Parents in red-leaning suburbs outside NYC green-lighting armed security at public schools

[JoeB131]

Then why did they respond and say they didn't follow procedure?

Politics.

What are you waiting for?

For the politicians to stop sucking NRA dick.

 

[DukeU]

Politics.


For the politicians to stop sucking NRA dick.

NRA had nothing to do with the FBI not following their own procedures.

 

[JoeB131]

NRA had nothing to do with the FBI not following their own procedures.

Sure it did. Our gun laws are intentionally weak because the NRA spends all it's time suing the government over even the most sane, common sense gun law.

No wonder the FBI doesn't want to get involved.

Look what happened when they stopped those gun nuts who wanted to kidnap the governor of Michigan; you all made it out like they were the bad guys.

 

[DukeU]

Sure it did. Our gun laws are intentionally weak because the NRA spends all it's time suing the government over even the most sane, common sense gun law.

No wonder the FBI doesn't want to get involved.

Look what happened when they stopped those gun nuts who wanted to kidnap the governor of Michigan; you all made it out like they were the bad guys.

As pointed out by 2aguy in post #114, mass shootings are extremely rare considering how many guns there are in this country.

And most are in "gun free" zones.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Nope, it's not the FBI's job to do background checks for guns. It's the ATF's.

But I had a much simpler solution. Make the gun industry responsible for background checks, and make them 100% liable when they sell to the wrong person.

And make the alcohol industry responsible for background checks and hold them a 100% liable when a drunk driver injures or kills anyone.

 

[Bell Huey]

Nope, it's not the FBI's job to do background checks for guns. It's the ATF's.

But I had a much simpler solution. Make the gun industry responsible for background checks, and make them 100% liable when they sell to the wrong person.

Nope, it's not the FBI's job to do background checks for guns. It's the ATF's.

It is the FBI's job.

Where does the gun background check system get all this information?​

To ascertain whether an applicant should be disqualified from owning a gun, the FBI draws from three databases. The Interstate Identification Index is a giant repository of criminal convictions used by an array of law enforcement agencies for a range of purposes. The National Crime Information Center, or NCIC, is an “electronic clearinghouse” of other criminal justice records, including protective orders and disposition records. Finally, there’s the NICS Indices, which include records contributed by federal, state and local agencies specifically flagging individuals prohibited from buying a gun.

The NICS Indices hold records that wouldn’t necessarily show up in the other two solely criminal databases. That includes those related to mental health and immigration status. However, some states like Connecticut add nearly all prohibiting records to the NICS Indices because they typically result in a quick denial, without any need for further investigation by the FBI.

Everything You Need to Know About Federal Background Checks

A step-by-step guide to NICS, which vets anyone who attempts to buy a gun through a federally licensed firearms dealer.

www.thetrace.org

 

[JoeB131]

As pointed out by @2aguy in post #114, mass shootings are extremely rare considering how many guns there are in this country.

600 a year is not rare. Of course, 2TinyGuy will tell you that most of them don't count because not enough people died, or it was just Darkies getting shot, or whatever bullshit he comes up with to downplay the problem.

Here's the thing . Japan has NO mass shootings. European countries RARELY have mass shootings. Canada RARELY has mass shootings.

We have so many we can't keep track of them.

Why, because those countries start with "Why should we let you have a gun". We start with "Why can't I have a gun?"

 

[DukeU]

600 a year is not rare. Of course, 2TinyGuy will tell you that most of them don't count because not enough people died, or it was just Darkies getting shot, or whatever bullshit he comes up with to downplay the problem.

Here's the thing . Japan has NO mass shootings. European countries RARELY have mass shootings. Canada RARELY has mass shootings.

We have so many we can't keep track of them.

Why, because those countries start with "Why should we let you have a gun". We start with "Why can't I have a gun?"

Japan has no immigration problem.

Europe on the other hand.

Europe Shows a Clear Link Between Immigration and Crime -- Like …

 

[JoeB131]

Japan has no immigration problem.

Europe on the other hand.

Most gun violence is people who are born here.

Immigrants actually stay out of trouble, because they don't want to screw up their immigration cases.

 

[DukeU]

Most gun violence is people who are born here.

Immigrants actually stay out of trouble, because they don't want to screw up their immigration cases.

Tell us more about how shootings are rare in Europe.


Since 2018, Swedish authorities have recorded an estimated 500 bombings, while what they describe as gang shootings have become increasingly common.
But Sweden’s crime spike is not an anomaly in Europe, as homicides have risen during the last decade across the European Union, from Hungary and Germany to Denmark and Finland. An analysis of EU and United Nations crime data by RealClearInvestigations shows that, as in Sweden, the broader crime wave is strongly correlated with immigration.
“The country-level data for EU countries keeps track of immigration data that allows you to look at many different places over time in a way that we simply aren’t able to do looking across U.S. states,” said Carl Moody, an economics professor at William & Mary College who specializes in criminology.

Currently, however, crime statistics in the U.S. generally do not allow researchers to make definitive conclusions on how much illegal immigrants may have influenced the rise in violent crime. Because of the political sensitivity of the question, almost no state officials keep track of the immigration status of prisoners in their jails.

 

[JoeB131]

Tell us more about how shootings are rare in Europe.

Compared to the US, definitely...

