My view on why our economy is pure shit.

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Try to think, the soviet model had no means to self-correct so it never did. It is only the Republican free market that is designed to self-correct. America has performed the best because it has a means to self- correct, i.e., the free market.

By that logic, the countries with the least amount of government regulation and the greatest amount of market freedom, would be the best places to live, right?

yes exactly; that is why the USA is the richest in human history. Did you think it was because of the Girl Scouts??

 

[samjones]

Fact: The housing bubble happened entirely on the Republican watch. They had the White House and both houses of Congress.

omg!!! of course thatS idiotic since Fanny Freddie and Federal Reserve are independent!!

You are either hilariously misinformed or you are trying to misinform people. HUD sets lending goals for Fan/Fred. You should know that. HUD is a cabinet department. You should know that. The President appoints the Federal Reserve Board Governers and nominates the Chairman and in the tenure of Bush II these people were *his* appointees and *his* nominee. He *appointed* Bernanke and then *nominated* him for the Chair years later.

Michael Moore jumped the gun. 9/11 may or may not have been GWB's fault. The Housing Crisis that precipitated the Financial Crisis of '08. That was 100% GWB's fault, no 2 ways around it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

This is the mentality.... Aristotle, the Founding Fathers, Freedom, Liberty, etc....All very high-minded, I know, but totally irrelvant.

if as a liberal you feel the Republican ideas of our founders and Ron Paul are irrelevant why be so afraid to provide your best example for the whole world to see? What does you fear tell you?

 

[samjones]

Try to think, the soviet model had no means to self-correct so it never did. It is only the Republican free market that is designed to self-correct.
Did you think it was because of the Girl Scouts??

Nobody's going to be casting vote based on anyone's position on Soviet Girl Scouts. It's irrelevant.

Nobody is going to believe that the government should not have and should not continue to intervene to fix the housing market. It would only make a candidate sound pointlessly heartless and cruel to say the government shouldn't do anything to stem the tide of foreclosures.

It's not feet-on-the-ground enough, Ed. You're pointless idealism is your own downfall.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You are either hilariously misinformed or you are trying to misinform people. HUD sets lending goals for Fan/Fred. You should know that. .

Responsibility was diffused over decades and broadly in government with saintly Republicans leaning toward the free market and liberals not.


Senate Banking Committee, Oct. 16, 2003:

Sen. Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.): And my worry is that we're using the recent safety and soundness concerns, particularly with Freddie, and with a poor regulator, as a straw man to curtail Fannie and Freddie's mission. And I don't think there is any doubt that there are some in the administration who don't believe in Fannie and Freddie altogether, say let the private sector do it. That would be sort of an ideological position.

Rep. Frank: I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing. . .

 

[samjones]

This is the mentality.... Aristotle, the Founding Fathers, Freedom, Liberty, etc....All very high-minded, I know, but totally irrelvant.

if as a liberal you feel the Republican ideas of our founders and Ron Paul are irrelevant why be so afraid to provide your best example for the whole world to see? What does you fear tell you?

I gave a nice little list just a few posts ago:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/econo...-our-economy-is-pure-shit-21.html#post4783780

Severe Ron Paul Whackjobbery undermines any positive influence he or his cult followers could ever have on American Politics. It's Lyndon Larouche all over again.

Irrelevant.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Nobody is going to believe that the government should not have and should not continue to intervene to fix the housing market. .

so what!!!!! No one believed Aristotle for 2000 years and many believed Hitler Stalin and Mao in a few years. See why we are positive a liberal will be slow? What other conclusion is possible?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It's Lyndon Larouche all over again.

Did Lyndon have identical beliefs to our Founders? Why don't you just go to Cuba? Why not just attack our Founders directly?? Be honest!!

 

[samjones]

And I don't think there is any doubt that there are some in the administration who don't believe in Fannie and Freddie altogether, say let the private sector do it. That would be sort of an ideological position.

Then maybe those "some" should have told Al Jackson to run a minimalist department. What was Al going to say? he answered to the Pres. They could have told Al to tell Fannie to not buy up any subprime loans.... that isn't what happened. What happened is Fannie/Fred bought as much as they could get their grubby little mitts on.

Wanna know why? Cuz it was profitable, that's why.

 

[samjones]

Nobody is going to believe that the government should not have and should not continue to intervene to fix the housing market. .

so what!!!!! No one believed Aristotle for 2000 years and many believed Hitler Stalin and Mao in a few years. See why we are positive a liberal will be slow? What other conclusion is possible?

It doesn't fucking matter. Hitler, Stalin and Mao didn't default on their subprime ARM in '09.

You idealistic claptrap does nothing to further any actual opinion you may have on anything. It's just bullshit.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What happened is Fannie/Fred bought as much as they could get their grubby little mitts on.

Wanna know why? Cuz it was profitable, that's why.

you mean they thought it would be profitable but were dead wrong. When a liberal monopoly is wrong the whole country goes down. Gee thats just what happened. To bad Barney Frank and Chris Dodd Chuck Schumer and most Democrats had not jumped on the Republican free market bandwagon.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It doesn't fucking matter. Hitler, Stalin and Mao didn't default on their subprime ARM in '09.

If I said they did default I'll pay you $10,000. Bet??. Nice try to change th esubject when you lost an debate which will always happen to a liberal.

