No Evidence

[CrusaderFrank]

Here is something new for you. Is heat a substance?

Not new for me. Heat is not a substance in physics. It is an extrinsic property of matter. If you found a blog that says otherwise, let me know. However in days of yore heat was thought to be phlogesten. (sp?)

Right...heat is not a substance...heat is defined as a transfer of kinetic energy between two systems. Guess what? So called greenhouse gasses cannot possible trap a transfer of kinetic energy in the Lower Atmosphere. Can't happen....doesn't happen...never will happen.

Can happen. Does happen. Always will.

IR from earth absorbed by CO2 within a few meters. CO2 does not re-radiate that energy. Nowhere for the energy to go but to heat the atmosphere. Do you have any other ideas where the energy goes?

But its able to heat the ocean down 700m deep, right?

 

[Crick]

Frank, the waters of the ocean are stirred by a number of forces: wind & waves, tides, thermal convection, density currents, coriolis forces, etc. The idea that many of you have put out that energy absorbed shallowly into the ocean surface cannot be drawn down by mixing but must be lost by evaporation is simply incorrect.

 

[jc456]

Frank, the waters of the ocean are stirred by a number of forces: wind & waves, tides, thermal convection, density currents, coriolis forces, etc. The idea that many of you have put out that energy absorbed shallowly into the ocean surface cannot be drawn down by mixing but must be lost by evaporation is simply incorrect.

So basically, you have no idea, nor anyone, where the warm comes from. Right?

 

[Crick]

So, basically, I know why I first put you on ignore.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What did this?

This was radiated by the atmosphere towards the surface at night.

As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, that was made with an instrument cooled to a bit below -80 degrees...All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....set an identical instrument right next to it that isn't cooled and you don't get those discrete frequencies...

All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....

Downward LWIR is the re emission of energy previously absorbed...that's why it's allowed to emit toward the warmer surface.

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence. None nadda. Cooled instrumentation. Laughable

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence.

I need evidence to agree with SSDD's claim?
That's funny, since you never had any.

 

[jc456]

What did this?

This was radiated by the atmosphere towards the surface at night.

As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, that was made with an instrument cooled to a bit below -80 degrees...All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....set an identical instrument right next to it that isn't cooled and you don't get those discrete frequencies...

All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....

Downward LWIR is the re emission of energy previously absorbed...that's why it's allowed to emit toward the warmer surface.

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence. None nadda. Cooled instrumentation. Laughable

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence.

I need evidence to agree with SSDD's claim?
That's funny, since you never had any.

Hmmm, I was thinking back radiation evidence. I get it though, when folks like you have zip, you deflect. But no worries, I knew before you posted you had shit

 

[jc456]

So, basically, I know why I first put you on ignore.

If you’re answering me, it means you can’t debate

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What did this?

This was radiated by the atmosphere towards the surface at night.

As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, that was made with an instrument cooled to a bit below -80 degrees...All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....set an identical instrument right next to it that isn't cooled and you don't get those discrete frequencies...

All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....

Downward LWIR is the re emission of energy previously absorbed...that's why it's allowed to emit toward the warmer surface.

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence. None nadda. Cooled instrumentation. Laughable

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence.

I need evidence to agree with SSDD's claim?
That's funny, since you never had any.

Hmmm, I was thinking back radiation evidence. I get it though, when folks like you have zip, you deflect. But no worries, I knew before you posted you had shit

SSDD said, "the re emission of energy previously absorbed...not spontaneous.."

That's what he said allows cooler matter to emit toward a warmer target.

But no worries, I knew before you posted you had shit

It's not nice to say that about your old buddy, SSDD.

 

[jc456]

As has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, that was made with an instrument cooled to a bit below -80 degrees...All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....set an identical instrument right next to it that isn't cooled and you don't get those discrete frequencies...

All it shows is radiation moving from a warmer atmosphere to a cooler instrument....

Downward LWIR is the re emission of energy previously absorbed...that's why it's allowed to emit toward the warmer surface.

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence. None nadda. Cooled instrumentation. Laughable

And yet after years of posting, you have zero evidence.

I need evidence to agree with SSDD's claim?
That's funny, since you never had any.

Hmmm, I was thinking back radiation evidence. I get it though, when folks like you have zip, you deflect. But no worries, I knew before you posted you had shit

SSDD said, "the re emission of energy previously absorbed...not spontaneous.."

That's what he said allows cooler matter to emit toward a warmer target.

But no worries, I knew before you posted you had shit

It's not nice to say that about your old buddy, SSDD.

Good thing I didn’t then. Any day any day.

 

[Crick]

I'd like to know if SSDD is now claiming that the mean path length of a photon through our atmosphere is measured in fractions of a millimeter. If so, I'd like to hear on what he bases that conclusion.

