Minimum wage is already “livable”

[Lisa558]

The "market rate" is set by the market, if people are paying over the current market rate, it becomes the market rate.

Which is better for the small business owner after years of sacrifice and hard work and risk, to pay people more so they have employees or to not have employees?

The market rate is set when the government doesn’t interfere and inflate it artificially.

I myself never had a problem getting employees.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes
I have “sympathy” for the small business owner who has benefitted from a minimum wage frozen for 12 years and who received a 40 percent tax cut in 2017

Where is your compassion for low wage workers who must go into debt to afford college or the taxpayers who must subsidize low wage workers with food stamps, housing subsidies and healthcare because employers refuse to pay a livable wage

Oh, I just noticed something else in your post. You reveal your contempt for the small business owner with your false statement about a 40 percent pay cut. Naturally, you place all small business owners in a bucket of evil rich people, when in fact the majority make less than $100,000. Their pay cut, if any, was similar to the rest of the middle class.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I think your idea is just dandy in a perfect world where people make enough in 3 to 4 years to pay for 80 grand worth of college. just not sure what world that is

I didn't say 80K. If you're living at home with parents willing to help, you can't find a job that pays 20K a year for four years?

What I said is that if you do work a couple of years, you can go to college for cash for the first couple of years anyway. Work on weekends and during the summer full time to replenish those funds, and even if you have to take a loan out, it won't be for very much and easily repayable after graduation.

 

[rightwinger]

Yup. No sympathy for hard-working business owners - only contempt.

This is why liberals will destroy this country. They are hostile to those of us who started a business, grew it with a lot of time and hard work (and talent, too, but I don’t want to brag) to the point we could have five employees, including professional-level ones earning good salaries, while making excuses for people who are flipping hamburgers for years who refuse to take a class - paid for by taxpayers - to increase their earning potential.

A country where there is anger for business owners and excuses for low-earners who aren’t motivated to better themselves is a country that will fall. And that is seemingly what liberals want.

Those small businesses have done nothing to support their hard working employees in good times and bad
They have pocketed frozen wages as their price of goods and services have skyrocketed over 12 years
Given a 40 percent tax cut in 2017, they refused to trickle down the extra revenue instead they pocketed it
They have allowed taxpayers to subsidize their hard working employees because they refuse to pay a livable wage

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not sure what you mean by National Service, by if it’s military, I’m all for that. Israel does that with its high school grads.

The military would be just one option, as it is in Israel

 

[rightwinger]

Oh, I just noticed something else in your post. You reveal your contempt for the small business owner with your false statement about a 40 percent pay cut. Naturally, you place all small business owners in a bucket of evil rich people, when in fact the majority make less than $100,000. Their pay cut, if any, was similar to the rest of the middle class.

Look at the decrease in corporate tax rate not personal
39 percent down to 21

 

[g5000]

We have fat fucking HOMELESS PEOPLE who can afford to do drugs and shit.

I can't say I've ever seen a fat homeless person.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Those small businesses have done nothing to support their hard working employees in good times and bad
They have pocketed frozen wages as their price of goods and services have skyrocketed over 12 years
Given a 40 percent tax cut in 2017, they refused to trickle down the extra revenue instead they pocketed it
They have allowed taxpayers to subsidize their hard working employees because they refuse to pay a livable wage

Subsidizing low income workers is a government action--not a business action.

When I was working we had companies use temp services. When the employer would ask them if they could work extra hours,they refused. Working more hours would cut into their food stamp stipend. For them, it would be like working for free.

Now if taxpayers didn't provide SNAP's to those workers, they would work as many hours as offered to them. They may even get an offer from the company to quit the temp service and take a good paying full-time job with them. But they threw it all away to keep their government benefits.

 

[Lisa558]

Those small businesses have done nothing to support their hard working employees in good times and bad
They have pocketed frozen wages as their price of goods and services have skyrocketed over 12 years
Given a 40 percent tax cut in 2017, they refused to trickle down the extra revenue instead they pocketed it
They have allowed taxpayers to subsidize their hard working employees because they refuse to pay a livable wage

Blah, blah, blah….those evil RICH small mom-n-pop small businesses. They got no 40% tax cut - where are you even dreaming that up from? - and they provide jobs at good salaries for their professional staff too.

Why should I pay the high school kid $15 an hour to run paper through the xerox machine and collate it? Not worth it! I’ll just increase my adm assistant by $5 an hour (that’s a $10,000 raise!), and let her do it - and I will have saved money for myself as well.

You have NO CLUE how the small business world works.

