathermen, planned the same fate for Americans]


8. There has been no word yet on whether district officials plan to turn Philadelphia students into apologists for mass-murdering dictators."
Philadelphia city council wants socialism taught in schools | The Daily Caller
Read more: Philadelphia city council wants socialism taught in schools | The Daily Caller



This is the state of secular America, wherein apologists for Castro and Mao, and, no doubt, Stalin, are powerful enough to offer imprimatur to genocidal maniacs.

These are to be the models or American children.

I have not seen or read the book by Zinn. Have you actually read the book? Is your objection that he doesn't whitewash history enough?

I'm in my late 50's. I was taught about Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Capitalism, Social Democracy, and other forms of government and economy. Should we not teach our children these things?

What is it you want? To whitewash history so that at every turn, America is the shining knight? Ignore the negative things that happened in our past - slavery, Indian massacres, manifest destiny (imperialism), racial inequality, etc?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

 

[koshergrl]

Communist have been running the U.S. educational system for decades.

Schools are operated and managed locally. So, do the country a favor and just harass your own school board, and leave everyone else alone. And if and when you somehow manage to elect a bunch of wacko fascist fundamentalists to your school board with a lot of crazy ideas about altering history and science textbooks in order to comport with their personal views, you'll only have yourself to blame when parents get all worked up because they would rather have their children educated than indoctrinated.

I mean, if you want indoctrination, you can spend more time in any church you want. I hear many of them will willingly take as much of your money as you want to give them for the privilege of further indoctrination.

Schools are operated and managed locally....with federal funding and oversight. They must adhere to FEDERAL POLICY and meet FEDERAL mandates in order to receive that funding.

Did you not know this?

Do the feds fund the churches? And are children federally mandated to attend?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Since you don't read, you probably don't know that most of the "genocide of Indians" is a Liberal myth.

You sound EXACTLY like a holocaust denier!

So....you don't care to defend that statement?


I guess you'd rather retract that, huh?

"Since you don't read, you probably don't know that most of the "genocide of Indians" is a Liberal myth": Most huh?

On March 25, 1838 more than fourteen thousand members of the Cherokee Nation were forced from tribal lands in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee and 'escorted' along an 800 mile trail for somewhere between 93 and 139 and an estimated 4,000 people died, mostly infants, children and the elderly.

For some detail on the "liberal myth" please refer to this link and follow it up with research of your own.

American Indian Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[koshergrl]

4000 Indians does not a genocide make. Sorry.

 

[koshergrl]

Meanwhile, comrades:

"
We must make the young into a generation of Communists. Children, like soft wax, are very malleable and they should be moulded into good Communists... We must rescue children from the harmful influence of the family... We must nationalize them. From the earliest days of their little lives, they must find themselves under the beneficient influence of Communist schools... To oblige the mother to give her child to the Soviet state – that is our task.".[4] Those born after the Revolution were explicitly told that they were to build a utopia of brotherhood and justice, and to not be like their parents, but completely Red.[5"

Propaganda in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sort of puts me in mind of the lefty insistence that sending children to church is "child abuse". Still trying to get those little kids away from their parents, some things never change...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Foremost, be clear: this is about politics...not education.



How's this for a neat plan: we have avowed communists write the curricula, and we make sure that at every turn of the wheel of history, America comes as the evil predator....
yeah....that's the ticket!

Any doubt that the more power the Left accrues, the less freedom and liberty will be emphasized in our schools?




Read this and weep:

1." Philadelphia city council wants socialism taught in schools

2. Philadelphia city council members have approved a resolution that calls for socialist historian Howard Zinn’s book “A People’s History of the United States” to be taught in public high schools.

a. .... council members ... believe that Zinn’s far-left socialist vision of American history is currently missing from high school textbooks.





3. “Council does hereby recognize the need for students to be taught an unvarnished, honest version of U.S. history that empowers students to differentiate between moments that have truly made our country great versus those that established systemic inequality, privilege, and prejudice which continue to reinforce modern society’s most difficult issues,” the resolution states.

4. Zinn’s book is lauded in far-left circles, but many conservative thinkers believe his self-described “history” is really social activism masquerading as fact. Former Indiana Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels believed strongly that the book had no place in K-12 classrooms–...




5. Zinn was an apologist for communist dictators like Fidel Castro, who has brutalized and oppressed the people of Cuba for decades.....Councilwoman Blackwell defended the Castro regime. “Castro did not do everything wrong, or he would not have lasted so long,” she said in a statement to CBS.

