Muslim workers fired over prayer dispute

[Bruce_T_Laney]

How would a worker's leaving the line to take a smoke break "cause unreasonable hardship"? Are you ignorant enough to think that these workers are proselytizing on the line? They're not Evangelicals.

How would a worker's leaving the line to take a smoke break "cause unreasonable hardship"?

One?

Maybe two?

Not much hardship at all.

But according to the article, it would have been up to 200 employees taking a break at the same time.

Most companies, that would mean shutting down every time they needed to pray

And yet the company managed to do this in the past. Apparently a decade of experience has made them less competent, not more. And virtually overnight. Amazing.

Would you be arguing for 200 Christians to bring production to a halt in order to pray?

Tilly, read the article. The praying wasn't causing production to halt.

This sentence seems to indicate that praying was indeed interfering with production:

Last week, company spokesman Mike Martin told the Greeley Tribune that because employees work on an assembly line, only one or two at a time can use a prayer area.

Muslim workers fired over prayer dispute walkout in Colorado

Interesting...

So they were told they could not do it all at once, and the Muslim workers did not like that?

How many companies offer a prayer area in the first damn place?

It seem the Company was more accommodating than most, but alas how dare they not just stop production and lose money because offending someone right to prayer on the company dime is against the law according to one poster... ( Not you )

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Whether your employer can accommodate your religious practices will depend upon the nature of the work and the workplace. Usually, your employer can allow you to use lunch or other break times for religious prayer. If you require additional time for prayer, your employer can require you to make up the time.

There are many situations in which the accommodation of Islamic religious practices may not impose a monetary or administrative burden on the employer for example, allowing an employee to utilize appropriate space for prayer. However, each situation is different. If the accommodation would impose a burden on the employer that cannot be resolved, the employer is not required to allow the accommodation. If your employer is unsure of its obligations to provide you with religious accommodations, feel free to contact EEOC with your questions.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE WORKPLACE RIGHTS OF MUSLIMS, ARABS, SOUTH ASIANS, AND SIKHS UNDER THE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY LAWS

 

[TheCrusader]

One?

Maybe two?

Not much hardship at all.

But according to the article, it would have been up to 200 employees taking a break at the same time.

Most companies, that would mean shutting down every time they needed to pray

And yet the company managed to do this in the past. Apparently a decade of experience has made them less competent, not more. And virtually overnight. Amazing.

Would you be arguing for 200 Christians to bring production to a halt in order to pray?

Tilly, read the article. The praying wasn't causing production to halt.

This sentence seems to indicate that praying was indeed interfering with production:

Last week, company spokesman Mike Martin told the Greeley Tribune that because employees work on an assembly line, only one or two at a time can use a prayer area.

Muslim workers fired over prayer dispute walkout in Colorado

Interesting...

So they were told they could not do it all at once, and the Muslim workers did not like that?

How many companies offer a prayer area in the first damn place?

It seem the Company was more accommodating than most, but alas how dare they not just stop production and lose money because offending someone right to prayer on the company dime is against the law according to one poster... ( Not you )

You're too stupid to get it, 1 or 2 using a designated prayer area cannot accommodate 200 people through out the day.

 

[Tilly]

One?

Maybe two?

Not much hardship at all.

But according to the article, it would have been up to 200 employees taking a break at the same time.

Most companies, that would mean shutting down every time they needed to pray

And yet the company managed to do this in the past. Apparently a decade of experience has made them less competent, not more. And virtually overnight. Amazing.

Would you be arguing for 200 Christians to bring production to a halt in order to pray?

Tilly, read the article. The praying wasn't causing production to halt.

This sentence seems to indicate that praying was indeed interfering with production:

Last week, company spokesman Mike Martin told the Greeley Tribune that because employees work on an assembly line, only one or two at a time can use a prayer area.

Muslim workers fired over prayer dispute walkout in Colorado

Interesting...

So they were told they could not do it all at once, and the Muslim workers did not like that?

How many companies offer a prayer area in the first damn place?

It seem the Company was more accommodating than most, but alas how dare they not just stop production and lose money because offending someone right to prayer on the company dime is against the law according to one poster... ( Not you )

I think it looks like give an inch.... Happens all the time in Europe, and in the end this is what is expected to be catered for:

The five daily prayers are obligatory (fard) and they are performed at times determined essentially by the position of the Sun in the sky. Hence, salah times vary at different locations on the Earth.

