Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[ding]

We don't know because you haven't stated your acceptance or rejection of the story. You don't have to say either way, but that then becomes the lie you have to live with. Would you like to choose and make it publicly known?

And yet in post #555 you were so certain you knew what I believed about the account of Adam and Eve that you labeled it a lie.

Please tell me how you can label my belief about the account of Adam and Eve a lie if you don't know what that belief is.

 

[Donald H]

Belief in a creator and evolution are not mutually exclusive propositions. Why do you believe they are?

We'll have to keep disagreeing on that my friend. Will we ever get to debating the question? It's not likely on account of you not stating a clear and rational explanation.

The reason being, any explanation offered is only one of many different explanations that contradict.

1. There is only the bible's truth on the question of Adam and Eve and it doesn't include human evolution.

Some story that can make the two work together.

2. There was never an Adam and Eve in a garden of eden.

The Catholic church seems to have settled temporarily with something between the middle and #2.

 

[Donald H]

And yet in post #555 you were so certain you knew what I believed about the account of Adam and Eve that you labeled it a lie.

No, that's not what I said there.

Please tell me how you can label my belief about the account of Adam and Eve a lie if you don't know what that belief is.

I'll make the lie conditional on hearing your truth. But I know from previous experience with you that your belief needs to be that you believe in both. Isn't now a good time to tell us?

Yes, I know that you think you don't have to say!

 

[Donald H]

Belief in a creator and evolution are not mutually exclusive propositions. Why do you believe they are?

That's not the question and you can't slip the 'creator' into the discussion and expect it to go unnoticed.

You need to make the Adam and Eve story work with human evolution.

Fwiw, so far the best attempt seems to be Nat.Geo's Mitochondrial Eve, but no Christians want to go there for an explanation..

 

[hobelim]

You need to make the Adam and Eve story work with human evolution.

Well, about 3000 years ago Moses wrote a fairy tale to educate Hebrew children and people recently freed from Egyptian slavery about the dangers of being "beguiled" into the bondage of cultic practices and losing your sanity for life, depicting the talking serpent, a reference to the Pharaoh who wore a serpent on his head, as the lowest of all lowlifes and human archetypes.

"Lower than cattle and all the wild beasts of the field", a reference to other human archetypes.


Apparently Ding never understood the teaching and has lost his sanity after a talking serpent told him that he could worship a trinity in the form of a matzo made by human hands and not die.

How stupid is that! Reality is by far more bizarre than any fairy tale ever written....

 

[ding]

We'll have to keep disagreeing on that my friend. Will we ever get to debating the question? It's not likely on account of you not stating a clear and rational explanation.

The reason being, any explanation offered is only one of many different explanations that contradict.

1. There is only the bible's truth on the question of Adam and Eve and it doesn't include human evolution.

Some story that can make the two work together.

2. There was never an Adam and Eve in a garden of eden.

The Catholic church seems to have settled temporarily with something between the middle and #2.

You can disagree all you want, but evolution has been occurring since the universe popped into existence.

 

[ding]

No, that's not what I said there.

I'll make the lie conditional on hearing your truth. But I know from previous experience with you that your belief needs to be that you believe in both. Isn't now a good time to tell us?

Yes, I know that you think you don't have to say!

So what you are saying is that you were blowing smoke out of your ass when you said I was lying to myself.

 

[ding]

That's not the question and you can't slip the 'creator' into the discussion and expect it to go unnoticed.

You need to make the Adam and Eve story work with human evolution.

Fwiw, so far the best attempt seems to be Nat.Geo's Mitochondrial Eve, but no Christians want to go there for an explanation..

It absolutely is the question. Why do you believe belief in a creator and evolution are mutually exclusive propositions? There's no good reason to believe they are mutually exclusive.

 

[Donald H]

It absolutely is the question. Why do you believe belief in a creator and evolution are mutually exclusive propositions? There's no good reason to believe they are mutually exclusive.

The question you are trying to avoid is explaining how the Adam and Eve tale can believed at the same time as you believing in human evolution.

That's your lie.