 

[samjones]

What happened is Fannie/Fred bought as much as they could get their grubby little mitts on.

Wanna know why? Cuz it was profitable, that's why.

you mean they thought it would be profitable but were dead wrong. When a liberal monopoly is wrong the whole country goes down. Gee thats just what happened. To bad Barney Frank and Chris Dodd Chuck Schumer and most Democrats had not jumped on the Republican free market bandwagon.

Unprofitable for banks? Maybe. Unprofitable for bankers? No, of course not. The fact is that there are a bunch of people whining that a small increase in marginal tax rates amounts to class warfare, when in fact many of those people should be imprisoned and stripped of all their assets, Bernie Madoff-style for what amounts to a grand scheme to defraud.

We're too kind to the rich. They caused this mess with their greed and now they should pay for fixing it with their spoils. I agree. This includes alot of Chris Dodd's friends and contributors.

 

[IndependntLogic]

So then if markets correct themselves, deregulation is A<LWAYS a good thing? Like deregulating the CMBS market for example? Or the Junk Bond and Thrift & Loan market that was deregulated jst before the last big recession? Or the Stock market the was deregulated just before the Depression? So basically, the Libertarian Mantra is "Hey, the market will correct itself. The only price is that millions of Americans will lose everything they own.... or their health.... or their lives...."

yes deregulation is always a good thing, but it can't over come huge distorting liberal regulations like we had from Fanny Freddie FHA CRA Federal Reseerve etc etc. Is that really over your head??

Are you ever capable of posting without insult or is that just such a part of your character, you simply can't engage in a discussion?

How exactly did any of the above entities you mention affect the Junk Bond / Thrift & Loan crisis?

How about the FCC. When Pintos started blowing up, each consumer was told theirs was a unique situation. It wasn't until the Feds came in and connected the dots, then regulated the industry that car companies started ponying up the bucks. Same thing with the Corvair, the Samuari and so on.
Why? Their actuaries told them it was better to let X number of people burn to death and pay them off, than to recall the cars - until of course The Fed came along and regulated them into doing so.

Asbestos? Do you know how many people had no idea and what the odds were, that without Fed help, nothing would have changed?
Prozac? Phen Phen? e. coli? lead paint? Tainted milk?

So how many dead people is worth a "market correction"?

Because you know, Deregulation is always better.

So while I think we over-regulate in many areas, I don't believe the pamphlet-mentality that it always works.

Based on your theory, The Ukraine, Mexico and India should be the best places in the world to live!
Got your bags packed? Me either.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Unprofitable for banks? Maybe.

maybe????? the banks went bankrupt, those left are zombies, employment is still shrinking, dramatically. Think!!!

Unprofitable for bankers? No, of course not.

unemployment is not profitable

The fact is that there are a bunch of people whining that a small increase in marginal tax rates amounts to class warfare, when in fact many of those people should be imprisoned and stripped of all their assets, Bernie Madoff-style for what amounts to a grand scheme to defraud.

of course the best economists and newspapers blame the housing crisis on a liberal government designed to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

We're too kind to the rich. They caused this mess with their greed and now they should pay for fixing it with their spoils. I agree. This includes alot of Chris Dodd's friends and contributors.

of course the best economists and newspapers blame the housing crisis on a liberal government designed to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Are you ever capable of posting without insult or is that just such a part of your character, you simply can't engage in a discussion?

You are the one who says you are independent of intelligence. What do you expect? If this was 1930's Germany would you be independent of the Nazis and communists or would you pick the best of both??

 

[IndependntLogic]

Are you ever capable of posting without insult or is that just such a part of your character, you simply can't engage in a discussion?

You are the one who says you are independent of intelligence. What do you expect? If this was 1930's Germany would you be independent of the Nazis and communists or would you pick the best of both??

Ah so you can't. Well that's a good way to dodge those pecky facts and stuff I brought up. Cuz gee, Fannie Mae contributed to the T&L / Junk Bond debacle etc...

I understand there buddy. Not everyone can have discussions about issues and topics and facts and such. Especially when answers aren't found in The Little Libertarian Book of Opinions to Regurgitate.

So why isn't The Ukraine the wealthiest, best place to live in the world again?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Asbestos? Do you know how many people had no idea and what the odds were, that without Fed help, nothing would have changed?
.

The liberal assumption is that the liberal government bureaucrat knows best. This is stupid and childlike, it is like blind faith in Santa Claus or God

Jefferson's assumption was the opposite which is why he gave us very very limited government and why it produced the richest and wisest country in human history.

We just saw liberal regulation of housing cause a depression, we just saw China deregulate everywhere to save 10 million human beings from liberally regulated en masse starvation, but, like a child without the maturity to understand whats right in you face, you continue to believe in Santa Claus like any 2 year old would. What other conclusion is possible.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ah so you can't.

cant what exactly?? Why be so afraid to say???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So why isn't The Ukraine the wealthiest, best place to live in the world again?

no idea why on earth you would expect Ukraine to be wealthiest???? That absurd question ought to be enough to make you reconsider what you're doing here. You can't think because you make assumptions you don't even know you are making.

You created a strawman in your brain,i.e.,Ukraine is a perfect model of capitalism; then correctly observed it wasn't wealthy and assumed you had proof that capitalism did not create wealth as advertised. Too bad that with 5 digit inflation, other goofy programs, and massive corruption it is among the worst models for capitalism.