Meet the grandmother florist...being crushed by hate filled gays...

[2aguy]

if possible.I would like to keep the argument clean...homos isn't a good way to do that......they can disregard you when you say hat...

pointing out the truth in this situation reveals them for the assholes they are.....

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

That has nothing to do with my post.
Race and sexuality are completely different issues so stop digging yourself a hole with attempted comparisons.

No it actually helps out a point I made earlier. Tell 2aguy what you think about black people for me. Would you?

he can claim to be a social,conservative and be wrong....just like you are a lefty and are wrong on everything....

 

[Derideo_Te]

From Wikipedia....

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1

That whole free exercise part is hard to do when the fucking government is telling you what you must do against your religious,beliefs.....like participating in a gay wedding by providing flowers for it....

If your religious beliefs prevent you from running a business then why must the entire nation bend to your religious beliefs when only you have a problem?

Or are you advocating that your religious Sharia law should be the norm and that everyone must obey your religion first and foremost?

sorry...it doesn't prevent her from running a business, as the original post points out...she served this gay couple all,of the time...for years........she just can't serve a gay wedding....just like a Muslim baker can't add pork....and sharia law possible in this country because again...the first amendment.......

congress,shall make mono law respecting an establishment of religion...and Sharia law is all encompassing, from the state.....just ask Muslims.....so it cannot be enacted...it would violate the First Amendment....

So now you just defeated your own position.

Stick a fork in your OP, it is toast!

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

if possible.I would like to keep the argument clean...homos isn't a good way to do that......they can disregard you when you say hat...

pointing out the truth in this situation reveals them for the assholes they are.....

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

That has nothing to do with my post.
Race and sexuality are completely different issues so stop digging yourself a hole with attempted comparisons.

No it actually helps out a point I made earlier. Tell 2aguy what you think about black people for me. Would you?

You still make no sense.

 

[TheOldSchool]

You can't understand that what these homos are doing is fascist.

if possible.I would like to keep the argument clean...homos isn't a good way to do that......they can disregard you when you say hat...

pointing out the truth in this situation reveals them for the assholes they are.....

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

actually he is wrong on an important point...homosexual sex is not illegal if the people engaging in it are of age and are both consenting......pedophilia is an illegal act because it involves,minors who cannot give consent in the relationship...

Actually sodomy is still illegal in 12 states. I bet you can't guess which ones!

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

2aguy
You are getting angry and understandly so.
You are trying to reason with the unreasonable and use valid logic on the illogical.
Your points are solid. No matter what you present, they will twist and refute and redirect.
There is a reason most of the supporters of the madness that is the left use clowns as their avatars.
Most of them care of nothing but furthering a gay agenda and disrupting the family as the Bible defines it.
They are underneath it all, very angry to have been made part of the tiny segment of "gay". (Yet they will vehemently deny it to the end)
This is their goal. Believe it or not there is good and evil and you are attempting to deal with evil and validate it in a reasonable fashion.
I commend your efforts, but I also see the folly in it.
You did not ask but I will give it.....my opinion is that you are a wise person and that you are wasting time that could be
used much more effectively than arguing with lunatic clowns.

But you certainly have every right to do so

 

[2aguy]

For fucks sake, I'm against the whole being able to force a business to serve anyone for any reason in the first place, but the reality is she broke the law and got fined for it. I'm so sick and tired of political bullshit being spewed without even knowing the damn laws being talked about...


"Before filing the lawsuit, the Attorney General’s Office had sent a letter to Stutzman asking her to comply with Washington law, which prohibits businesses from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation.

Had she agreed to no longer discriminate, the Attorney General’s Office would not have filed suit, and Stutzman would not have paid any costs, fees or penalties." ~ Judge rules on penalties fees for Richland florist in same-sex marriage case - Covington-Maple Valley Reporter#


RCW 49.60.030 (1) "
1) The right to be free from discrimination because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, or the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability is recognized as and declared to be a civil right. This right shall include, but not be limited to:"

and

(1) (f) "The right to engage in commerce free from any discriminatory boycotts or blacklists. Discriminatory boycotts or blacklists for purposes of this section shall be defined as the formation or execution of any express or implied agreement, understanding, policy or contractual arrangement for economic benefit between any persons which is not specifically authorized by the laws of the United States and which is required or imposed, either directly or indirectly, overtly or covertly, by a foreign government or foreign person in order to restrict, condition, prohibit, or interfere with or in order to exclude any person or persons from any business relationship on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability, or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability, or national origin or lawful business relationship: PROVIDED HOWEVER, That nothing herein contained shall prohibit the use of boycotts as authorized by law pertaining to labor disputes and unfair labor practices; and"

~ RCW 49.60.030 Freedom from discrimination Declaration of civil rights.


