Marine discharged after getting caught on camera harassing black woman at Trump rally

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

Actually, he doesn't really, because in order to be able to go to a political rally, you need to check with your PAO (Public Affairs Officer) to see what you can and can't do at the rally (the rules are pretty specific on those), which I'm guessing he probably didn't because DEP (Delayed Entry Program) personnel generally don't know anything other than what their recruiter tells them, since they are not fully in the military yet.

And yes, people who are in DEP are subject to the UCMJ, and are expected to act accordingly.

As far as kicking him out? DEP is a bit different than being active duty, because you haven't formally sworn in yet, so if you do something that could be considered embarrassing by the military, they can void your DEP enlistment and refuse to allow you to go to boot camp.

And no..................you don't need to appear before a courts martial to be discharged. You can be discharged for any number of reasons while in boot camp (failure to acclimate, not in good enough shape, or some other reason), and it is considered an ELS (Entry Level Separation), and they simply send you home.

In the cases of personnel who have been to Captains mast several times and show that they aren't good military people? The Captain can recommend that you are discharged and send it up to Washington for approval, or, sometimes Washington will send out a Project Upgrade message and you have one week to figure out who you want to kick out and if the meet the requirements of Project Upgrade, they are gone.

Worked in personnel for 20 years in the Navy, as well as worked at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) for the last 2 1/2 years I was in.

No, you don't have to get permission to attend a political function. Partisan and nonpartisan political events are permissible.

A conductory discharge requires a court martial.

 

[bodecea]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

Er....no he can't.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

DEP personnel are different from active duty. When you are in DEP, it is an informal agreement between you and the service that you will show up on the day you said you would and ship off for boot camp.

You don't actually enlist until the morning you ship off for boot camp, that is when your formal swearing in ceremony is.

Shoot, when I was working at Amarillo MEPS, there were instances where the service member refused to come back to ship out, and all that happened was the contract was voided and the member was told to not come back.

No, there isn't any breach of contract here.

Tell you what, why don't YOU enlist and see what the procedures are, because from the way you are posting, you know nothing about the military or enlistment procedures.

And...............the longest anyone can stay in DEP is for a year or less.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

Er....no he can't.

We...yes he can, if the Marine Corps violated his rights and, or violated NAVMAC, or DOD regulations.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

Actually, he doesn't really, because in order to be able to go to a political rally, you need to check with your PAO (Public Affairs Officer) to see what you can and can't do at the rally (the rules are pretty specific on those), which I'm guessing he probably didn't because DEP (Delayed Entry Program) personnel generally don't know anything other than what their recruiter tells them, since they are not fully in the military yet.

And yes, people who are in DEP are subject to the UCMJ, and are expected to act accordingly.

As far as kicking him out? DEP is a bit different than being active duty, because you haven't formally sworn in yet, so if you do something that could be considered embarrassing by the military, they can void your DEP enlistment and refuse to allow you to go to boot camp.

And no..................you don't need to appear before a courts martial to be discharged. You can be discharged for any number of reasons while in boot camp (failure to acclimate, not in good enough shape, or some other reason), and it is considered an ELS (Entry Level Separation), and they simply send you home.

In the cases of personnel who have been to Captains mast several times and show that they aren't good military people? The Captain can recommend that you are discharged and send it up to Washington for approval, or, sometimes Washington will send out a Project Upgrade message and you have one week to figure out who you want to kick out and if the meet the requirements of Project Upgrade, they are gone.

Worked in personnel for 20 years in the Navy, as well as worked at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) for the last 2 1/2 years I was in.

No, you don't have to get permission to attend a political function. Partisan and nonpartisan political events are permissible.

A conductory discharge requires a court martial.

No, a discharge for poor conduct DOES NOT require a courts martial. And yes, you DO have to check with the PAO to see what you can and can't do at a political rally.

Here's the DOD directive, it's about 15 pages long.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

DEP personnel are different from active duty. When you are in DEP, it is an informal agreement between you and the service that you will show up on the day you said you would and ship off for boot camp.

