No historical Jesus

[westwall]

Jesus is not a book ok?

HE is much more than that

have some respect ,....omg

Your spirituality is a beautiful thing.
The point of this thread is a lack of Historical Evidence.

Is there independent historical evidence for David? Moses? Samson? How about Noah? I find it amusing that people of today seem to think that the ancient people wrote a lot. The overwhelming majority of people could not read or write. Thus the fact that historical confirmation of this person, or that person is simply non existent for the most part. These are nothing but troll threads.

 

[Indeependent]

Jesus is not a book ok?

HE is much more than that

have some respect ,....omg

Your spirituality is a beautiful thing.
The point of this thread is a lack of Historical Evidence.

Is there independent historical evidence for David? Moses? Samson? How about Noah? I find it amusing that people of today seem to think that the ancient people wrote a lot. The overwhelming majority of people could not read or write. Thus the fact that historical confirmation of this person, or that person is simply non existent for the most part. These are nothing but troll threads.

There are no extant transcripts for any of these people. The Torah Scroll Moshe wrote MIGHT by in the Ark in The Vatican.
David's Tehillim were not written extensively as they were memorized for prayer.
The issue is if the Legends match up somewhat with what is written down.
I shudder to think about how many original documents were forever destroyed on 9/11.

 

[westwall]

Jesus is not a book ok?

HE is much more than that

have some respect ,....omg

Your spirituality is a beautiful thing.
The point of this thread is a lack of Historical Evidence.

Is there independent historical evidence for David? Moses? Samson? How about Noah? I find it amusing that people of today seem to think that the ancient people wrote a lot. The overwhelming majority of people could not read or write. Thus the fact that historical confirmation of this person, or that person is simply non existent for the most part. These are nothing but troll threads.

There are no extant transcripts for any of these people. The Torah Scroll Moshe wrote MIGHT by in the Ark in The Vatican.
David's Tehillim were not written extensively as they were memorized for prayer.
The issue is if the Legends match up somewhat with what is written down.
I shudder to think about how many original documents were forever destroyed on 9/11.

Much more was lost when the library of Alexandria was destroyed. And i think the fact that there were extensive church activities written about a mere 60 years after his demise lends credence to his existence.

 

[Boss]

In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship,Bart Ehrman wrote, "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees".

[14]Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church's imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more".

[15]Robert M. Price does not believe that Jesus existed, but agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars.

[16]James D.G. Dunn calls the theories of Jesus' non-existence "a thoroughly dead thesis".

[17]Michael Grant (a classicist) wrote in 1977, "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary".

[18]Robert E. Van Voorst states that biblical scholars and classical historians regard theories of non-existence of Jesus as effectively refuted.

Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stop overloading us with Historical Facts, I mean, Historians making statements about something they can't prove!

I'm just presenting evidence from scholars who find the notion of Jesus not existing to be laughable. You gotta problem with it, fuck you... I'm not here to follow your orders, bud.

You didn't present evidence, you presented people stating that they know what they're taking about.

Well you can click on their names and they have Wiki pages where their books and papers are referenced and you are free to go look them over any time you please.

First I'm "overloading" you, then I'm not giving you anything... you're just all over the board tonight. Sounds like, you have your mind made up and you're challenging me to change it.... and I guess you'll get to win that argument because I can't.

You never overloaded me with anything but a list of authors who all stated they knew something.
I will state that there's lot's in the Torah that's hard to prove and only time and archeology will bring about some light on the past.

Archaeology and time do not prove truths. For any truth to be proven requires faith. The Dead Sea Scrolls are archaeological evidence for most of the Old Testament... but here, it is being distorted and perverted to suggest Jesus never existed. It all comes down to our perspectives and our faith in belief of evidence.

And no... I gave you a list of scholars who are historians, researchers and writers.. all telling you that people who believe Jesus never existed are fools. The details of the evidence can be found in their books and writings, I can't present all of it here. It's overwhelming. It's certainly a belief that people have... not disputing that. It's possible Jesus never existed... haven't disputed that. But the scholars who study this shit for a living and have written books on the subject and researched it their entire lives, say that you're bat shit crazy if you think Jesus never existed.

 

[HaShev]

I think Jesus...didn't want to be remember as Jesus....

HE Wanted to be remember as LOVE.