 

[hobelim]

There's only peace, joy and happiness. I have chosen the better portion and it will not be taken from me

 

[hobelim]

The question you are trying to avoid is explaining how the Adam and Eve tale can believed at the same time as you believing in human evolution.

That's your lie.

He must not have noticed that when the children of Adam and Eve wanted a mate THEY WENT TO A CITY missing the entire point of what constitutes a "living being" taken from the 'dust of the earth' as if he was literally a corpse without "the breath of life". (known as the Ankh in Egypt)

And some people don't believe in fairy tales. Imagine that!

 

[Donald H]

He must not have noticed that when the children of Adam and Eve wanted a mate THEY WENT TO A CITY missing the entire point of what constitutes a "living being" taken from the 'dust of the earth' as if he was literally a corpse without "the breath of life". (known as the Ankh in Egypt)

And some people don't believe in fairy tales. Imagine that!

Ding is trying to be a happy idiot but he won't dare take the easy way out by calling human evolution baloney. He's too smart to be able to find comfort with any of the bibles' nonsense tales such as the 'ark' thing or the big fish, whale.

Our Backagain character is the only one who is honest enough to say that he believes in a literal bible. The other Christians are shamed into silence, or having tto live the lie of 'two opposing beliefs' as one.

Until a better explanation, we'll have to believe that Eve got it on with the common ancestor of Chimps and Humans.

 

[Blackrook]

Religion is needed by people who fear death and want to believe there's a better world on the other side of it.

 

[ding]

You and Donny are my two favorite subversive trolls.

 

[ding]

Ding is trying to be a happy idiot but he won't dare take the easy way out by calling human evolution baloney. He's too smart to be able to find comfort with any of the bibles' nonsense tales such as the 'ark' thing or the big fish, whale.

Our Backagain character is the only one who is honest enough to say that he believes in a literal bible. The other Christians are shamed into silence, or having tto live the lie of 'two opposing beliefs' as one.

Until a better explanation, we'll have to believe that Eve got it on with the common ancestor of Chimps and Humans.

Thanks, comrade.

 

[ding]

The question you are trying to avoid is explaining how the Adam and Eve tale can believed at the same time as you believing in human evolution.

That's your lie.

You mean based upon YOUR idiotic interpretation of Adam and Eve, right?

 

[ding]

Sounds like an excellent bull ring discussion.

 

[ding]

Well, about 3000 years ago Moses wrote a fairy tale to educate Hebrew children and people recently freed from Egyptian slavery about the dangers of being "beguiled" into the bondage of cultic practices and losing your sanity for life, depicting the talking serpent, a reference to the Pharaoh who wore a serpent on his head, as the lowest of all lowlifes and human archetypes.

"Lower than cattle and all the wild beasts of the field", a reference to other human archetypes.


Apparently Ding never understood the teaching and has lost his sanity after a talking serpent told him that he could worship a trinity in the form of a matzo made by human hands and not die.

How stupid is that! Reality is by far more bizarre than any fairy tale ever written....

Cool story. Now here's the truth about the first eleven chapters of the bible.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if YOU start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

YOU have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. YOU shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, YOU are so far removed from these events that YOU have no idea of their original meaning. If YOU were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. YOU read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make yourself feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. But all you are really doing is showing me how intellectually inferior you are to me. So please stop wasting my time with your third grade arguments.

 

[ding]

Ding is trying to be a happy idiot but he won't dare take the easy way out by calling human evolution baloney. He's too smart to be able to find comfort with any of the bibles' nonsense tales such as the 'ark' thing or the big fish, whale.

Our Backagain character is the only one who is honest enough to say that he believes in a literal bible. The other Christians are shamed into silence, or having tto live the lie of 'two opposing beliefs' as one.

Until a better explanation, we'll have to believe that Eve got it on with the common ancestor of Chimps and Humans.

You don't possess the intellectual capacity for this discussion.

 

[Donald H]

You don't possess the intellectual capacity for this discussion.

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Your old man's a dustman. The man who was a dust man, did he wear a dustman's hat?

People older than the Chinese believed in a magic man in the sky. Breathing into a dead man's nose is another novel explanation that doesn't work together with Darwinian evolution, and especially nothing to do with Adam and Eve in some garden.

Is this your final choice?