You don't actually enlist until the morning you ship off for boot camp, that is when your formal swearing in ceremony is.

Shoot, when I was working at Amarillo MEPS, there were instances where the service member refused to come back to ship out, and all that happened was the contract was voided and the member was told to not come back.

No, there isn't any breach of contract here.

Tell you what, why don't YOU enlist and see what the procedures are, because from the way you are posting, you know nothing about the military or enlistment procedures.

And...............the longest anyone can stay in DEP is for a year or less.

I understand that DEP personal are different, however, even DEP's have rights and there are regulations concerning their involuntary separation from the service. So far, I've yet to see any evidence that this dude did anything to rate being discharged. Attending a political event isn't enough.

 

[bodecea]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

Er....no he can't.

We...yes he can, if the Marine Corps violated his rights and, or violated NAVMAC, or DOD regulations.

Nope....but good luck with your fantasy suing of the Marine Corps to force them to take someone.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

Actually, he doesn't really, because in order to be able to go to a political rally, you need to check with your PAO (Public Affairs Officer) to see what you can and can't do at the rally (the rules are pretty specific on those), which I'm guessing he probably didn't because DEP (Delayed Entry Program) personnel generally don't know anything other than what their recruiter tells them, since they are not fully in the military yet.

And yes, people who are in DEP are subject to the UCMJ, and are expected to act accordingly.

As far as kicking him out? DEP is a bit different than being active duty, because you haven't formally sworn in yet, so if you do something that could be considered embarrassing by the military, they can void your DEP enlistment and refuse to allow you to go to boot camp.

And no..................you don't need to appear before a courts martial to be discharged. You can be discharged for any number of reasons while in boot camp (failure to acclimate, not in good enough shape, or some other reason), and it is considered an ELS (Entry Level Separation), and they simply send you home.

In the cases of personnel who have been to Captains mast several times and show that they aren't good military people? The Captain can recommend that you are discharged and send it up to Washington for approval, or, sometimes Washington will send out a Project Upgrade message and you have one week to figure out who you want to kick out and if the meet the requirements of Project Upgrade, they are gone.

Worked in personnel for 20 years in the Navy, as well as worked at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) for the last 2 1/2 years I was in.

No, you don't have to get permission to attend a political function. Partisan and nonpartisan political events are permissible.

A conductory discharge requires a court martial.

No, a discharge for poor conduct DOES NOT require a courts martial. And yes, you DO have to check with the PAO to see what you can and can't do at a political rally.

Here's the DOD directive, it's about 15 pages long.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

A conductors discharge requires a court martial. A performance discharge doesn't.

And you know there's a difference.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

Er....no he can't.

We...yes he can, if the Marine Corps violated his rights and, or violated NAVMAC, or DOD regulations.

Nope....but good luck with your fantasy suing of the Marine Corps to force them to take someone.

Even better luck with your little fantasy.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

Actually, he doesn't really, because in order to be able to go to a political rally, you need to check with your PAO (Public Affairs Officer) to see what you can and can't do at the rally (the rules are pretty specific on those), which I'm guessing he probably didn't because DEP (Delayed Entry Program) personnel generally don't know anything other than what their recruiter tells them, since they are not fully in the military yet.

And yes, people who are in DEP are subject to the UCMJ, and are expected to act accordingly.

As far as kicking him out? DEP is a bit different than being active duty, because you haven't formally sworn in yet, so if you do something that could be considered embarrassing by the military, they can void your DEP enlistment and refuse to allow you to go to boot camp.

And no..................you don't need to appear before a courts martial to be discharged. You can be discharged for any number of reasons while in boot camp (failure to acclimate, not in good enough shape, or some other reason), and it is considered an ELS (Entry Level Separation), and they simply send you home.

In the cases of personnel who have been to Captains mast several times and show that they aren't good military people? The Captain can recommend that you are discharged and send it up to Washington for approval, or, sometimes Washington will send out a Project Upgrade message and you have one week to figure out who you want to kick out and if the meet the requirements of Project Upgrade, they are gone.