I think he'd have preferred being remembered by his actual name -- Yeshua

I believe you mean yeshu who was the 100Bc christ son of mary, however that is not the Galilean christ in the time of Lysanias & Herod nor River Jordan AD era christ. This is why Jesus didn't exist, the figures used to make his image only make up fractions of the mythology borrowed from Baal tablets.
Furthermore proper transliteration is Y=H sound
which is why the Book of Joshua is called the book of Hosea,

 

[Alex.]

omg what a...

You think I care what you think when what you think is based on...?
I have no idea WHAT'S it based on.
And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

f off them

Who's them?
Are you getting non-Jesus like emotional?
Like the actual TNT Jesus?
But that's so not the loving cool Jesus floating in your head.

Even Jesus got pissed when the trolls, money changers and animal sellers practiced their respective crafts in the Temple.

That is why the Southern Baptists are HONEST, Fire & Brimstone Christians.
THEY read TNT, not simply listen to their Catholic Priest's speeches.

^^^
Ridiculous statement.

 

[Mac1958]

Well, this thread will no doubt change many Christian minds...

Are the threads on this board intended to change minds?

No, I'd guess most are just to flame and annoy, not unlike what might happen on a grade school playground, and this would be another example.

Why that is, who knows. There are clearly many here who are just hateful and angry and bitter and use this board to express that at every opportunity. The OP is a prime example, daily. We all do it now and then, but he is over the top.

The psychology of partisan ideology is fascinating.
.

 

[Alex.]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

 

[Indeependent]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

 

[Indeependent]

Stop overloading us with Historical Facts, I mean, Historians making statements about something they can't prove!

I'm just presenting evidence from scholars who find the notion of Jesus not existing to be laughable. You gotta problem with it, fuck you... I'm not here to follow your orders, bud.

You didn't present evidence, you presented people stating that they know what they're taking about.

Well you can click on their names and they have Wiki pages where their books and papers are referenced and you are free to go look them over any time you please.

First I'm "overloading" you, then I'm not giving you anything... you're just all over the board tonight. Sounds like, you have your mind made up and you're challenging me to change it.... and I guess you'll get to win that argument because I can't.

You never overloaded me with anything but a list of authors who all stated they knew something.
I will state that there's lot's in the Torah that's hard to prove and only time and archeology will bring about some light on the past.

Archaeology and time do not prove truths. For any truth to be proven requires faith. The Dead Sea Scrolls are archaeological evidence for most of the Old Testament... but here, it is being distorted and perverted to suggest Jesus never existed. It all comes down to our perspectives and our faith in belief of evidence.

And no... I gave you a list of scholars who are historians, researchers and writers.. all telling you that people who believe Jesus never existed are fools. The details of the evidence can be found in their books and writings, I can't present all of it here. It's overwhelming. It's certainly a belief that people have... not disputing that. It's possible Jesus never existed... haven't disputed that. But the scholars who study this shit for a living and have written books on the subject and researched it their entire lives, say that you're bat shit crazy if you think Jesus never existed.

I spent 5 years studying these blowhards and their "evidence".
I give them the same credence I give to those who try to pass off Reform and Conservative Judaism...No credence.
I know full well, for example, that you give ZERO credence to Liberal Academians.

 

[Alex.]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

" TJS" ? also what is your expertise in Religious studies?

 

[Indeependent]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

" TJS" ? also what is your expertise in Religious studies?

The Jewish Scriptures.
My expertise in Judaism & TNT...Pretty heavy.
I can read Hebrew and Aramaic.
The Talmud is in Aramaic.
I spend about 30 hours a week reading, attending classes and listening to downloads.
Been studying since 1980.
Spent 1998-2003 studying TNT reading entire Cannon 5 times verse by verse.

 

[Boss]

I spent 5 years studying these blowhards and their "evidence".
I give them the same credence I give to those who try to pass off Reform and Conservative Judaism...No credence.
I know full well, for example, that you give ZERO credence to Liberal Academians.

Then you are making my point... your mind is made up and you are challenging me to change it... I can't. You win, I guess?

The historical evidence that Jesus existed is out there, people have written about it and documented it and I've pointed you to their works but you don't want to hear what they have to say. So you've made up your mind to believe what you want to believe and nothing can change your mind. It is closed to information that contradicts your view.

Now you are free to run around saying you don't believe the evidence that Jesus existed... that's entirely your right. But you cannot argue that there's no evidence Jesus existed. You don't acknowledge the evidence but it's still there.

 

[Steven_R]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

" TJS" ? also what is your expertise in Religious studies?

