Zone1 Mormons who have apostatized or stopped going to Church

[TruthNotBS]

So much of your spiel is wrong biblically. You're just another parrot for lds.

What's wrong with my "spiel"? Provide a couple of examples, and let's discuss it.

 

[BS Filter]

What's wrong with my "spiel"? Provide a couple of examples, and let's discuss it.

You believe people will have another chance to hear the lds gospel after death. Unbiblical.

 

[Cougarbear]

Why?

I don’t know why that went to you? It was in response to someone else. Sometimes people run posts together. Sorry.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You believe people will have another chance to hear the lds gospel after death. Unbiblical.

Read this: Baptism For The Dead - FAIR

 

[Cougarbear]

I gave you a link a few posts back You most likely didn't read it. Go read Hebrews and tell me how many times it says Jesus is better.

Unlike you, I can read, comprehend and have cognitive reason capabilities.

 

[BS Filter]

Read this: Baptism For The Dead - FAIR

I've studied it. Pail mentioned it as an example for people believing in a resurrection. However, it wasn't doctrine. It's not a Christian doctrine. Another error by lds.

 

[BS Filter]

Unlike you, I can read, comprehend and have cognitive reason capabilities.

Then tell me how many times Hebrews says Jesus is the better way.

 

[TruthNotBS]

I've studied it. Pail mentioned it as an example for people believing in a resurrection. However, it wasn't doctrine. It's not a Christian doctrine. Another error by lds.

It can be a Christian doctrine under the authority of The Church.

 

[Cougarbear]

I've studied it. Pail mentioned it as an example for people believing in a resurrection. However, it wasn't doctrine. It's not a Christian doctrine. Another error by lds.

It’s in the Bible which is doctrine. And you say it’s not doctrine. Perfect babble. I guess you don’t believe in the resurrection either.
This is one reason I’m good with not being a Christian to you. We are Latter Day Saints. In Christ’s time, the followers of Christ were Saints, not Christians. The anti-Christs at the time called the Saints, Christians. Like today you use “Mormons” as a derogatory term.
Peter taught Christ or missionaries of Christ in the spirit world taught others who died without the Gospel knowledge. So, the ones who accept the Gospel have to be baptized. But that has to be done on earth. Thus, baptism for the dead vicariously has to be done. Something Christians don’t want to do. Saints are doing it.

 

[BS Filter]

It can be a Christian doctrine under the authority of The Church.

It's mentioned one time as an example of SOME people who believed in resurrection. Takes more than that to become church doctrine.

 

[BS Filter]

It’s in the Bible which is doctrine. And you say it’s not doctrine. Perfect babble. I guess you don’t believe in the resurrection either.
This is one reason I’m good with not being a Christian to you. We are Latter Day Saints. In Christ’s time, the followers of Christ were Saints, not Christians. The anti-Christs at the time called the Saints, Christians. Like today you use “Mormons” as a derogatory term.
Peter taught Christ or missionaries of Christ in the spirit world taught others who died without the Gospel knowledge.

It's also mentioned some women covered their head in Church. Is that Church Doctrine? You obviously don't know the difference between cultural and Biblical practices in Church.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm sure it happens in all churches where there are anti-Christians or Anti-Mormons that attempt to share literature that tears down a person's faith. For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's been going on since Joseph Smith said the Father and Son visited him and told him not to join any of the churches for they are all wrong and come close with their lips but are far away from their hearts. So, a General Authority of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints poses these questions to those who have had a testimony of the Latter-day work:
1. Do you believe in the pre-mortal existence- that we lived with God as His children before we came to this earth?
2. Do you believe in the doctrine of the spirit world-that everyone will have a fair chance to hear the gospel in its fullness either on earth or in the spirit world before they are judged?
3. Do you believe, then, in baptism for the dead because that too is in the Bible?
4. Contrary to the doctrine of the Trinity as taught by most of the Christian world, do you believe that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two separate personages with glorified bodies of flesh and bones?
5. Do you believe in one heaven and one hell as taught by most of the Christian world, or do you believe in three degrees of Glory?
6. Do you believe in the eternal nature of families?
7. Do you believe that Christ's Church today should have Apostles just as existed in Christ's mortal ministry?
8. Do you believe in on-going revelation today or believe that it ceased at the time the Bible ended and thereafter God left us on our own?