Worked in personnel for 20 years in the Navy, as well as worked at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) for the last 2 1/2 years I was in.

No, you don't have to get permission to attend a political function. Partisan and nonpartisan political events are permissible.

A conductory discharge requires a court martial.

No, a discharge for poor conduct DOES NOT require a courts martial. And yes, you DO have to check with the PAO to see what you can and can't do at a political rally.

Here's the DOD directive, it's about 15 pages long.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

A conductors discharge requires a court martial. A performance discharge doesn't.

And you know there's a difference.

No, a conduct discharge doesn't require a courts martial unless the command is going for a Bad Conduct Discharge or a Dishonorable Discharge.

Anything else, the command itself can determine if they want to keep you around or not. About once a year back in the beginning of my career in the early 80's, there was a program called Project Upgrade, which was a message that came out from Washington DC (BUPERS), and we'd get it on a Monday, and we would have until that Friday for the command to determine who they wanted to get rid of, and we'd have to get them discharged by the date specified. The main considerations were things like eval averages, how many times the member had been to CO's mast, as well as other factors, but those were the main ones.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

I spent 23 years in the Army, branched infantry. You think I'm unfamiliar with problem children? 23 years in the infantry and you think I never dealt with conduct and performance discharges?

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

Actually, he doesn't really, because in order to be able to go to a political rally, you need to check with your PAO (Public Affairs Officer) to see what you can and can't do at the rally (the rules are pretty specific on those), which I'm guessing he probably didn't because DEP (Delayed Entry Program) personnel generally don't know anything other than what their recruiter tells them, since they are not fully in the military yet.

And yes, people who are in DEP are subject to the UCMJ, and are expected to act accordingly.

As far as kicking him out? DEP is a bit different than being active duty, because you haven't formally sworn in yet, so if you do something that could be considered embarrassing by the military, they can void your DEP enlistment and refuse to allow you to go to boot camp.

And no..................you don't need to appear before a courts martial to be discharged. You can be discharged for any number of reasons while in boot camp (failure to acclimate, not in good enough shape, or some other reason), and it is considered an ELS (Entry Level Separation), and they simply send you home.

In the cases of personnel who have been to Captains mast several times and show that they aren't good military people? The Captain can recommend that you are discharged and send it up to Washington for approval, or, sometimes Washington will send out a Project Upgrade message and you have one week to figure out who you want to kick out and if the meet the requirements of Project Upgrade, they are gone.

Worked in personnel for 20 years in the Navy, as well as worked at a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) for the last 2 1/2 years I was in.

No, you don't have to get permission to attend a political function. Partisan and nonpartisan political events are permissible.

A conductory discharge requires a court martial.

No, a discharge for poor conduct DOES NOT require a courts martial. And yes, you DO have to check with the PAO to see what you can and can't do at a political rally.

Here's the DOD directive, it's about 15 pages long.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134410p.pdf

A conductors discharge requires a court martial. A performance discharge doesn't.

And you know there's a difference.

No, a conduct discharge doesn't require a courts martial unless the command is going for a Bad Conduct Discharge or a Dishonorable Discharge.

Anything else, the command itself can determine if they want to keep you around or not. About once a year back in the beginning of my career in the early 80's, there was a program called Project Upgrade, which was a message that came out from Washington DC (BUPERS), and we'd get it on a Monday, and we would have until that Friday for the command to determine who they wanted to get rid of, and we'd have to get them discharged by the date specified. The main considerations were things like eval averages, how many times the member had been to CO's mast, as well as other factors, but those were the main ones.

The command cannot summarily discharge a service member. Period.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

I spent 23 years in the Army, branched infantry. You think I'm unfamiliar with problem children? 23 years in the infantry and you think I never dealt with conduct and performance discharges?

Actually, no, I don't think you know the procedures or the paperwork that goes along with making it happen. I do, as I worked in Personnel while I was in the Navy.

