Minimum Wage --Prevents-- Wealth Acquisition!

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Growth in Mexico over the past 10 years has been a bleak 1 percent

so it will get better by protecting small farmers and horse and buggy industry????

Why does a liberal always go for stupid????

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Wonder why most of the world is so poor? Simply because most governments don't have regulations and a minimum wage allowing most of the working population to get their fair share...

100% stupid and liberal of course. Poverty=liberalism. China just switched to Republican capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire world's poverty.

Simple enough for a liberal with a very low IQ??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

A population of 1.25/day workers?

100% stupid and liberal of course. Republican capitalist workers are the richest in human history by far because capitalism forces businesses to provide the best jobs and products in the world just to survive.

You have learned this lesson 47 times now. Are you going for 48 times??Why not ask your Mom to explain it to you rather than make a fool of yourself here all the time??

 

[CultureCitizen]

Too little ( half of them cross by plane) too late ...

OMG how stupid and liberal!! If we go to the great expense of building a wall we can go to the trivial expense of tracking those who come by plane.

Is that simple enough for you??

Ed, they cross by plane because they either :
A) Have a valid tourist visa
B) Have a legit work permit.
Of course, what they do is they overstay. While it might be relatively easy to track tourists overstaying or doing a side job. It is a lot harder to track people who are supposed to work for six months or one year.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits. What would be the lesser evil ?

A) Cutting tourism by 25% by halting the 16 million arrivals from Mexican tourists.
B) The excess of labour supply caused by 11 million illegals.

International Arrivals- 2012 Year-To-Date Analysis

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

 

[CultureCitizen]

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

Good luck with that: tracking and enforcing the departure of 1.5 visitors per month.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

Good luck with that: tracking and enforcing the departure of 1.5 visitors per month.

of course you're being stupid and liberal as always. E-verify solves problem completely as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do every thing.

 

[jillian]

What a load, as is proven by the accumulation of wealth by the middle class after WWII, and yes they had minimum wage then also...

facts don't matter to the rabid rightwingnuts

 

[jillian]

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

Good luck with that: tracking and enforcing the departure of 1.5 visitors per month.

of course you're being stupid and liberal as always. E-verify solves problem completely as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do every thing.

I love when the stupidest wingers call normal people stupid.

 

[danielpalos]

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

Good luck with that: tracking and enforcing the departure of 1.5 visitors per month.

of course you're being stupid and liberal as always. E-verify solves problem completely as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do every thing.

I love when the stupidest wingers call normal people stupid.

just "one trick ponies" with nothing but repeal as their only other option.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

Good luck with that: tracking and enforcing the departure of 1.5 visitors per month.

of course you're being stupid and liberal as always. E-verify solves problem completely as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do every thing.

I love when the stupidest wingers call normal people stupid.

just "one trick ponies" with nothing but repeal as their only other option.

of course you're being stupid and liberal as always. E-verify solves problem completely of Illegals over staying visas as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do everything.

 

[danielpalos]

dear; there is no appeal to ignorance of the law for public policy purposes.

We have a Commerce Clause, the natural rights of freedom of association and Contract, and a federal Doctrine and State laws regarding the concept of employment at will, also, as that form of natural right.

Immigration is a federal power; why should the private sector be Burdened in Commerce well regulated, by federal rules not private sector Firm rules regarding making a profit, as the case may be.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

dear; there is no appeal to ignorance of the law for public policy purposes.

We have a Commerce Clause, the natural rights of freedom of association and Contract, and a federal Doctrine and State laws regarding the concept of employment at will, also, as that form of natural right.

Immigration is a federal power; why should the private sector be Burdened in Commerce well regulated, by federal rules not private sector Firm rules regarding making a profit, as the case may be.

does anyone know what the liberal is trying to say???

 

[danielpalos]

that incompetence is grounds for lack of Standing, dear.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

that incompetence is grounds for lack of Standing, dear.

does anyone know what the liberal is trying to say???

 

[danielpalos]

why should you care; you don't want a clue or a Cause.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

why should you care; you don't want a clue or a Cause.

. E-verify solves problem completely of Illegals over staying visas as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do everything.

 

[danielpalos]

dear; you are the one for a new, nationalized and socialized program instead of Commerce well regulated among foreign States--how scummy is that.

 

[Andylusion]

Too little ( half of them cross by plane) too late ...

OMG how stupid and liberal!! If we go to the great expense of building a wall we can go to the trivial expense of tracking those who come by plane.

Is that simple enough for you??

Ed, they cross by plane because they either :
A) Have a valid tourist visa
B) Have a legit work permit.
Of course, what they do is they overstay. While it might be relatively easy to track tourists overstaying or doing a side job. It is a lot harder to track people who are supposed to work for six months or one year.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits. What would be the lesser evil ?

A) Cutting tourism by 25% by halting the 16 million arrivals from Mexican tourists.
B) The excess of labour supply caused by 11 million illegals.

International Arrivals- 2012 Year-To-Date Analysis

.
You would have to ban all tourist and work permits.

stupid, there are many other ways to track people and there is E-Verify.

Good luck with that: tracking and enforcing the departure of 1.5 visitors per month.

of course you're being stupid and liberal as always. E-verify solves problem completely as would a 5 year prison sentence for over-staying visa. Odd how the scummy Nazi now says the state cant do anything when the general concept is it can do every thing.

I love when the stupidest wingers call normal people stupid.

Yeah, exactly. Even if we take the counter factual, and assume world in which Mexico had completely closed borders.........

Big farms would industrialize, they would produce greater and greater amounts of food. The supply of food from the larger farms would drowned out the smaller farms, which would go bust.

This is exactly what happened in the US, and we export food rather than import.

How anyone can attempt to claim that this would not happen in Mexico, is not logical or rational.