She broke the law and that is why she was fined and ORDERED to serve gay weddings. After the fact, saying she disagrees with the law in place on a religious basis, does not, in fact, change the law. Sorry, she was in the wrong, she has the right to fight to have said law changed, no problem, but she still broke the law and was fined for it.

Yes...and Rosa Parks was informed by the government agent that it was illegal,for her to sit in the front of the bus...............you support that because it was a law then?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

You can't understand that what these homos are doing is fascist.

if possible.I would like to keep the argument clean...homos isn't a good way to do that......they can disregard you when you say hat...

pointing out the truth in this situation reveals them for the assholes they are.....

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

actually he is wrong on an important point...homosexual sex is not illegal if the people engaging in it are of age and are both consenting......pedophilia is an illegal act because it involves,minors who cannot give consent in the relationship...

I was referring to the sexuality and not the legal interpretation of either. Pedophilia and homosexuality are comparable in that both are anomalous sex drives that run counter to procreation.

 

[Syriusly]

She was nice and wonderful to them until one day when she revealed that she thought they were evil and would spend an eternity burning in hell, and then refused them a service she was legally bound to survive. But hey didn't you conservatives raise a bunch of money for her? So see everyone wins.

funny...I didn't see that quote from her....but then...to make this seem right you assholes have to lie......

and they are sinners, as we all are, and not necessarily evil....allowing this woman to be destroyed over one flower arrangement.....now that is fucking evil.........

Since when is it 'fucking evil' to expect a business to comply with the law?

Really- public accommodation laws have been in existence for 50 years-and she is not the first business to face lawsuits or fines for not complying with PA laws.

If she had refused business to this couple because they were Christian orJewish or black or handicapped- it would be exactly the same thing.

At least to me.

Maybe not to you.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

That has nothing to do with my post.
Race and sexuality are completely different issues so stop digging yourself a hole with attempted comparisons.

No it actually helps out a point I made earlier. Tell 2aguy what you think about black people for me. Would you?

he can claim to be a social,conservative and be wrong....just like you are a lefty and are wrong on everything....

Alright bud. Well I'm sorry you're going to completely lose the gay rights debate.

Carry on!

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

who are the real intolerant assholes in this story......
y.

Oh thats easy- the homophobes who use this story to attack homosexuals.

Your post is blatant hypocrisy.

 

[DarkFury]

She was nice and wonderful to them until one day when she revealed that she thought they were evil and would spend an eternity burning in hell, and then refused them a service she was legally bound to survive. But hey didn't you conservatives raise a bunch of money for her? So see everyone wins.

funny...I didn't see that quote from her....but then...to make this seem right you assholes have to lie......

and they are sinners, as we all are, and not necessarily evil....allowing this woman to be destroyed over one flower arrangement.....now that is fucking evil.........

I wonder how many "poor old ladies" you social conservatives used to demonize blacks during the civil rights movement.

Speaks the George Wallace of the democrats.

 

[TheOldSchool]

She was nice and wonderful to them until one day when she revealed that she thought they were evil and would spend an eternity burning in hell, and then refused them a service she was legally bound to survive. But hey didn't you conservatives raise a bunch of money for her? So see everyone wins.

funny...I didn't see that quote from her....but then...to make this seem right you assholes have to lie......

and they are sinners, as we all are, and not necessarily evil....allowing this woman to be destroyed over one flower arrangement.....now that is fucking evil.........

I wonder how many "poor old ladies" you social conservatives used to demonize blacks during the civil rights movement.

Speaks the George Wallace of the democrats.

 

[bodecea]

Hey fellow Democrats, if social conservatives voted consistently Democrat, and they were the ones preventing gays from equal rights and badmouthing black people on a daily basis while flying confederate flags... would you still vote Democrat? I'd be a staunch republican! How about you all?

social conservatives can't vote for democrats,because the democrat party is the party of racism and killing unborn babies.......and the democrats are the ones destroying blacks....why would they want to be members of the racist democrat party..........

Using your logic, the Republican Party is the Party of big government, and federalism over states rights with suspension of habeas corpus.

 

[Syriusly]

For fucks sake, I'm against the whole being able to force a business to serve anyone for any reason in the first place, but the reality is she broke the law and got fined for it. I'm so sick and tired of political bullshit being spewed without even knowing the damn laws being talked about...


"Before filing the lawsuit, the Attorney General’s Office had sent a letter to Stutzman asking her to comply with Washington law, which prohibits businesses from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation.