• Video about Salat
• Printable Prayer Description

Fajr (pre-dawn)Edit
Main article: Fajr
Fajar begins at subh saadiq - true dawn or morning twilight when the morning light appears across the full width of the sky and ends at sunrise

Dhuhr (midday)Edit
Main article: Dhuhr
The Dhuhr prayer starts after the sun passes its zenith, and lasts almost 20min(approx) before Asr.It's better to say the salah in between 2 hours after the Azan has been announced from Mosque.

Asr (afternoon)Edit
Main article: Asr
The Asr prayer starts when the shadow of an object is the same length as the object itself (or, according to Hanafi fiqh, twice its length) plus the shadow length at Dhuhr, and lasts till sunset. Asr can be split into two sections; the preferred time is before the sun starts to turn orange, while the time of necessity is from when the sun turns orange until sunset.

Maghrib (sunset)Edit
Main article: Maghrib
The Maghrib prayer begins when the sun sets, and lasts till the red light has left the sky in the west.

Isha'a (night)Edit
Main article: Isha'a
The Isha'a prayer starts when the red light is gone from the western sky, and lasts until the rise of the "white light" (fajar sadiq) in the east. The preferred time for Isha'a is before midnight, meaning halfway between sunset and sunrise.

 

[dannyboys]

All you Muslim experts, why can't they pray in their heads? You know, say the prayer while they're working? It must be pretty disruptive--do they stop to pray at UN meetings? Do ISIS fighters put down their weapons 5 times a day?

Absolution is a physical act not merely a "woulda coulda shoulda".

ISIS fighters in fact DO put their weapons down 5 times a day and pray, they just don't do it all at once.

They do not do it all at once?

So then the company can tell their workforce you can pray on your given break time but not all at once, right?

Let me guess it is different and not what you meant to write!

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Slaves? Then why not go back to the fucking shithole they came from? I'm sure they'd be happier there.

We all know you hate black people.

Not half as much as they hate themselves for being born negroes.

 

[Arianrhod]

Cargill is under no obligation to provide the accommodation if it puts the company under a hardship, it's an assembly type workplace and would create a unreasonable hardship to the company.

How would a worker's leaving the line to take a smoke break "cause unreasonable hardship"? Are you ignorant enough to think that these workers are proselytizing on the line? They're not Evangelicals.

I have never worked in a place where people got a 'smoke' break they either smoked on their break or lunch break.

Labeled or not, people get breaks on the job.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

All you Muslim experts, why can't they pray in their heads? You know, say the prayer while they're working? It must be pretty disruptive--do they stop to pray at UN meetings? Do ISIS fighters put down their weapons 5 times a day?

Absolution is a physical act not merely a "woulda coulda shoulda".

ISIS fighters in fact DO put their weapons down 5 times a day and pray, they just don't do it all at once.

They do not do it all at once?

So then the company can tell their workforce you can pray on your given break time but not all at once, right?

Let me guess it is different and not what you meant to write!

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

 

[TheCrusader]

Absolution is a physical act not merely a "woulda coulda shoulda".

ISIS fighters in fact DO put their weapons down 5 times a day and pray, they just don't do it all at once.

They do not do it all at once?

So then the company can tell their workforce you can pray on your given break time but not all at once, right?

Let me guess it is different and not what you meant to write!

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

 

[OldLady]

where arianrhod, the Welsh Celtic goddess, would draw the line?

Muslim bus driver locks passengers aboard as he stops to pray

The driver pulled over without warning and rolled out a high-visibility jacket as a makeshift prayer mat before removing his shoes, turning to face Mecca and starting to chant in Arabic.

Passengers said they looked on in stunned silence, fearing the driver may be preparing for a terrorist attack on the bus. No one was able to get on or off the vehicle during the five-minute prayer session.

Gayle Griffiths, 33, complained to Transport for London (TfL) about the incident on the number 24 bus in Gospel Oak, north London, last week.

The mother-of-one from Camden, north west London, who had boarded the bus minutes earlier on her way home from work, said: “Everyone was looking round in a mix of shock and amazement.

“When he had finished, he just got back up and set off again – all without any explanation or apology. It was truly bizarre, ludicrous and aggravating.”
“We are delayed often enough as it is in London. We live in a multicultural society but there is a time and a place for prayer and the middle of a journey with a busload of passengers is not it.”..

...Gigi David, 38, a bus driver on the same route, claimed that he was aware of other Muslim drivers who had stopped buses to pray in the past.

"I don't like it and I don't accept it, but they do it," he said.

"They stop the bus and they make people wait while they pray.

"It's not fair on the public - why should they have to wait? If these Muslim drivers want to pray they should do it in their own time."