6. Philadelphia Daily News columnist Will Bunch praised the decision to demand that Zinn be taught in class, happily explaining that his own radicalism was fostered by “A People’s History of the United States.” “Although readers here assume because of my fondness for the radical ’60s that I emerged from the womb carrying a picture of Chairman Mao, the truth is that I was a bland center-left voters and a pretty “balanced” journalist in the ’90s,” he wrote. “Reading Zinn helped me understand what went wrong, and how everyday people could fight to get things right.”

7. Mao, the Chinese dictator whom Bunch recalled fondly, ruled communist China from 1949 to 1976. His policies of mass starvation and execution are responsible for an estimated 50 million deaths.

[Recall that other far-left activists, e.g., SDS, the Weathermen, planned the same fate for Americans]


8. There has been no word yet on whether district officials plan to turn Philadelphia students into apologists for mass-murdering dictators."
Philadelphia city council wants socialism taught in schools | The Daily Caller
Read more: Philadelphia city council wants socialism taught in schools | The Daily Caller



This is the state of secular America, wherein apologists for Castro and Mao, and, no doubt, Stalin, are powerful enough to offer imprimatur to genocidal maniacs.

These are to be the models or American children.

I have not seen or read the book by Zinn. Have you actually read the book? Is your objection that he doesn't whitewash history enough?

I'm in my late 50's. I was taught about Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Capitalism, Social Democracy, and other forms of government and economy. Should we not teach our children these things?

What is it you want? To whitewash history so that at every turn, America is the shining knight? Ignore the negative things that happened in our past - slavery, Indian massacres, manifest destiny (imperialism), racial inequality, etc?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Let me dumb this down for you......


Having Howard Zinn as the author of public school curriculum would be like having
Charlie Sheen do testimonials for eHarmony.


Can you understand it now?

 

[Borillar]

Communist have been running the U.S. educational system for decades.

Schools are operated and managed locally. So, do the country a favor and just harass your own school board, and leave everyone else alone. And if and when you somehow manage to elect a bunch of wacko fascist fundamentalists to your school board with a lot of crazy ideas about altering history and science textbooks in order to comport with their personal views, you'll only have yourself to blame when parents get all worked up because they would rather have their children educated than indoctrinated.

I mean, if you want indoctrination, you can spend more time in any church you want. I hear many of them will willingly take as much of your money as you want to give them for the privilege of further indoctrination.

Schools are operated and managed locally....with federal funding and oversight. They must adhere to FEDERAL POLICY and meet FEDERAL mandates in order to receive that funding.

Did you not know this?

Do the feds fund the churches? And are children federally mandated to attend?

Actually, the feds do fund churches and faith based services to the tune of billions of dollars. Kids aren't mandated to attend, although if the religious right had their way, they probably would be.

 

[Mustang]

You sound EXACTLY like a holocaust denier!

So....you don't care to defend that statement?


I guess you'd rather retract that, huh?

"Since you don't read, you probably don't know that most of the "genocide of Indians" is a Liberal myth": Most huh?

On March 25, 1838 more than fourteen thousand members of the Cherokee Nation were forced from tribal lands in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee and 'escorted' along an 800 mile trail for somewhere between 93 and 139 and an estimated 4,000 people died, mostly infants, children and the elderly.

For some detail on the "liberal myth" please refer to this link and follow it up with research of your own.

American Indian Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sand Creek massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Acknowledged even by the US Gov't as a National Historic Site and administered by the National Park Service.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Communist have been running the U.S. educational system for decades.

Schools are operated and managed locally. So, do the country a favor and just harass your own school board, and leave everyone else alone. And if and when you somehow manage to elect a bunch of wacko fascist fundamentalists to your school board with a lot of crazy ideas about altering history and science textbooks in order to comport with their personal views, you'll only have yourself to blame when parents get all worked up because they would rather have their children educated than indoctrinated.

I mean, if you want indoctrination, you can spend more time in any church you want. I hear many of them will willingly take as much of your money as you want to give them for the privilege of further indoctrination.

Schools are operated and managed locally....with federal funding and oversight. They must adhere to FEDERAL POLICY and meet FEDERAL mandates in order to receive that funding.

Did you not know this?

Do the feds fund the churches? And are children federally mandated to attend?