 

[Lisa558]

Subsidizing low income workers is a government action--not a business action.

When I was working we had companies use temp services. When the employer would ask them if they could work extra hours,they refused. Working more hours would cut into their food stamp stipend. For them, it would be like working for free.

Now if taxpayers didn't provide SNAP's to those workers, they would work as many hours as offered to them. They may even get an offer from the company to quit the temp service and take a good paying full-time job with them. But they threw it all away to keep their government benefits.

Ah, you bring up an interesting issue. These workers WANT the subsidies. Back when liberal NYC required business owners to pay their lowest-level employees to $15, the employees asked that their hours be cut because they were earning too much money for food stamps.

 

[g5000]

Let’s run some numbers:

At minimum wage, a 19-year-old with an IQ of 95 and a C-average in high school, takes a job running the ”scan items and place in bag” line at Target. (I could have done that job in junior high.) He earns $20,000 a year, or about $1500 a month.

So he rents an $1800 a month 3-bedroom towmhouse with two other kids. His share is $600. That leaves him $900 for everything else: $60 for bus fare to the job, $40 for his share of utilities, $300 for food, $50 for personal items (TP, shaving cream, etc.), and $50 for Obamacare premiums (maybe less).

So out of his $1500 monthly earnings, he has spent a total of $1100 for the basics: food, shelter, medical care, some necessary personal items. He Is NOT living in poverty, not by a long shot.

He still has $400 left over for things beyond basics.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25. That's $15,000 a year, BEFORE taxes. Not $20,000.

That's $1160 a month. Not $1500. Again, BEFORE taxes.

So your numbers literally don't add up.

 

[Lisa558]

Look at the decrease in corporate tax rate not personal
39 percent down to 21

What are you talking about?! As a business owner, I paid the same tax rate on my income as any employee paid on his. There was no business rate - that’s for the corporations with big revenues.

You are clueless about small business owners.

 

[Lisa558]

The federal minimum wage is $7.25. That's $15,000 a year, BEFORE taxes. Not $20,000.

So your numbers literally don't add up.

I’m talking about in my area. Walmart is starting out their kids at $17 and $18.

 

[g5000]

I survived very nicely for 5 years on $12.50 per hour.

That's 5 dollars more than the minimum wage.

 

[rightwinger]

Blah, blah, blah….those evil RICH small mom-n-pop small businesses. They got no 40% tax cut - where are you even dreaming that up from? - and they provide jobs at good salaries for their professional staff too.

Why should I pay the high school kid $15 an hour to run paper through the xerox machine and collate it? Not worth it! I’ll just increase my adm assistant by $5 an hour (that’s a $10,000 raise!), and let her do it - and I will have saved money for myself as well.

You have NO CLUE how the small business world works.

They have profited from a frozen minimum wage for 12 years
Time to pay the piper

 

[g5000]

I’m talking about in my area. Walmart is starting out their kids at $17 and $18.

This is a topic about the minimum wage.

If you are okay with raising the minimum wage to $17, fine.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ah, you bring up an interesting issue. These workers WANT the subsidies. Back when liberal NYC required business owners to pay their lowest-level employees to $15, the employees asked that their hours be cut because they were earning too much money for food stamps.

I've read similar stories.

Several years ago I rented to a family who was getting behind on rent. They were unmarried with two kids. He had a full-time job, but refused to work more than 40 hours. She stayed home with the kids.

When I seen it was a problem I called them to my apartment to discuss it. I gave them the perfect solution. When he was home on weekends, she could get a part-time job for extra income. Not only would they catch up on their rent and keep a place to live, but the residual money they could use to get a better vehicle than that piece of junk he drove around that he was constantly fixing.

They wouldn't even consider it. For the kids, she was getting $280.00 in food stamps a month. So I had to evict them. Later I sued him for all the back rent and some damages. Since it went through court, it was public record for any future landlord to see.

All that to keep their food stamps.

 

[Lisa558]

They have profited from a frozen minimum wage for 12 years
Time to pay the piper

Time for the McDonalds worker to learn a skill that pays more if she’s unhappy with the going rate.

Although I remind you that I‘d be OK with an increase to $10. Nobody around here earns any less than that anyway,

 

[rightwinger]

I’m talking about in my area. Walmart is starting out their kids at $17 and $18.

Looks like you are justifying $15 min wage then

 

[Lisa558]

This is a topic about the minimum wage.

If you are okay with raising the minimum wage to $17, fine.

Nope. $17 isn’t possible. It would cause a MASSIVE increase up the entire grade scale, and wipe out businesses entirely.

I’m OK with $10.