Ricardo Dinis, 27, who also drives the number 24, said: "It's wrong because it causes delays. I think these drivers should have time for their religion, but when it comes to work he should have waited.'...

Muslim bus driver locks passengers aboard as he stops to pray

I suppose there is some legal reason why an observant Muslim MUST be hired as a bus driver? If it were my religion, I'd be responsible enough to explain to my prospective employer and be sure it wouldn't cause disruption. Anyone would know that being a bus driver, it's going to cause problems. That driver should have applied for a different job!

 

[Tilly]

Maybe employers should familiarise themselves with Muslim prayer time calculations too, just to be sure they don't 'offend', and then they could organise all the breaks accordingly

Prayer Time Calculations

To calculate prayer times two astronomical measures are necessary, the declination of the sun and the difference between clock time and sundial clock. This difference being the result of the eccentricity of the earth's orbit and the inclination of its axis, it is called the Equation of time. The declination of the sun is the angle between sun's rays and the equator plan.[1]

In addition to the above measures, to calculate prayer times for a specific location we need its spherical coordinates.[2]

In the following

is the time zone, and

the time equation value.

and

are the Longitude and the Latitude of the considered point, respectively.

denotes the Declination of the Sun for a given date.

An other important equation gives the time difference between when the sun hits its highest point in the sky (Dhuhr time) and any other angle

, as follow:

• Midday (Dhuhr) time is easily obtained. When the sun reaches the mid sky, time is given by:
  
• Sunrise (Chorok) and Sunset (Maghreb) time are given by
  
  , in fact it is the astronomical sunset/sunrise that occurs for
  
  . 0.833 is a slight correction that gives the actual time. So
  
  and
  
  .

If we consider the elevation of the point we should add another correction to the constant

.

• For Fajr and Isha many conventions about the angle
  
  exist. It is of 17 and 18 degrees respectively for Fadjr and Isha prayers according to the Muslim World League.
• For Asr time according to the majority of Muslim schools, including Shafi'i, Maliki, Ja'fari, and Hanbali, it is when the length of an object shadows became equal to its length plus the length of its shadow at noon. The Hanafi schools states that the time of Asr is when an object's shadow reaches two times the length of the object itself, plus the length of its shadow at noon. The time the shadow of an object reaches
  
  times its length is given by the equation:
  
  .
• It is called for the Maghrib prayer when the sun is completely folded behind the horizon, plus 3 minutes by precaution.

 

[Arianrhod]

They do not do it all at once?

So then the company can tell their workforce you can pray on your given break time but not all at once, right?

Let me guess it is different and not what you meant to write!

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

The company managed to do that for at least 10 years. Suddenly they've become incompetent. Curious, isn't it?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

And yet the company managed to do this in the past. Apparently a decade of experience has made them less competent, not more. And virtually overnight. Amazing.

Would you be arguing for 200 Christians to bring production to a halt in order to pray?

Tilly, read the article. The praying wasn't causing production to halt.

This sentence seems to indicate that praying was indeed interfering with production:

Last week, company spokesman Mike Martin told the Greeley Tribune that because employees work on an assembly line, only one or two at a time can use a prayer area.

Muslim workers fired over prayer dispute walkout in Colorado

Interesting...

So they were told they could not do it all at once, and the Muslim workers did not like that?

How many companies offer a prayer area in the first damn place?

It seem the Company was more accommodating than most, but alas how dare they not just stop production and lose money because offending someone right to prayer on the company dime is against the law according to one poster... ( Not you )

You're too stupid to get it, 1 or 2 using a designated prayer area cannot accommodate 200 people through out the day.

No, you are too stupid to understand the fact the company did accommodate them and that is all they have to do you stupid fucking moron. The company does have to build them a special room for them to pray in and they can do their prayers on their breaks, and if you believe that is not right then fuck you.

The fact is you are grasping at straws and acting like everyone should just build prayer rooms and stop working because Muslims will get offended, and with that I say fuck you again.

I worked in Geo-Tech Engineering for years with Persians and they never once required a room for prayer nor did they require all of us to stop working during their time of prayer.

They did it on their own damn time, so again fuck you.

Now law was broken and just bullshit claims by a batshit crazy progressive liberal like you that refuses to accept the laws and the fact those employee's were not deny a damn thing and were accommodate more than most, but again go fuck yourself!

 

[Tilly]

They do not do it all at once?

So then the company can tell their workforce you can pray on your given break time but not all at once, right?

Let me guess it is different and not what you meant to write!