"Local, state, and federal dollars support the education of 6.2
million students in California’s K-12 public schools. Since 1978,
California schools have relied on the state budget for the majority
of their support, a signifi cant change from prior years when most
school funding came from local property tax revenues. State
lawmakers made deep cuts to schools in recent years to close
budget gaps brought about by the dramatic decline in revenues
caused by the Great Recession. In 2008-09, for example,
lawmakers reduced funding for K-12 education by $7.2 billion,
a 14.8 percent drop from the prior year. While federal dollars
from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 and
the Education Jobs Fund Act of 2010 helped mitigate cuts to
state education spending, most of these one-time funds expired
in 2011."

Link: http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2012/120523_Education_Funding_PB.pdf

A bit more detail here:

http://usinfo.org/enus/education/overview/ch6.html

 

[koshergrl]

You sound EXACTLY like a holocaust denier!

So....you don't care to defend that statement?


I guess you'd rather retract that, huh?

"Since you don't read, you probably don't know that most of the "genocide of Indians" is a Liberal myth": Most huh?

On March 25, 1838 more than fourteen thousand members of the Cherokee Nation were forced from tribal lands in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee and 'escorted' along an 800 mile trail for somewhere between 93 and 139 and an estimated 4,000 people died, mostly infants, children and the elderly.

For some detail on the "liberal myth" please refer to this link and follow it up with research of your own.

American Indian Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why don't we step away from wiki, mmkay?

"In 1928, the ethnologist James Mooney proposed a total count of 1,152,950 Indians in all tribal areas north of Mexico at the time of the European arrival. By 1987, in American Indian Holocaust and Survival, Russell Thornton was giving a figure of well over 5 million, nearly five times as high as Mooney’s, while Lenore Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr. suggested a total of 12 million. That figure rested in turn on the work of the anthropologist Henry Dobyns, who in 1983 had estimated the aboriginal population of North America as a whole at 18 million and of the present territory of the United States at about 10 million.
From one perspective, these differences, however startling, may seem beside the point: there is ample evidence, after all, that the arrival of the white man triggered a drastic reduction in the number of native Americans. Nevertheless, even if the higher figures are credited, they alone do not prove the occurrence of genocide."

"The most hideous enemy of native Americans was not the white man and his weaponry, concludes Alfred Crosby,"but the invisible killers which those men brought in their blood and breath." It is thought that between 75 to 90 percent of all Indian deaths resulted from these killers."

"The larger picture also does not conform to Stannard’s idea of disease as an expression of"genocidal war." True, the forced relocations of Indian tribes were often accompanied by great hardship and harsh treatment; the removal of the Cherokee from their homelands to territories west of the Mississippi in 1838 took the lives of thousands and has entered history as the Trail of Tears. But the largest loss of life occurred well before this time, and sometimes after only minimal contact with European traders. "

So no genocide.

Glad we could clear that up.

History News Network | Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?

 

[koshergrl]

Schools are operated and managed locally. So, do the country a favor and just harass your own school board, and leave everyone else alone. And if and when you somehow manage to elect a bunch of wacko fascist fundamentalists to your school board with a lot of crazy ideas about altering history and science textbooks in order to comport with their personal views, you'll only have yourself to blame when parents get all worked up because they would rather have their children educated than indoctrinated.

I mean, if you want indoctrination, you can spend more time in any church you want. I hear many of them will willingly take as much of your money as you want to give them for the privilege of further indoctrination.

Schools are operated and managed locally....with federal funding and oversight. They must adhere to FEDERAL POLICY and meet FEDERAL mandates in order to receive that funding.

Did you not know this?

Do the feds fund the churches? And are children federally mandated to attend?

"Local, state, and federal dollars support the education of 6.2
million students in California’s K-12 public schools. Since 1978,
California schools have relied on the state budget for the majority
of their support, a signifi cant change from prior years when most
school funding came from local property tax revenues. State
lawmakers made deep cuts to schools in recent years to close
budget gaps brought about by the dramatic decline in revenues
caused by the Great Recession. In 2008-09, for example,
lawmakers reduced funding for K-12 education by $7.2 billion,
a 14.8 percent drop from the prior year. While federal dollars
from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 and
the Education Jobs Fund Act of 2010 helped mitigate cuts to
state education spending, most of these one-time funds expired
in 2011."

Link: http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2012/120523_Education_Funding_PB.pdf

Were you trying to make a point?

Because you didn't.

 

[Mustang]

4000 Indians does not a genocide make. Sorry.

I guess it depends on how many Indians there are and whether or not you're an Indian.