Zone1 No Wonder Why I Had Doubts In God's Existence Before

[Blues Man]

I'm so sorry. Why do you feel you don't matter?

Remember the Serenity Prayer? God grant me the serenity to accept things I cannot change, courage to change things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

I am not such an egomaniac or so arrogant as to believe I can change the world by micromanaging each individual life. I do focus on my sphere of influence, as small as that sphere is.


What "other people" do seems to really disturb you. Are you so perfect and live in such a perfect place you need give no thought to your own self improvement or the expansion of your own horizons? That might be more fulfilling than spending your time judging others--including God.

You have a small part of the world. Change that.

I know a matter to a few people and that's enough for me. In the larger picture of the world or the universe I really don't. And I'm perfectly at peace with that. It would be egotistical to believe anything else.

And saying that in the larger scheme of things I don't really matter in no way means I do nothing anywhere or for anyone else. I really don't know how you made that leap.

And I am far more perplexed at the behaviors of people than I am disturbed. I have accepted that people do both horrible and wonderful things to each other and accept that the idea of some utopia where people stop doing horrible things to each other will never exist.

 

[Blues Man]

It's the basis for the success of Western Civilization. It's called the happiness advantage.

Religious faith is not the basis of success of civilization. People can be happy without religious faith. You saying that people can't be is more of your own bias that you deny you have.

 

[Blues Man]

I just read this AM an article on the cleanliness of the Western Cowboy era, or the lack of I mean. I want to point to religion as the cleanliness of the soul. Notice when sentenced to death, the typical convict turns to religion. To clean his soul.

It's called fear of death. It's one of the main reasons people invented religion in the first place.

 

[Blues Man]

Sure there is. Existence itself is the evidence (i.e. the creation and evolution of space and time)

As I told Allen G in this thread... The only evidence is indirect evidence. And you have rejected every single piece of indirect evidence. So it's a fair question to ask of you... what evidence are you looking for exactly? Because I don't believe you are genuine in that. You don't even have a reasonable perception of God, so I am wondering how in the hell you can say honestly that you have made a reasonable effort.

No it isn't. If it was everyone would believe in gods.

You are doing nothing but falling into the god of the gaps fallacy. everything we can't explain has an answer. A god did it.

 

[Blues Man]

Which means you must believe you know nothing at all.

We know what we perceive and if we don't perceive everything as it actually is we can never know the objective reality of anything.

And we do not perceive everything as it actually is do we?

We can know all kinds of shit but objective reality isn't one of them

 

[Blues Man]

That would require them to be objective. And according to you, no one can ever be objective and know anything.

There you go. The paradox of knowing.

 

[Blues Man]

Again... this means you must believe you know nothing at all and are unable to see reality.

All humans are unable to perceive objective reality.

If we can artificially create perceptions in the brain that a person will think are real then the idea of an objective reality is disproven.

And we can do this already and in time we will be even better at it than we are now.

 

[Robert W]

No it isn't. If it was everyone would believe in gods.

You are doing nothing but falling into the god of the gaps fallacy. everything we can't explain has an answer. A god did it.

That is an example of taking things way too far.

I must think when you say gods, you mean a family of GODS that has the creator as the head.

Start with the proposal that at a point in early history, that there was no such thing as the universe we currently see. That the area was an expanse with nothing at all in it. Then one moves from nothing at all, to what you now have. And the creator of that is known by the title of GOD. But the nonsense GOD manages your life is what I call nonsense.

 

[BULLDOG]

What exactly does acceptance of Jesus mean in practical terms? Because Matthew 7:21-23 seems to be saying your simplistic interpretation of Christianity is wrong. In fact, doesn't Jesus explicitly state that entrance into the kingdom of heaven can only be achieved by doing the will of his father in heaven?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’​

You've just pointed out one of the major schisms in Christianity. There are many.

 

[BULLDOG]

There are a few denominations of Christianity that teach this, but they are in the minority. Catholics and Orthodox teach redemption of all the world, and that the way of salvation is open to everyone.

John 14:6

 

[Blues Man]

That is an example of taking things way too far.

I must think when you say gods, you mean a family of GODS that has the creator as the head.

Start with the proposal that at a point in early history, that there was no such thing as the universe we currently see. That the area was an expanse with nothing at all in it. Then one moves from nothing at all, to what you now have. And the creator of that is known by the title of GOD. But the nonsense GOD manages your life is what I call nonsense.

I use gods as the word is defined in the dictionary. Small g god

We really don't know if one single all powerful being exists or even if many exist, or even if what we think of as gods are just simply more advanced beings that might not know where the universe came from.

Making the word a proper noun is a religious convention and I am not religious.

 

[Meriweather]

John 14:6

The entirety of scripture....proof texting is meaningless and it is usually out of context. Most often they are used to build those artificial gaps.

 

[Meriweather]

Making the word a proper noun is a religious convention and I am not religious.

Yet you engage people who are, stepping into their holy ground. You complain about and decry the problems this world faces, but you, yourself, do not take even the small courtesy of capitalizing God in a religion forum, speaking to people of faith. As I mentioned before: Want to make the world a better place, then start with your own small sphere and respect where you are.

 

[Meriweather]

And saying that in the larger scheme of things I don't really matter in no way means I do nothing anywhere or for anyone else. I really don't know how you made that leap.

I didn't make a leap. I quoted you:

My personal life is meaningless in the larger picture.

As our personal lives are a part of the larger picture, none are meaningless. But perhaps I should have asked, What do you consider the "larger picture" and what makes it so? Have you considered that you may be the larger picture, and the rest of the chaos in the outside world is simply a very small part of your world?

 

[Meriweather]

and accept that the idea of some utopia where people stop doing horrible things to each other will never exist.

Then the people in your personal life are doing horrible things to you?

 

[ding]

You've just pointed out one of the major schisms in Christianity.

Actually it's not, that's just what you wish. The issue that you believe is a major schism in Christianity is in reality an issue of interpretation. Which you seem to have fallen victim to with your post that I was addressing.

 

[ding]

There are many.

Feel free to catalog them. Then we can see if your description of "many" is objective or subjective. I'm betting on subjective.

 

[ding]

Religious faith is not the basis of success of civilization. People can be happy without religious faith. You saying that people can't be is more of your own bias that you deny you have.

Faith and practices go hand in hand, so yeah it is. Maybe if you understood the science behind the happiness advantage you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Or maybe not. Like you said before, you can't be objective about anything.

 

[ding]

It's called fear of death. It's one of the main reasons people invented religion in the first place.

That's an intellectually weak argument.

 

[ding]

No it isn't. If it was everyone would believe in gods.

You are doing nothing but falling into the god of the gaps fallacy. everything we can't explain has an answer. A god did it.

I already addressed this. They wouldn't necessarily believe in God because they are subjective. You prove this every time you dismiss the indirect evidence for God. It would be kind of hard for you to admit they would be objective after you stated you believe no one can ever be objective.

Arguing the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence is not a god of the gaps argument. It's an argument of intention. There are no gaps in the universe popping into existence. There are no gaps in intelligence being hardwired into the fabric of matter and the laws of nature. Although I expect you to argue it's not because you have already admitted you can't be objective about anything.