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

To calculate prayer times two astronomical measures are necessary, the declination of the sun and the difference between clock time and sundial clock. This difference being the result of the eccentricity of the earth's orbit and the inclination of its axis, it is called the Equation of time. The declination of the sun is the angle between sun's rays and the equator plan.[1]

In addition to the above measures, to calculate prayer times for a specific location we need its spherical coordinates.[2]

In the following

is the time zone, and

the time equation value.

and

are the Longitude and the Latitude of the considered point, respectively.

denotes the Declination of the Sun for a given date.

An other important equation gives the time difference between when the sun hits its highest point in the sky (Dhuhr time) and any other angle

, as follow:

• Midday (Dhuhr) time is easily obtained. When the sun reaches the mid sky, time is given by:
  
• Sunrise (Chorok) and Sunset (Maghreb) time are given by
  
  , in fact it is the astronomical sunset/sunrise that occurs for
  
  . 0.833 is a slight correction that gives the actual time. So
  
  and
  
  .

If we consider the elevation of the point we should add another correction to the constant

.

• For Fajr and Isha many conventions about the angle
  
  exist. It is of 17 and 18 degrees respectively for Fadjr and Isha prayers according to the Muslim World League.
• For Asr time according to the majority of Muslim schools, including Shafi'i, Maliki, Ja'fari, and Hanbali, it is when the length of an object shadows became equal to its length plus the length of its shadow at noon. The Hanafi schools states that the time of Asr is when an object's shadow reaches two times the length of the object itself, plus the length of its shadow at noon. The time the shadow of an object reaches
  
  times its length is given by the equation:
  
  .
• It is called for the Maghrib prayer when the sun is completely folded behind the horizon, plus 3 minutes by precaution.

 

[Tilly]

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

The company managed to do that for at least 10 years. Suddenly they've become incompetent. Curious, isn't it?

Or maybe the employees demanded they don't pray in their break times as they don't coincide at exactly the correct time? We can all play guessing games, gwiddon

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

They do not do it all at once?

So then the company can tell their workforce you can pray on your given break time but not all at once, right?

Let me guess it is different and not what you meant to write!

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

They do not have to!

What part of that is not translating in your daft head?

A company does not have to set their breaks according to your prayer time, and if you believe because that website you are using tell you that then go fuck yourself because again you are wrong!

I swear to Chaos you are a daft fucking retard hell bent on trying to convince me the company was wrong when the workers knew damn well they would lose their job and will not win any victory from this either!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

The company managed to do that for at least 10 years. Suddenly they've become incompetent. Curious, isn't it?

Guess what, a company can change their break policies any time they want and do not have to set their times according to someone prayer time.

It see you and the daft one can not understand this but please pursue that lawsuit and watch the courts laugh you out the door!

 

[ClosedCaption]

No breaks at all at this plant?

If they'd needed a smoke break, no one would have objected.

About 150 workers, most of them immigrants from Somalia, have been fired from a meat packing and distribution plant on Colorado's Eastern Plains for walking off the job to protest a workplace prayer dispute.

Walk off and yeah you're probably going to get axed

You, of course, would be completely passive in a work situation if you'd been entitled to breaks before and they were arbitrarily taken away.

And, as others have mentioned, if these workers were Christians, you'd be characterizing them as martyrs here.

Its the "it's not me so fuck 'em" Christian thing to say dont cha know

 

[OldLady]

Maybe employers should familiarise themselves with Muslim prayer time calculations too, just to be sure they don't 'offend', and then they could organise all the breaks accordingly

Prayer Time Calculations

To calculate prayer times two astronomical measures are necessary, the declination of the sun and the difference between clock time and sundial clock. This difference being the result of the eccentricity of the earth's orbit and the inclination of its axis, it is called the Equation of time. The declination of the sun is the angle between sun's rays and the equator plan.[1]

In addition to the above measures, to calculate prayer times for a specific location we need its spherical coordinates.[2]

In the following

is the time zone, and

the time equation value.

and

are the Longitude and the Latitude of the considered point, respectively.

denotes the Declination of the Sun for a given date.

An other important equation gives the time difference between when the sun hits its highest point in the sky (Dhuhr time) and any other angle

, as follow:

• Midday (Dhuhr) time is easily obtained. When the sun reaches the mid sky, time is given by:
  
• Sunrise (Chorok) and Sunset (Maghreb) time are given by
  
  , in fact it is the astronomical sunset/sunrise that occurs for
  
  . 0.833 is a slight correction that gives the actual time. So
  
  and
  
  .

If we consider the elevation of the point we should add another correction to the constant

.