The Jewish Scriptures.
My expertise in Judaism & TNT...Pretty heavy.
I can read Hebrew and Aramaic.
The Talmud is in Aramaic.
I spend about 30 hours a week reading, attending classes and listening to downloads.
Been studying since 1980.
Spent 1998-2003 studying TNT reading entire Cannon 5 times verse by verse.

Why? I mean, what's the point? I like Shakespeare, read the whole canon through, read works by his contemporaries, attend plays and so on, but even I just do it for mere entertainment. I simply like the language and the stories, but I don't study it for 30 hours a week for 35 years. I mean, that's like having a full time job on top of your full time job just to read the same books you've read over and over.

 

[Indeependent]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

" TJS" ? also what is your expertise in Religious studies?

The Jewish Scriptures.
My expertise in Judaism & TNT...Pretty heavy.
I can read Hebrew and Aramaic.
The Talmud is in Aramaic.
I spend about 30 hours a week reading, attending classes and listening to downloads.
Been studying since 1980.
Spent 1998-2003 studying TNT reading entire Cannon 5 times verse by verse.

Why? I mean, what's the point? I like Shakespeare, read the whole canon through, read works by his contemporaries, attend plays and so on, but even I just do it for mere entertainment. I simply like the language and the stories, but I don't study it for 30 hours a week for 35 years. I mean, that's like having a full time job on top of your full time job just to read the same books you've read over and over.

Nope...If you don't know Hebrew, you don't know what you're missibg.

 

[Indeependent]

I spent 5 years studying these blowhards and their "evidence".
I give them the same credence I give to those who try to pass off Reform and Conservative Judaism...No credence.
I know full well, for example, that you give ZERO credence to Liberal Academians.

Then you are making my point... your mind is made up and you are challenging me to change it... I can't. You win, I guess?

The historical evidence that Jesus existed is out there, people have written about it and documented it and I've pointed you to their works but you don't want to hear what they have to say. So you've made up your mind to believe what you want to believe and nothing can change your mind. It is closed to information that contradicts your view.

Now you are free to run around saying you don't believe the evidence that Jesus existed... that's entirely your right. But you cannot argue that there's no evidence Jesus existed. You don't acknowledge the evidence but it's still there.

Au contrar...I studied TNT looking for what over a billiion other people had faith in.
There are zero dots connecting TJS to TNT.
I was left disappointed.

 

[Boss]

I spent 5 years studying these blowhards and their "evidence".
I give them the same credence I give to those who try to pass off Reform and Conservative Judaism...No credence.
I know full well, for example, that you give ZERO credence to Liberal Academians.

Then you are making my point... your mind is made up and you are challenging me to change it... I can't. You win, I guess?

The historical evidence that Jesus existed is out there, people have written about it and documented it and I've pointed you to their works but you don't want to hear what they have to say. So you've made up your mind to believe what you want to believe and nothing can change your mind. It is closed to information that contradicts your view.

Now you are free to run around saying you don't believe the evidence that Jesus existed... that's entirely your right. But you cannot argue that there's no evidence Jesus existed. You don't acknowledge the evidence but it's still there.

Au contrar...I studied TNT looking for what over a billiion other people had faith in.
There are zero dots connecting TJS to TNT.
I was left disappointed.

I don't know what TJS and TNT are in context of our argument on whether Jesus existed.

As I posted, most scholars believe Jesus existed and the evidence is overwhelming. You are in the minority... IF you are a scholar, which I doubt.

 

[Indeependent]

I spent 5 years studying these blowhards and their "evidence".
I give them the same credence I give to those who try to pass off Reform and Conservative Judaism...No credence.
I know full well, for example, that you give ZERO credence to Liberal Academians.

Then you are making my point... your mind is made up and you are challenging me to change it... I can't. You win, I guess?

The historical evidence that Jesus existed is out there, people have written about it and documented it and I've pointed you to their works but you don't want to hear what they have to say. So you've made up your mind to believe what you want to believe and nothing can change your mind. It is closed to information that contradicts your view.

Now you are free to run around saying you don't believe the evidence that Jesus existed... that's entirely your right. But you cannot argue that there's no evidence Jesus existed. You don't acknowledge the evidence but it's still there.

Au contrar...I studied TNT looking for what over a billiion other people had faith in.
There are zero dots connecting TJS to TNT.
I was left disappointed.

I don't know what TJS and TNT are in context of our argument on whether Jesus existed.