Then, the big question, Can you think of any other Christian Church that teaches one, let alone all of these doctrinal principles? So, if you still believe lost sheep are you willing to give up all this doctrine you know to be true, to throw it all away, because you have a few questions you can't answer?
Someone can't very well embrace the doctrine of the Church on one hand and then reject the prophets and scriptures through which it came on the other, any more than someone can claim that good fruit comes from a bad tree. If the fruit is good, the Savior taught, the tree is good. Accordingly, if the doctrine is true, then the prophets through whom it came are true.

Once we know that the doctrinal teachings of the Church are true, then we don't have to agonize over and dissect every statement of the prophets...we can accept them as the will of God and move forward in a positive, constructive way. The profound doctrinal teachings of the Church are powerful witness that our prophets are inspired, and thus, we can trust their counsel..

People who lose their faith aren't being influenced by your imaginary boogeyman.

They are just having a moment of clarity and maturity. All by themselves.

 

[BS Filter]

Act
It’s in the Bible which is doctrine. And you say it’s not doctrine. Perfect babble. I guess you don’t believe in the resurrection either.
This is one reason I’m good with not being a Christian to you. We are Latter Day Saints. In Christ’s time, the followers of Christ were Saints, not Christians. The anti-Christs at the time called the Saints, Christians. Like today you use “Mormons” as a derogatory term.
Peter taught Christ or missionaries of Christ in the spirit world taught others who died without the Gospel knowledge. So, the ones who accept the Gospel have to be baptized. But that has to be done on earth. Thus, baptism for the dead vicariously has to be done. Something Christians don’t want to do. Saints are doing it.

Acts 11:26 says you're a liar.

 

[Cougarbear]

It's also mentioned some women covered their head in Church. Is that Church Doctrine? You obviously don't know the difference between cultural and Biblical practices in Church.

Yes, there are cultural and doctrinal practices. So, you have to come to grips on whether or not women didn't have the priesthood in Christ's time as well as Paul's time because it was either doctrine or culture. We say it was doctrine and still is today. But, this is rich. You claim our leaders in the past weren't allowed to give cultural opinions that did not have doctrinal answer like how did Mary get pregnant. Or, why Blacks were stopped from receiving the Priesthood. But now, you want me to decide on the priesthood based on cultural reasons and not doctrinal. Oh the hypocrisies of the Christians. It's also funny that when something is in the Bible that supports your position you claim it. But, when it doesn't, you call it culture or false lies like Baptism for the Dead.

 

[Cougarbear]

People who lose their faith aren't being influenced by your imaginary boogeyman.

They are just having a moment of clarity and maturity. All by themselves.

Why would Christians or Saints care what an atheist has to say? You are welcome to say it but don't expect either of us to support it...

 

[Cougarbear]

Acts 11:26 says you're a liar.

They were called Christians by the non- Saints. Those that were against the Saints. Thanks for pointing this out and supporting my claim.

 

[TruthNotBS]

It's mentioned one time as an example of SOME people who believed in resurrection. Takes more than that to become church doctrine.

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” (1 Cor. 15:29.)

In his epistle to the Corinthians, Paul cited the early Christian practice of proxy baptism for the dead as evidence of a future resurrection and judgment. Most non-Latter-day Saint scholars have failed to note the importance of this passage. Some pass it off as an outmoded practice of the early church, while others believe it refers to an apostate or heretical doctrine.

But historical records are clear on the matter. Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the sixth canon of the Council of Carthage in A.D. 397. Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice. Of the Marcionites of the fourth century, Epiphanius wrote:

“In this country—I mean Asia—and even in Galatia, their school flourished eminently and a traditional fact concerning them has reached us, that when any of them had died without baptism, they used to baptize others in their name, lest in the resurrection they should suffer punishment as unbaptized.” (Heresies, 8:7.)