• For Fajr and Isha many conventions about the angle
  
  exist. It is of 17 and 18 degrees respectively for Fadjr and Isha prayers according to the Muslim World League.
• For Asr time according to the majority of Muslim schools, including Shafi'i, Maliki, Ja'fari, and Hanbali, it is when the length of an object shadows became equal to its length plus the length of its shadow at noon. The Hanafi schools states that the time of Asr is when an object's shadow reaches two times the length of the object itself, plus the length of its shadow at noon. The time the shadow of an object reaches
  
  times its length is given by the equation:
  
  .
• It is called for the Maghrib prayer when the sun is completely folded behind the horizon, plus 3 minutes by precaution.

Jesus God. No wonder they have loud speakers on top of the mosques to announce the right time!

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Yes precisely but apparently Cargill didn't want to do that. How weird. Cargill just didn't want to give their slave immigrant workers any break at all.

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

To calculate prayer times two astronomical measures are necessary, the declination of the sun and the difference between clock time and sundial clock. This difference being the result of the eccentricity of the earth's orbit and the inclination of its axis, it is called the Equation of time. The declination of the sun is the angle between sun's rays and the equator plan.[1]

In addition to the above measures, to calculate prayer times for a specific location we need its spherical coordinates.[2]

In the following

is the time zone, and

the time equation value.

and

are the Longitude and the Latitude of the considered point, respectively.

denotes the Declination of the Sun for a given date.

An other important equation gives the time difference between when the sun hits its highest point in the sky (Dhuhr time) and any other angle

, as follow:

• Midday (Dhuhr) time is easily obtained. When the sun reaches the mid sky, time is given by:
  
• Sunrise (Chorok) and Sunset (Maghreb) time are given by
  
  , in fact it is the astronomical sunset/sunrise that occurs for
  
  . 0.833 is a slight correction that gives the actual time. So
  
  and
  
  .

If we consider the elevation of the point we should add another correction to the constant

.

• For Fajr and Isha many conventions about the angle
  
  exist. It is of 17 and 18 degrees respectively for Fadjr and Isha prayers according to the Muslim World League.
• For Asr time according to the majority of Muslim schools, including Shafi'i, Maliki, Ja'fari, and Hanbali, it is when the length of an object shadows became equal to its length plus the length of its shadow at noon. The Hanafi schools states that the time of Asr is when an object's shadow reaches two times the length of the object itself, plus the length of its shadow at noon. The time the shadow of an object reaches
  
  times its length is given by the equation:
  
  .
• It is called for the Maghrib prayer when the sun is completely folded behind the horizon, plus 3 minutes by precaution.

Gah, any Muslim taught by Common Core methods will never make it to prayers

 

[Arianrhod]

Really?

Is that what you believe?

Now it is they did not want to give their slave breaks, and if that is the case then by all means prove the company denied them the fifteen minute breaks twice in a eight hour period and the half hour lunch, and if the company did give those workers those breaks, well then asshole you just lied!

A company does not have to give them breaks all at once and does not have to grant them more breaks than what the law allows unless like another poster posted those workers had a labor contract and have a union to fight for them.

They walked off a job... They were told to return and they refused... They were fired and if no labor contract, well they are fuck unless you can prove they were denied their breaks that are required by Federal, State, Local laws...

They denied the breaks at the appropriate times, which is a reasonable accommodation.

I doubt they even got 2 fifteen minute breaks, most places don't even give you that as long as you work less than 40/hrs a week.

Appropriate times according to the employee?

Wow, now it is set by what the employee want and not what the company want. Also I wrote eight hour period and not forty work week.

The company set the break times in rotating shifts and nothing was denied to the employees, and your attempt to claim something was is just total bullshit.

Again you are allowed two break periods and a lunch in a eight hour day, and during that time they were never denied their right to prayer during their breaks, and unless you can prove they were denied their breaks then there is nothing more.

A company set the break times and rotations and does not have to shut a line down to accommodate anyone, and if the employee disagree then find another fucking job that will accommodate them and if not learn that being allowed to pray at work is a luxury and not a state given right except on your break because no one can dictate what you do during your break.

Then why didn't they just set the company breaks to their appropriate time?

The company managed to do that for at least 10 years. Suddenly they've become incompetent. Curious, isn't it?

Or maybe the employees demanded they don't pray in their break times as they don't coincide at exactly the correct time? We can all play guessing games, gwiddon

That the company allowed these workers prayer breaks for 10 years is fact. It's in the article in the OP. All you seem to have is guessing games.