Then we can talk about how that affects the transmission of thermal energy through the atmosphere.

 

[jc456]

I'd like to know if SSDD is now claiming that the mean path length of a photon through our atmosphere is measured in fractions of a millimeter. If so, I'd like to hear on what he bases that conclusion.

Then we can talk about how that affects the transmission of thermal energy through the atmosphere.

It seems to me he was questioning the existence of photons.

 

[SSDD]

As has been posted here on multiple occasions, the mean path of a photon is measured in the tens of meters. You need to stop lying if you plan on getting anywhere with this discussion.

If it was millimeters, your prior argument that collisions take place thousands of time more often than radiative transfer would fall apart.

That would be IF the energy doesn't get absorbed via collision...which happens to all but one in a billion so called greenhouse gas molecules.

And you are getting close...radiative transfer is barely a bit player in the movement of energy through the troposphere...there is no radiative greenhouse effect...and as a result, no AGW.

 

[SSDD]

Here is something new for you. Is heat a substance?

Not new for me. Heat is not a substance in physics. It is an extrinsic property of matter. If you found a blog that says otherwise, let me know. However in days of yore heat was thought to be phlogesten. (sp?)

Right...heat is not a substance...heat is defined as a transfer of kinetic energy between two systems. Guess what? So called greenhouse gasses cannot possible trap a transfer of kinetic energy in the Lower Atmosphere. Can't happen....doesn't happen...never will happen.

Can happen. Does happen. Always will.

IR from earth absorbed by CO2 within a few meters. CO2 does not re-radiate that energy. Nowhere for the energy to go but to heat the atmosphere. Do you have any other ideas where the energy goes?

Off the deep end are we? That has to be the stupidest thing you have ever said. Care to take it back, or should I move that quote to my sig?

 

[SSDD]

Frank, the waters of the ocean are stirred by a number of forces: wind & waves, tides, thermal convection, density currents, coriolis forces, etc. The idea that many of you have put out that energy absorbed shallowly into the ocean surface cannot be drawn down by mixing but must be lost by evaporation is simply incorrect.

Tell me skid mark...are you with wuwei when he claims that IR from earth absorbed by CO2 within a few meters. CO2 does not re-radiate that energy? Are you also laboring under the belief that CO2 does not re radiate the energy it absorbs...that is, if it holds on to it long enough to actually emit a photon?

 

[Wuwei]

Here is something new for you. Is heat a substance?

Not new for me. Heat is not a substance in physics. It is an extrinsic property of matter. If you found a blog that says otherwise, let me know. However in days of yore heat was thought to be phlogesten. (sp?)

Right...heat is not a substance...heat is defined as a transfer of kinetic energy between two systems. Guess what? So called greenhouse gasses cannot possible trap a transfer of kinetic energy in the Lower Atmosphere. Can't happen....doesn't happen...never will happen.

Can happen. Does happen. Always will.

IR from earth absorbed by CO2 within a few meters. CO2 does not re-radiate that energy. Nowhere for the energy to go but to heat the atmosphere. Do you have any other ideas where the energy goes?

Off the deep end are we? That has to be the stupidest thing you have ever said. Care to take it back, or should I move that quote to my sig?

Maybe my comment was not clear to you. Your phrase, "trap a transfer of kinetic energy" is not clear. In an open system gas energy is free to move and cannot be literally "trapped". Let me rephrase my comment for you in more detail.

15 micron IR from earth is absorbed by CO2 within a few meters, and transfers that energy to excited CO2 molecular vibration states. There is a low probability that CO2 molecules will re-radiate vibration energy as 15 micron photons. The vibration energy is transfered directly as kinetic energy to air molecules. Otherwise there is nowhere else for the energy to go but to heat the atmosphere. Do you have any other ideas where the energy goes?

If you disagree with the above, which step do you disagree.

You can think in terms of heat as a transfer of kinetic energy between two systems. Kinetic energy is the energy of mass in motion.

Think of the kinetic energy of the vibrating molecules of earth radiating 15 micron photon energy to the vibration mode of CO2 molecules, which then transfers its vibrating energy to linear kinetic energy of air. Thereby the air heats.

I would be honored if you put this clarification in your sig in its full context.

 

[SSDD]

Here is something new for you. Is heat a substance?

Not new for me. Heat is not a substance in physics. It is an extrinsic property of matter. If you found a blog that says otherwise, let me know. However in days of yore heat was thought to be phlogesten. (sp?)

Right...heat is not a substance...heat is defined as a transfer of kinetic energy between two systems. Guess what? So called greenhouse gasses cannot possible trap a transfer of kinetic energy in the Lower Atmosphere. Can't happen....doesn't happen...never will happen.