Had she agreed to no longer discriminate, the Attorney General’s Office would not have filed suit, and Stutzman would not have paid any costs, fees or penalties." ~ Judge rules on penalties fees for Richland florist in same-sex marriage case - Covington-Maple Valley Reporter#


RCW 49.60.030 (1) "
1) The right to be free from discrimination because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, or the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability is recognized as and declared to be a civil right. This right shall include, but not be limited to:"

and

(1) (f) "The right to engage in commerce free from any discriminatory boycotts or blacklists. Discriminatory boycotts or blacklists for purposes of this section shall be defined as the formation or execution of any express or implied agreement, understanding, policy or contractual arrangement for economic benefit between any persons which is not specifically authorized by the laws of the United States and which is required or imposed, either directly or indirectly, overtly or covertly, by a foreign government or foreign person in order to restrict, condition, prohibit, or interfere with or in order to exclude any person or persons from any business relationship on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability, or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability, or national origin or lawful business relationship: PROVIDED HOWEVER, That nothing herein contained shall prohibit the use of boycotts as authorized by law pertaining to labor disputes and unfair labor practices; and"

~ RCW 49.60.030 Freedom from discrimination Declaration of civil rights.


She broke the law and that is why she was fined and ORDERED to serve gay weddings. After the fact, saying she disagrees with the law in place on a religious basis, does not, in fact, change the law. Sorry, she was in the wrong, she has the right to fight to have said law changed, no problem, but she still broke the law and was fined for it.

Yes...and Tosa Parks was informed by the government agent that it was illegal,for her to sit in the front of the bus...............you support that because it was a law then?

Interesting comparison.

If that had been a private busing company, and she had been told that the owners religious belief in the separation of races meant she had to sit at the back of the bus- that would be a violation of public accommodation laws, and that business owner would be in violation.

Public Accommodation laws protect Christians and Muslims, Blacks and Whites, heterosexuals and homosexuals from discrimination based upon who they are perceived as.

I think that is a good thing.

Why don't you?

 

[2aguy]

2aguy
You are getting angry and understandly so.
You are trying to reason with the unreasonable and use valid logic on the illogical.
Your points are solid. No matter what you present, they will twist and refute and redirect.
There is a reason most of the supporters of the madness that is the left use clowns as their avatars.
Most of them care of nothing but furthering a gay agenda and disrupting the family as the Bible defines it.
They are underneath it all, very angry to have been made part of the tiny segment of "gay". (Yet they will vehemently deny it to the end)
This is their goal. Believe it or not there is good and evil and you are attempting to deal with evil and validate it in a reasonable fashion.
I commend your efforts, but I also see the folly in it.
You did not ask but I will give it.....my opinion is that you are a wise person and that you are wasting time that could be
used much more effectively than arguing with lunatic clowns.

thanks...I appreciate the support and the advise...I am not arguing with them....I am presenting reality to the casual readers...those who just here the story through democrat controlled journalism sources.......here they get the reality of the situation....

How many stories,in the main stream press start out saying she refused service because they were gay? that isn't true. How many said that the law in Indiana would force gays to not sit at lunch counters? That isn't true.

I!post here because the left taught me one thing....they win by saturating every information source with their views....no matter how small or large...I watch movies with no political agenda....and the lefy anti gun message comes up through an off hand comment by a character...dittos other points,of view...

They must be fought on this line all season.....as Grant once said....

 

[Syriusly]

if possible.I would like to keep the argument clean...homos isn't a good way to do that......they can disregard you when you say hat...

pointing out the truth in this situation reveals them for the assholes they are.....

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

actually he is wrong on an important point...homosexual sex is not illegal if the people engaging in it are of age and are both consenting......pedophilia is an illegal act because it involves,minors who cannot give consent in the relationship...

I was referring to the sexuality and not the legal interpretation of either. Pedophilia and homosexuality are comparable in that both are anomalous sex drives that run counter to procreation.

And also homophobes really, really like to bring up homosexuality and pedophilia in the same sentence in order to equate homosexuals and pedophiles.

You want homosexuals discriminated against because they 'can't procreate' - even though of course- homosexuals do procreate- and even though heterosexuals often do not procreate. Which of course is just a rationalization for you wanting homosexuals discriminated against.

 

[2aguy]

For fucks sake, I'm against the whole being able to force a business to serve anyone for any reason in the first place, but the reality is she broke the law and got fined for it. I'm so sick and tired of political bullshit being spewed without even knowing the damn laws being talked about...


"Before filing the lawsuit, the Attorney General’s Office had sent a letter to Stutzman asking her to comply with Washington law, which prohibits businesses from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation.

