Number of guns in society falling sharply

[The Rabbi]

Big slug, little powder. I can see why they retooled to the 30-30 for the 1894 model. I have a 1926 purchased 94. Perfect condition.

Not really. The 32-20 was the .357SIG of its day: slim light bullet moving fast. They made both rifle and pistol ammo for it and people blew up their revolvers shooting the rifle ammo. It's a little light for deer but I'm sure brought plenty down. Now, the 30-30, that's one of my favorite guns. Very undervalued as a defensive gun.

What do you think about the Rossi Rio Grande in 30-30?

The Rossi's are very good guns. I've had several through the shop and been impressed with the quality for the price.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Not really. The 32-20 was the .357SIG of its day: slim light bullet moving fast. They made both rifle and pistol ammo for it and people blew up their revolvers shooting the rifle ammo. It's a little light for deer but I'm sure brought plenty down. Now, the 30-30, that's one of my favorite guns. Very undervalued as a defensive gun.

What do you think about the Rossi Rio Grande in 30-30?

The Rossi's are very good guns. I've had several through the shop and been impressed with the quality for the price.

i had a Rossi 22 pump

until it and all my others

fell into the river in a terrible boating mishap

nice rifle

 

[hortysir]

Reported gun ownership. What about all the guns stolen, bought and resold by criminals? They couldn't be included in the survey because there is no way to trace them.

Exactly my first thought.
Given the stigma that mainstream America would put on gun owners, I'm sure that there's a significant number of people withholding their true number of guns.

(I have only 2)

 

[Saigon]

Reported gun ownership. What about all the guns stolen, bought and resold by criminals? They couldn't be included in the survey because there is no way to trace them.

Exactly my first thought.
Given the stigma that mainstream America would put on gun owners, I'm sure that there's a significant number of people withholding their true number of guns.

(I have only 2)

Yes, definitely.

But firstly - that has always been the case, so would not change the chart.

Secondly, people chose to take part in this survey. Why do that and then lie?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Number of guns in society falling sharply

Nothng presetned here shows that the number of guns in society has fallen.
Nothing.

Yea, there is no way there are less guns now than 20 or 30 years ago.

That is not what the survey measures.
The survey measures how many households have guns.
That isa very big difference.

Your claim is:

Number of guns in society falling sharply

Nothng presetned here shows that the number of guns in society has fallen.
Nothing.

You are lying.

 

[Saigon]

M14 -

Nothng presetned here shows that the number of guns in society has fallen.

Except the three linked studies, of course.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 -

Nothng presetned here shows that the number of guns in society has fallen.

Except the three linked studies, of course.

This is a lie, as you know that none of the studies say any such thing.
It is impossible for you to prove your assertion that the number of guns in society has fallen.

 

[Saigon]

M14 -

My claim here is exactly that made by the three studies - that the number of households keeping guns is down.

My thread title had to be shortened to fit - my apology if that confused you, but I have said that perhaps a dozen times during this thread.

btw. Do give the 'liar' word a rest - I've been nothing but honest and have no reason to be otherwise.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 -
My claim here is exactly that made by the three studies - that the number of households keeping guns is down.

My thread title had to be shortened to fit - my apology if that confused you, but I have said that perhaps a dozen times during this thread.

Fact of the matter is that you claimed something that you know is false and that you know you cannot prove.
This makes you a liar.

 

[Saigon]

M14 Shooter -

And again, I think three linked studies constitutes more proof than what you have presented - which is nothing whatsoever.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 Shooter -

And again, I think three linked studies constitutes more proof than what you have presented - which is nothing whatsoever.

You made a claim; it is therefore fully up to you to prove that claim.

It so happens that said claim is false, that you know it to be false and that you know you cannot prove said claim.

This makes you a liar.

 

[Saigon]

M14 -

And again, the three linked studies constitute proof.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 -
And again, the three linked studies constitute proof.

Another lie, as you know that none of those studies even remotely substantiates your claim that the umber of guns in society is falling sharply.

 

[westwall]

Reported gun ownership. What about all the guns stolen, bought and resold by criminals? They couldn't be included in the survey because there is no way to trace them.

Exactly my first thought.
Given the stigma that mainstream America would put on gun owners, I'm sure that there's a significant number of people withholding their true number of guns.

(I have only 2)

Yes, definitely.

But firstly - that has always been the case, so would not change the chart.

Secondly, people chose to take part in this survey. Why do that and then lie?

So in other words those who chose NOT to take part are not included so you have a self selected group of individuals making up the survey representation.

In other words the survey isn't representative, nor robust.

Thank you for clarifying that for us.

 

[Uncensored2008]

M14 -

Except the three linked studies, of course.

They say nothing of the sort. They claim that the PERCENTAGE of households with guns has declined.

No one is stupid enough to claim the total number of guns has declined.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 -

Except the three linked studies, of course.

They say nothing of the sort. They claim that the PERCENTAGE of households with guns has declined.

No one is stupid enough to claim the total number of guns has declined.

Except Saigon, who claimed just that.

 

[Missourian]

Exactly my first thought.
Given the stigma that mainstream America would put on gun owners, I'm sure that there's a significant number of people withholding their true number of guns.

(I have only 2)

Yes, definitely.

But firstly - that has always been the case, so would not change the chart.

Secondly, people chose to take part in this survey. Why do that and then lie?

So in other words those who chose NOT to take part are not included so you have a self selected group of individuals making up the survey representation.

In other words the survey isn't representative, nor robust.

Thank you for clarifying that for us.

Excellent point.

 

[The Rabbi]

So let's summarize so far.
Saigon claims in his thread title that the number of guns in society has declined sharply. He offers proof from 3 studies that surveyed household gun ownership. Household gun ownership is not identical with the number of guns in society. In fact it is irrelevant to it.
The surveys themselves vary in their results by a very large factor (from 35% to 54% I think). They are based on random telephone intervews. The difficulty with obtaining reliable data from such interviews has been at least partially outlined. Additionally many people are actually prohibited but own guns anyway. They would certainly not admit to a stranger to committing a felony. The survey sample in one case was a mere 2000 people. That survey would suffer from sample bias. The small sample, the direct nature of the question, the sensitivity of the subject would all suggest the results would be unreliable. The enormous variance among the surveys confirms that.
Additionally Saigon wants to claim that it is this decline which accounts for declining crime rates across the U.S.
Crime in the U.S. was declining even when gun ownership was on the rise. Other factors can explain that decline, which every other western country experienced in the same time period as well. The decline occurred more in states which had liberalized gun ownership and less in ones that made it stricter.

So the claim that the number of guns in society decreased is clearly false.
The claim that the number of households owning guns is extremely suspect, to the point of being false.
The claim that the smaller number of households with guns accounts for the lower crime rate is false.

Saigon has posted false claims and offered dubious proof to back them up.

Let's all neg the little bastard.

 

[Missourian]

147.65 million background checks in the last 12 years.

The total adult population of the United States...240 million.
​

 

[hortysir]

Thread Busters