In early Judaism, too, there is an example of ordinances being performed in behalf of the dead. Following the battle of Marisa in 163 B.C., it was discovered that each of the Jewish soldiers killed in the fight had been guilty of concealing pagan idols beneath his clothing. In order to atone for their wrong, Judas Maccabaeus, the Jewish high priest and commander, collected money from the survivors to purchase sacrificial animals for their dead comrades:

“And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachmas of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:43–46.)

In our day, some Christian churches offer prayers and light candles on behalf of the dead, a Jewish custom also. The Coptic Church of Egypt continues to practice baptism by proxy for deceased members of Coptic families. The same is true of the Neo-Apostolic Church in Europe.

As would be expected of the Lord’s church and true doctrine, only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints engages in genealogical work to provide proxy baptisms for all the kindred dead of its members, for those who accept the gospel in the spirit world must have this ordinance performed for them before they can progress eternally.

 

[BS Filter]

Yes, there are cultural and doctrinal practices. So, you have to come to grips on whether or not women didn't have the priesthood in Christ's time as well as Paul's time because it was either doctrine or culture. We say it was doctrine and still is today. But, this is rich. You claim our leaders in the past weren't allowed to give cultural opinions that did not have doctrinal answer like how did Mary get pregnant. Or, why Blacks were stopped from receiving the Priesthood. But now, you want me to decide on the priesthood based on cultural reasons and not doctrinal. Oh the hypocrisies of the Christians. It's also funny that when something is in the Bible that supports your position you claim it. But, when it doesn't, you call it culture or false lies like Baptism for the Dead.

The priesthood was a picture of Jesus in the OT. You don't get it because you have never studied the Bible.

 

[BS Filter]

They were called Christians by the non- Saints. Those that were against the Saints. Thanks for pointing this out and supporting my claim.

It doesn't say that. You're still lying.

 

[BS Filter]

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” (1 Cor. 15:29.)

In his epistle to the Corinthians, Paul cited the early Christian practice of proxy baptism for the dead as evidence of a future resurrection and judgment. Most non-Latter-day Saint scholars have failed to note the importance of this passage. Some pass it off as an outmoded practice of the early church, while others believe it refers to an apostate or heretical doctrine.

But historical records are clear on the matter. Baptism for the dead was performed by the dominant church until forbidden by the sixth canon of the Council of Carthage in A.D. 397. Some of the smaller sects, however, continued the practice. Of the Marcionites of the fourth century, Epiphanius wrote:

“In this country—I mean Asia—and even in Galatia, their school flourished eminently and a traditional fact concerning them has reached us, that when any of them had died without baptism, they used to baptize others in their name, lest in the resurrection they should suffer punishment as unbaptized.” (Heresies, 8:7.)

In early Judaism, too, there is an example of ordinances being performed in behalf of the dead. Following the battle of Marisa in 163 B.C., it was discovered that each of the Jewish soldiers killed in the fight had been guilty of concealing pagan idols beneath his clothing. In order to atone for their wrong, Judas Maccabaeus, the Jewish high priest and commander, collected money from the survivors to purchase sacrificial animals for their dead comrades:

“And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachmas of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. And also in that he perceived that there was great favour laid up for those that died godly, it was an holy and good thought. Whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.” (2 Maccabees 12:43–46.)

In our day, some Christian churches offer prayers and light candles on behalf of the dead, a Jewish custom also. The Coptic Church of Egypt continues to practice baptism by proxy for deceased members of Coptic families. The same is true of the Neo-Apostolic Church in Europe.

As would be expected of the Lord’s church and true doctrine, only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints engages in genealogical work to provide proxy baptisms for all the kindred dead of its members, for those who accept the gospel in the spirit world must have this ordinance performed for them before they can progress eternally.

It's one mention of some who practice it. Thar isn't a Doctrine. It's the exact same kind of error that Jehovah's Witnesses make about blood transfusions.