As I posted, most scholars believe Jesus existed and the evidence is overwhelming. You are in the minority... IF you are a scholar, which I doubt.

TNT = The New Testament
TJS = The Jewish Scriptures
Show me the evidence as the scholars haven't.
I find it fascinating how you pick and choose, based on agenda, the veracity of scholars.
I need demonstrable FACTS.

 

[Alex.]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

" TJS" ? also what is your expertise in Religious studies?

The Jewish Scriptures.
My expertise in Judaism & TNT...Pretty heavy.
I can read Hebrew and Aramaic.
The Talmud is in Aramaic.
I spend about 30 hours a week reading, attending classes and listening to downloads.
Been studying since 1980.
Spent 1998-2003 studying TNT reading entire Cannon 5 times verse by verse.

That is very nice , I have taken many courses at the undergraduate and graduate level in religion to the point where it was a minor and have spent my entire adult life studying at various seminaries. I have studied this question and in the end Jesus did walk the earth. That is supported by primary sources such as the bible.

At thus juncture I will take a step back and present Harold W. Attridge:The Lillian Claus Professor of New Testament Yale Divinity School, who states:

"Speaking as a historian, why is it such a problem to know anything about the life of Jesus, and what are the sources you can draw on?

The problem in understanding Jesus as a historian begins with the fact that we have rather limited sources for reconstructing his life. Those sources are primarily the gospel traditions that we have in the New Testament, some apocryphal materials from the early Christian tradition, and some sources external to the New Testament. Those sources external to the New Testament are particularly valuable because they're not directly statements of faith, the way the New Testament materials are. Chief among those external sources is Josephus, a Jewish historian who wrote at the end of the first century and who in book 18 of his "Antiquities of the Jews," has a small passage about Jesus. He also reports about John the Baptist, and about James, the brother of Jesus. And those passages constitute the first external testimonies to the existence of Jesus by someone who was not a follower."

Jesus Many Faces - What Can We Really About Jesus | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS

What you have is a Jewish Historian who clearly stated Jesus did walk the earth in addition to his brother et al. As of yet, you have not presented any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Indeependent]

I will presume Yehusua was better looking than that.

So you are, in part, basing your opinion on how good looking Ecce Homo was?

Perhaps you can provide us with a restoration.

There are many instances in TJS where a person's beauty is specified.
This is an important facet of a person when they choose a life of dedication to God as opposed to a life of narcisism.

" TJS" ? also what is your expertise in Religious studies?

The Jewish Scriptures.
My expertise in Judaism & TNT...Pretty heavy.
I can read Hebrew and Aramaic.
The Talmud is in Aramaic.
I spend about 30 hours a week reading, attending classes and listening to downloads.
Been studying since 1980.
Spent 1998-2003 studying TNT reading entire Cannon 5 times verse by verse.

That is very nice , I have taken many courses at the undergraduate and graduate level in religion to the point where it was a minor and have spent my entire adult life studying at various seminaries. I have studied this question and in the end Jesus did walk the earth. That is supported by primary sources such as the bible.

At thus juncture I will take a step back and present Harold W. Attridge:The Lillian Claus Professor of New Testament Yale Divinity School, who states:

"Speaking as a historian, why is it such a problem to know anything about the life of Jesus, and what are the sources you can draw on?

The problem in understanding Jesus as a historian begins with the fact that we have rather limited sources for reconstructing his life. Those sources are primarily the gospel traditions that we have in the New Testament, some apocryphal materials from the early Christian tradition, and some sources external to the New Testament. Those sources external to the New Testament are particularly valuable because they're not directly statements of faith, the way the New Testament materials are. Chief among those external sources is Josephus, a Jewish historian who wrote at the end of the first century and who in book 18 of his "Antiquities of the Jews," has a small passage about Jesus. He also reports about John the Baptist, and about James, the brother of Jesus. And those passages constitute the first external testimonies to the existence of Jesus by someone who was not a follower."

Jesus Many Faces - What Can We Really About Jesus | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS

What you have is a Jewish Historian who clearly stated Jesus did walk the earth in addition to his brother et al. As of yet, you have not presented any evidence to the contrary.

Actually, what we have is Josephus and the Talmud telling various stories about people named Yeshua who could not possibly have been one person as the Tanai'm involved lived at different points in time.
Every scholar will come to his own and his boss's opinion.

Plus the Josephus "evidence" has been debunked time and again.
Shame on any Academian who utilizes it.
Josephus' Account of Jesus: The Testimonium Flavianum