Posibly... but, that takes time: even large companies can't overtake the market in one year , but that's exactly what happened with Nafta, farmers were not prepared, specially because subsidies were reduced drastically.

You may think what ever you want about NAFTA and migration. But when one of the main promoters of NAFTA , who happens to be a Nobel prize winner , takes the time to write an article titled the broken promise of NAFTA, some thought must be put to the effects of the treaty.
Some highlights :
"In America, the ''giant sucking sound of jobs being pulled out of this country'' that Ross Perot predicted never quite materialized. "

" Meanwhile, poor Mexican corn farmers face an uphill battle competing with highly subsidized American corn, while relatively better-off Mexican city dwellers benefit from lower corn prices"

"Growth in Mexico over the past 10 years has been a bleak 1 percent on a per capita basis -- better than in much of the rest of Latin America, but far poorer than earlier in the century. From 1948 to 1973, Mexico grew at an average annual rate of 3.2 percent per capita. "

The Broken Promise of Nafta

And again...... that would have happened anyway. Yes NAFTA perhaps sped up the process.... but the exact same thing happened in this country.

Small farmers in the US have slowly been forced by big farmers. This is normal and to be expected. Are there some subsidizes? Sure. The over all effect is ambiguous to me, because some suggest it's huge, and others say it's small.

But what you point out correctly, is that it benefited the vast majority of Mexicans with cheaper food, and the people of Mexico are generally poor. This is a benefit to the country as a whole.

You would rather benefit a tiny minority of people, while the majority of the poor in the country suffer higher prices for food?

This is the same argument the auto Unions make. Can't allow other companies to compete, because we'll lose our Union jobs. So the rest of the country has to pay $30,000 for a Geo Metro? Because that's what they would want, if they could get away with it.

And again, unless you think that the Mexican economy would never develop, eventually major farms would force out the poor tiny farms, just like they did here in the US. So if you don't advocate Mexico staying a 3rd world power, then this is a mute arguement.

Also, I already pointed out that Mexico had a free-trade policy in place during the years before NAFTA. Pointing out that GDP growth was higher during that time, really doesn't make the case against Free-Trade.

Again, the drug cartels moved in during the late 80s, early 90s. Growth in the illegal economy, drained away from the legal economy. Businesses under mafia style protection rackets moved to the US, as my article pointed out.

 

[Rshermr]

Most liberals don't understand this because they don't really grasp the principles of free market capitalism. They react emotively and without thinking about consequences of what their emotions drive them to do. And when you're dealing with free market capitalism, this can be very costly because you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Such is the case with our beloved minimum wage.

Oh sure, it has been considered a wonderful idea through all the years... helped the poor exploited worker be treated at least half-way decently... but it has also produced a society full of idiots who don't comprehend how it has damaged the individual's ability to prosper. It's a big giant ball and chain on our ability to negotiate. In order to understand this, you must understand how the principles of free market capitalism (supply and demand) operate.

As I said, the toothpaste is out already, can't put it back now... So I am not suggesting we should get rid of the minimum wage at this time. Various reasons for that but it all goes back to the toothpaste already being out of the tube... we've already established a free market system around this baseline labor cost, any change now would be somewhat detrimental to a lot of people. The better idea at this point is to leave it alone and focus on making it irrelevant. Raising it is stupid and pointless because all you're ultimately doing is decreasing the value of a dollar.

But now... Let's go back to 1912, when this issue was first being debated. The First Progressive Movement was hell bent on establishing a minimum wage, at that time, for women and children. They tried numerous times to do this and kept running into failure because the Supreme Court continued to rule the minimum wage unconstitutional. This went on for over 20 years in the first part of the 20th century. So when we get to the Great Depression, FDR takes this opportunity to implement a national minimum wage. He says, and I quote:

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."

Now...... THAT sounds very familiar, doesn't it? ....Where have I heard THAT recently? Can it not be clearer that this abysmal liberal policy has FAILED? Here we are, 82 years later and the same Progressives are screaming the same thing! The dollar amount is all that is different.

Same argument, same idea, same solution that hasn't worked in 82 years. But it's all about emotion, you see?

Okay, follow me here... think about, what if.... What IF we had not adopted a MW and instead, we promoted individual and collective bargaining? We could have established anti-trust laws where employers had to 'reasonably negotiate' with prospective employees on the specific job available. Of course, we have to understand there were "corporatists" back then who didn't want that to happen. They went along with this "minimum wage" idea because it effectively base-lined labor costs. Think about it for a hot second...

Every wage in America, whether you belong to a union or not, is pretty much determined in relation to the current minimum wage. If that goes up, so do all the wages up the ladder because that is their base line. As long as the minimum wage remains where it is, the motivation for the capitalist is to keep wages the same. so we've stagnated wealth acquisition by base-lining labor cost. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the minimum you've set. Raising the minimum doesn't help you negotiate, it eliminates the job you're negotiating for. If there were no such thing as a minimum wage, you could negotiate based on market value of labor.

We don't know how free market forces would have worked the past 82 years... Sure, children and women were exploited back in 1912... Sure, people were struggling in 1933... but had we taken a different road, one that encouraged free market capitalism instead of trying to regulate it... we may have experienced a different result. It might be that today, an average worker negotiates $15 hr. for a burger flipper job because no one else wants to flip burgers? It might mean the value of the dollar never declined and $5 hr. buys as much as $15 today? We just don't know because we didn't take that road.

And boss, being a con tool with NO understanding of economics, makes statements too stupid to take seriously. For instance, he could not understand that from 1928 until 1933 we saw unemployment increase from 4% to over 25% using the great republican plan of open markets unrestricted by the gov. To not do what was done after the republican Great Depression had ravaged this nation FOR OVER 5 YEARS is simply butt stupid. Which we have come to expect from "Boss".