Had she agreed to no longer discriminate, the Attorney General’s Office would not have filed suit, and Stutzman would not have paid any costs, fees or penalties." ~ Judge rules on penalties fees for Richland florist in same-sex marriage case - Covington-Maple Valley Reporter#


RCW 49.60.030 (1) "
1) The right to be free from discrimination because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, or the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability is recognized as and declared to be a civil right. This right shall include, but not be limited to:"

and

(1) (f) "The right to engage in commerce free from any discriminatory boycotts or blacklists. Discriminatory boycotts or blacklists for purposes of this section shall be defined as the formation or execution of any express or implied agreement, understanding, policy or contractual arrangement for economic benefit between any persons which is not specifically authorized by the laws of the United States and which is required or imposed, either directly or indirectly, overtly or covertly, by a foreign government or foreign person in order to restrict, condition, prohibit, or interfere with or in order to exclude any person or persons from any business relationship on the basis of race, color, creed, religion, sex, honorably discharged veteran or military status, sexual orientation, the presence of any sensory, mental, or physical disability, or the use of a trained dog guide or service animal by a person with a disability, or national origin or lawful business relationship: PROVIDED HOWEVER, That nothing herein contained shall prohibit the use of boycotts as authorized by law pertaining to labor disputes and unfair labor practices; and"

~ RCW 49.60.030 Freedom from discrimination Declaration of civil rights.


She broke the law and that is why she was fined and ORDERED to serve gay weddings. After the fact, saying she disagrees with the law in place on a religious basis, does not, in fact, change the law. Sorry, she was in the wrong, she has the right to fight to have said law changed, no problem, but she still broke the law and was fined for it.

Yes...and Tosa Parks was informed by the government agent that it was illegal,for her to sit in the front of the bus...............you support that because it was a law then?

Interesting comparison.

If that had been a private busing company, and she had been told that the owners religious belief in the separation of races meant she had to sit at the back of the bus- that would be a violation of public accommodation laws, and that business owner would be in violation.

Public Accommodation laws protect Christians and Muslims, Blacks and Whites, heterosexuals and homosexuals from discrimination based upon who they are perceived as.

I think that is a good thing.

Why don't you?

sorry, doesn't work.......if they tried to charter a party bus for a gay wedding...then you have a valid comparison....but as the woman said...she served these guys for years....selling them flowers all the time and even working with them to make special arrangements for them.....she only declined, politely to provide them for a gay wedding....

and first....no religion that I know of has a separation of the races doctrine....Christianity doesn't....

and second...if someone created a legally defined religion that did believe in separation of the races as a religious tenemt...then they would be free under the First Amendment to act on that....as long as the government wasn't forcing them to do it...as it do under Jim crow...

 

[defcon4]

She was nice and wonderful to them until one day when she revealed that she thought they were evil and would spend an eternity burning in hell, and then refused them a service she was legally bound to survive. But hey didn't you conservatives raise a bunch of money for her? So see everyone wins.

funny...I didn't see that quote from her....but then...to make this seem right you assholes have to lie......

and they are sinners, as we all are, and not necessarily evil....allowing this woman to be destroyed over one flower arrangement.....now that is fucking evil.........

I wonder how many "poor old ladies" you social conservatives used to demonize blacks during the civil rights movement.

OMG! You fucking faggots always come up with slavery and/or Nazism when you cannot offer anything substantial. Move the fuck on and do not revert to issues for what none of us alive is responsible.

 

[EverCurious]

She has every right to take it to court, as I said, however you cannot open a business, KNOWING said law, then change your mind about following said law AFTER being in business.

Those are the laws she as a business is compelled to follow, she did not follow the laws she AGREED to follow by opening a business, and was thus fined, period.

Her wanting to bring up a suit to CHALLENGE those laws is well within her right, but it does NOT change the fact that she broke the law and was appropriately fined for doing so.

 

[2aguy]

if possible.I would like to keep the argument clean...homos isn't a good way to do that......they can disregard you when you say hat...

pointing out the truth in this situation reveals them for the assholes they are.....

Lol keeping the argument clean? Does that mean you guys will avoid comparing gays to pedophiles, condemn them to burn in hell, and demand that they be treated as second class citizens?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are legit comparisons in that both are sex drives that can't result in procreation. No one is demanding homos be treated as second class. The argument is against them being treated as special and privileged.

2aguy

Above is a social conservative for you. You should ask him what he thinks about black people next.

actually he is wrong on an important point...homosexual sex is not illegal if the people engaging in it are of age and are both consenting......pedophilia is an illegal act because it involves,minors who cannot give consent in the relationship...

Actually sodomy is still illegal in 12 states. I bet you can't guess which ones!

not a religious issue....