And, like it's been stated several times before, DEP personnel aren't the same as active duty, and the procedures for releasing them are different than what you have to do for active duty. And, I doubt that you worked in a MEPS to see how that was done. I was Head Classifier and LPO at Amarillo MEPS from Oct. 1999 until May of 2002. I know how those procedures work, I've had to do them before.

This guy wasn't active duty, he was DEP, which is different, and the requirements and procedures for releasing them are easier than what it is for people on active duty.

 

[bodecea]

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case. Service members have a right to due process just like you do. If the discharge action violated his civil right; guess what.

Er....no he can't.

We...yes he can, if the Marine Corps violated his rights and, or violated NAVMAC, or DOD regulations.

Nope....but good luck with your fantasy suing of the Marine Corps to force them to take someone.

Even better luck with your little fantasy.

I don't have a fantasy over this. I'm right. And like Biker, I too am a vet and know how the military operates. What's YOUR experience?

 

[bodecea]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

I spent 23 years in the Army, branched infantry. You think I'm unfamiliar with problem children? 23 years in the infantry and you think I never dealt with conduct and performance discharges?

The infantry isn't Personnel now, is it?

But I love to see your argument how a lawsuit can make the military TAKE someone.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

I spent 23 years in the Army, branched infantry. You think I'm unfamiliar with problem children? 23 years in the infantry and you think I never dealt with conduct and performance discharges?

Actually, no, I don't think you know the procedures or the paperwork that goes along with making it happen. I do, as I worked in Personnel while I was in the Navy.

And, like it's been stated several times before, DEP personnel aren't the same as active duty, and the procedures for releasing them are different than what you have to do for active duty. And, I doubt that you worked in a MEPS to see how that was done. I was Head Classifier and LPO at Amarillo MEPS from Oct. 1999 until May of 2002. I know how those procedures work, I've had to do them before.

This guy wasn't active duty, he was DEP, which is different, and the requirements and procedures for releasing them are easier than what it is for people on active duty.

I know all too well how it works. Summary discharges, without due process are regulatory violations.

 

[ogibillm]

Sounds to me like this Marine--wouldbe Marine--has a nice little lawsuit, since he wasn't on duty and out of uniform and no charges were filed.

So...he's gonna sue to make the Marines take him?

He can, if he has a case.

he doesn't

 

[bodecea]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

I spent 23 years in the Army, branched infantry. You think I'm unfamiliar with problem children? 23 years in the infantry and you think I never dealt with conduct and performance discharges?

Actually, no, I don't think you know the procedures or the paperwork that goes along with making it happen. I do, as I worked in Personnel while I was in the Navy.

And, like it's been stated several times before, DEP personnel aren't the same as active duty, and the procedures for releasing them are different than what you have to do for active duty. And, I doubt that you worked in a MEPS to see how that was done. I was Head Classifier and LPO at Amarillo MEPS from Oct. 1999 until May of 2002. I know how those procedures work, I've had to do them before.

This guy wasn't active duty, he was DEP, which is different, and the requirements and procedures for releasing them are easier than what it is for people on active duty.

I know all too well how it works. Summary discharges, without due process are regulatory violations.

Sure...so you be sure to keep us up to date on this kid's lawsuit, ok?

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Wild Bill is demonstrating his ignorance of how the military operates Bodecea.

Let him show us how much he really doesn't know.

Me? I was a Personnelman for 20 years, and spent 2 and a half years working in recruiting at Amarillo MEPS.

I spent 23 years in the Army, branched infantry. You think I'm unfamiliar with problem children? 23 years in the infantry and you think I never dealt with conduct and performance discharges?

The infantry isn't Personnel now, is it?

But I love to see your argument how a lawsuit can make the military TAKE someone.

Is the infantry made of robots, or people?

Are you saying it can't happen?
Lawsuit: Soldier forced out of Army for serving Chick-fil-A, reading Hannity book | Fox News