The Health Costs of Gun Violence: How the U.S. Compares to Other Countries

This chartpack illustrates how gun violence affects Americans compared to people in 13 other high-income countries.

www.commonwealthfund.org

 

[2aguy]

Except we have 600 mass shootings a year, and you can maybe find one or two when a "Good guy" stopped it before the body count got too high.




Nope, sounds like an exact problem.

We can't lock people up for what they say.

We have 70 million Americans with police records and 18% of the population suffers from some kind of mental illness. We can't lock them all up.

We can and should make it harder for these people to get guns.

We don't have 600 mass shootings a year you lying asshole.

The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

US mass shootings, 1982–2023: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

2023....12

2022...12

2021...6

2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1

School shootings...

2023....1
2022.....1
2021....1
2020....0
2019....0
2018.....2
2017....0
2016...0
2015....1 (community college)
2014...1
2013.....0
2012....2
2011....0
2010...0
2006.....1

1999.......1

1998.....2

1992....1

1989....1


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Bicycles killed 891 (2020)

Deer kill 200 people a year.....

Lawn mowers between 90-100 people a year....

Ladders 300 people a year....

bathtubs 350 people a year...

Cars killed over 39,000 people in 2019...



Total number of people killed in mass public shootings by year...

2023...75
2022....74
2021...43
2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

 

[2aguy]

Compared to the US, definitely...

The Health Costs of Gun Violence: How the U.S. Compares to Other Countries

This chartpack illustrates how gun violence affects Americans compared to people in 13 other high-income countries.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Law abiding people with guns save lives.


600 million guns in private hands......over 22.01 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



https://crimeresearch.org/2022/11/concealed-carry-permit-holders-across-the-united-states-2021-2/



American use those legal guns 1.2 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....





Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



There are roughly 100,000 people shot in the United States yearly, and something over 30,000 die. If this 1/3 vs. 2/3 ratio of deaths to injuries in actual shootings pertains in these DGUs, that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.



that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/defensive-gun-use-savings-dwarf-gun-violence-costs/

 

[JoeB131]

We don't have 600 mass shootings a year you lying asshole.

See, he can't help himself.

Mass shooting - any incident where more than one person is killed or injured.

We have 600 plus of those a year.

 

[AZrailwhale]

600 a year is not rare. Of course, 2TinyGuy will tell you that most of them don't count because not enough people died, or it was just Darkies getting shot, or whatever bullshit he comes up with to downplay the problem.

Here's the thing . Japan has NO mass shootings. European countries RARELY have mass shootings. Canada RARELY has mass shootings.

We have so many we can't keep track of them.

Why, because those countries start with "Why should we let you have a gun". We start with "Why can't I have a gun?"

There are THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION people in the USA. 600 is not even a rounding error. I will put in numbers so even you can count the zeros: 330,000,000 vs 600. Six hundred goes into three hundred thirty million five hundred and fifty times. It's so small a percentage, it's not even a rounding error.

 

[JoeB131]

There are THREE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION people in the USA. 600 is not even a rounding error. I will put in numbers so even you can count the zeros: 330,000,000 vs 600. Six hundred goes into three hundred thirty million five hundred and fifty times. It's so small a percentage, it's not even a rounding error.

Is that like saying that we shouldn't worry about terrorism in the airport because most planes are never hijacked.

600 mass shootings a year is too many.

We shouldn't have to live this way, with militarized police, active shooter drills, metal detectors, etc. because some of you have a gun fetish you can't control.

 

[MarathonMike]

You have common sense gun laws, and don't give out military-grade weapons to crazy people.

All kinds of examples blow up your solution. Sandy Hook being the most obvious. I'll assume you know the details of Sandy Hook.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Is that like saying that we shouldn't worry about terrorism in the airport because most planes are never hijacked.

600 mass shootings a year is too many.

We shouldn't have to live this way, with militarized police, active shooter drills, metal detectors, etc. because some of you have a gun fetish you can't control.

I never worried about hijacking.

As everyone on this board has told you, people like me aren’t the problem with gun violence. The criminals and insane that people that people like you insist on allowing to run free are the problem. Out of the 600 mass shootings you claim happened, At least 588 were committed by known criminals, almost always killing other known criminals. If those criminal shooters had been in prison for their previous crimes, their criminal victims would still be alive, robbing, raping and killing other people.

 

[JoeB131]

All kinds of examples blow up your solution. Sandy Hook being the most obvious. I'll assume you know the details of Sandy Hook.

Um, yeah, a crazy woman bought a whole bunch of guns she didn't need, taught her even crazier kid how to shoot them, let him play first shooter video games all day, and then had a stupid look on her face when he shot her after she started talking about dumping him in a home.

Sadly, that crazy kid went on to kill 26 more people. (Unless you are Dale Smith, and you thought they were all crisis actors.)

NOW- common sense gun laws, people would have looked into Nancy's life and realized she was a crazy prepper, and cut her off. They'd have found she had a mentally disturbed child in the home and removed all the guns under a red flag law.

 

[JoeB131]

As everyone on this board has told you, people like me aren’t the problem with gun violence. The criminals and insane that people that people like you insist on allowing to run free are the problem. Out of the 600 mass shootings you claim happened, At least 588 were committed by known criminals, almost always killing other known criminals. If those criminal shooters had been in prison for their previous crimes, their criminal victims would still be alive, robbing, raping and killing other people.

All it takes is one bad day...