Can happen. Does happen. Always will.

IR from earth absorbed by CO2 within a few meters. CO2 does not re-radiate that energy. Nowhere for the energy to go but to heat the atmosphere. Do you have any other ideas where the energy goes?

Off the deep end are we? That has to be the stupidest thing you have ever said. Care to take it back, or should I move that quote to my sig?

Maybe my comment was not clear to you. Your phrase, "trap a transfer of kinetic energy" is not clear. In an open system gas energy is free to move and cannot be literally "trapped". Let me rephrase my comment for you in more detail.

15 micron IR from earth is absorbed by CO2 within a few meters, and transfers that energy to excited CO2 molecular vibration states. There is a low probability that CO2 molecules will re-radiate vibration energy as 15 micron photons. The vibration energy is transfered directly as kinetic energy to air molecules. Otherwise there is nowhere else for the energy to go but to heat the atmosphere. Do you have any other ideas where the energy goes?

If you disagree with the above, which step do you disagree.

You can think in terms of heat as a transfer of kinetic energy between two systems. Kinetic energy is the energy of mass in motion.

Think of the kinetic energy of the vibrating molecules of earth radiating 15 micron photon energy to the vibration mode of CO2 molecules, which then transfers its vibrating energy to linear kinetic energy of air. Thereby the air heats.

I would be honored if you put this clarification in your sig in its full context.

A CO2 molecule in the atmosphere can not hold on to absorbed energy...and there is always somewhere else for it to go..it is a huge space...an ideal place for IR to go..it is called space...

 

[Crick]

So now you've flipped? CO2 loses its energy by radiation?

Did you think no one would notice the change?

 

[Wuwei]

A CO2 molecule in the atmosphere can not hold on to absorbed energy...and there is always somewhere else for it to go..it is a huge space...an ideal place for IR to go..it is called space...

You are an epitome of self-contradictions. You showed this email dialog from Prof. Happer more than once

IF THE CO2 MOLECULE IN AIR ABSORBS A RESONANT PHOTON, IT IS MUCH MORE LIKELY ( ON THE ORDER OF A BILLION TIMES MORE LIKELY) TO HEAT THE SURROUNDING AIR MOLECULES WITH THE ENERGY IT ACQUIRED FROM THE ABSORBED PHOTON, THAN TO RERADIATE A PHOTON AT THE SAME OR SOME DIFFERENT FREQUENCY.

So how can IR go to space if it is immediately absorbed?

You just said that space is an "ideal place for IR to go". But the fact is that Happer (and you) also said absorbed IR heats the atmosphere.

Troll

.

 

[Crick]

Frank, the waters of the ocean are stirred by a number of forces: wind & waves, tides, thermal convection, density currents, coriolis forces, etc. The idea that many of you have put out that energy absorbed shallowly into the ocean surface cannot be drawn down by mixing but must be lost by evaporation is simply incorrect.

Tell me skid mark...are you with wuwei when he claims that IR from earth absorbed by CO2 within a few meters. CO2 does not re-radiate that energy? Are you also laboring under the belief that CO2 does not re radiate the energy it absorbs...that is, if it holds on to it long enough to actually emit a photon?

Obviously, CO2 absorbs energy from IR photons and from collisions. It loses energy to IR photons and to collisions.You contended that collisions take place more often than emission. Those collisions would pass thermal energy primarily to nitrogen, oxygen and other CO2 molecules. N2 and O2 are neither GHGs and do not radiate in the IR

So, those portions of the thermal energy radiated by the warmed surface within GHG absorption bands will not escape directly to space. They will take some combination of emission/absorption, conduction and convection to finally escape, via radiation, to space. GHGs slow the release of IR and thus increase the equilibrium temperature of the planet. Your claims re compression heating are complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Wuwei]

A CO2 molecule in the atmosphere can not hold on to absorbed energy...and there is always somewhere else for it to go..it is a huge space...an ideal place for IR to go..it is called space...

They will take some combination of emission/absorption, conduction and convection to finally escape, via radiation, to space.

Expanding on what Crick said, very few of the deniers here understand that according to the Equipartition Principle, there is a huge quantity of CO2 molecules in a vibratory state simply induced by collision with air molecules, and not by IR absorption. In fact, according to that principle (well observed and demonstrated) 2/7 = 29% of all energy held by CO2 is vibratory in the 15 micron band.

Near the surface the equipartition is upset by the IR coming from the earth, where the balance is toward a higher portion of vibratory energy, but that balance is restored at higher altitudes where the energy becomes more uniformly mixed and partitioned.

The atmosphere is swarming with 15 micron radiation, not coming directly from absorption of earth IR. It is that collision-induced CO2 energy in the colder altitudes that is radiated to space.

.