Replace the ACA with single payer

[francoHFW]

We did it that way under W. Costs doubled just under him. The cost rise bent down under ACA and now Trump can fix it- since the GOP obstructed any of that under Obama. It is going to be tinkered with forever....

 

[Billy000]

Yes obviously increasing competition lowers prices in general, but that doesn't mean the increase in competition would be even nearly enough to make healthcare more affordable for the poor. Where is the viability in even trying this strategy for the industry? Christ if a insurance company wanted to, they could drastically lower their prices to make their care more affordable but they don't do they? It's because they already make a killing off of the prices they have now.

If a price is lowered, it's obviously more affordable to everyone. Businesses exist to make the owner money. If they don't make money, there's no reason for that business to exist. Naturally, if someone has literally no money, they can't afford anything. That's what charity is for, and programs to get them interviews. If they can't pull themselves up in a capitalist system, it's their own fault.

Again, they exist to make money, hence everything having a price. It's called making a living.

Lol none of this shallow reasoning of yours changes the fact that healthcare prices haven't been affordable for the poor for decades.

If you have no money, nothing is affordable. By your logic, everything should be 'free', which is Socialism, which was implemented by the USSR, which destroyed their Nation for 90 years and caused their economy to collapse. If you want everything affordable for those who have no money, move to Venezuela. People who can't make it on their own due to lack of motivation and laziness don't deserve to have things paid for by others for them, and therefor don't NEED to be able to afford anything. You Liberals keep complaining that we're the only Nation that doesn't do this, that, or the other thing. Great, if you don't like an equal opportunity Nation where you have to take care of yourself, move somewhere else. We don't need nor want you here. Move to Cuba. Move to Venezuela. Move to a Socialist paradise where all of your policies have already destroyed their economy instead of destroying ours.

No, I don't think everything should be "free". I know you cons struggle with nuance, but no political issue is black or white.

The policies you support tell a different story.

Okay like what?

 

[francoHFW]

How many Americans could actually afford insurance on their own? A family plan is at least $1000 a month .

Health care is a necessity . Righties act like the industry is regular supply demand widgets .

Unless you'd rather us let people die in the streets ?

My family currently pays $950 per month.

Before ACA, my family paid $150... for a family of 12... you're out of your damn mind.

It's not a necessity, and if it were, competition would keep the prices significantly lower than this. That's how supply, demand, and competition work. You lefttards have turned the Healthcare industry into a government monopoly. Now Healthcare is significantly more expensive, significantly harder to get, and significantly harder to actually use.

If people die in the streets, they deserve it. There are programs that help people write resume's, and get them interviews on their behalf, as well as programs for homeless people who need food. Before Socialist policies were put in place, people could easily get a job. Of course, if you tax employers 60% of earnings, and tax them again per employee, I imagine hiring becomes a last resort.

And you get no subsidy?

What RED state sold that $150 scam policy? Now that 950 policy is what it actually costs and is GUARANTEED. Now to get competition and going after costs really going. Or maybe Trump will figure out to Nazify the system quickly with single payer lol...

It's not a scam policy if it actually works. My youngest brother was born prematurely and needed absurd amounts of expensive surgery and treatments in order to survive and live a normal life, and our insurance covered more than half of the cost, as well as our dental bills. We're lucky this happened before the ACA was implemented or he'd have likely died.

Why would he have died under the ACA?

Because the ACA is essentially Medicare. There are like three cut rate doctors and one overfilled hospital in half a State that takes it. It's shitty insurance

In red states....

 

[jc456]

Why not? Seriously, Canada, Uk, Germany, France, and on down the list have it. It is a proven system and it works. I seriously believe that our healthcare system shouldn't be about jacking up the price just because you're sick. That is wrong.

Dear Matthew you'd have to organize it where people who want it to work and sustain are paying into it. No system can ever last if people all expect to get paid out of it, and just expect other people to pay the costs. It should be set up to support the Members paying into it, and as it develops a better track record that can be demonstrated, then more people will choose to invest and participate so the outreach will grow. To keep it organized, I'd recommend forming local coops and networks where people in support can combine their resources collectively. Then expand to state and national, once the local programs work.

It seems to work everywhere else.

then why do so many people outside the US want our services?

 

[francoHFW]

Why not? Seriously, Canada, Uk, Germany, France, and on down the list have it. It is a proven system and it works. I seriously believe that our healthcare system shouldn't be about jacking up the price just because you're sick. That is wrong.

Dear Matthew you'd have to organize it where people who want it to work and sustain are paying into it. No system can ever last if people all expect to get paid out of it, and just expect other people to pay the costs. It should be set up to support the Members paying into it, and as it develops a better track record that can be demonstrated, then more people will choose to invest and participate so the outreach will grow. To keep it organized, I'd recommend forming local coops and networks where people in support can combine their resources collectively. Then expand to state and national, once the local programs work.

It seems to work everywhere else.

then why do so many people outside the US want our services?

Only the richest, and nowhere near as many as you're brainwashed to think.

 

[Timmy]

And you get no subsidy?

What RED state sold that $150 scam policy? Now that 950 policy is what it actually costs and is GUARANTEED. Now to get competition and going after costs really going. Or maybe Trump will figure out to Nazify the system quickly with single payer lol...

It's not a scam policy if it actually works. My youngest brother was born prematurely and needed absurd amounts of expensive surgery and treatments in order to survive and live a normal life, and our insurance covered more than half of the cost, as well as our dental bills. We're lucky this happened before the ACA was implemented or he'd have likely died.

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

You paid $150, but that's not the COST of the plan. The employer through in another $1000.

But you come here and blame the ACA when premiums were already too high for an average family .

 

[Rustic]

Everyone that wants Obamacare keep it to themselves, leave the rest of us out of it… We can't afford it.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It's not a scam policy if it actually works. My youngest brother was born prematurely and needed absurd amounts of expensive surgery and treatments in order to survive and live a normal life, and our insurance covered more than half of the cost, as well as our dental bills. We're lucky this happened before the ACA was implemented or he'd have likely died.

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

You paid $150, but that's not the COST of the plan. The employer through in another $1000.

But you come here and blame the ACA when premiums were already too high for an average family .

you made a spelling error, therefore, by liberal forum rules, nothing you just posted has any validity or discussion value to it.

 

[Silhouette]

Everyone that wants Obamacare keep it to themselves, leave the rest of us out of it… We can't afford it.

Which is exactly why Universal Healthcare (to replace Obamacare) would still allow those who want to gamble their aging lives with for-profit health insurance, can do so. Meanwhile the rest of us will be happy to pay % tax on sugar, alcohol & tobacco at the register to fund UHC....with public oversight and auditing to be sure a bottom line doesn't "interfere" with good health care practices; even as one ages.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

It's not a scam policy if it actually works. My youngest brother was born prematurely and needed absurd amounts of expensive surgery and treatments in order to survive and live a normal life, and our insurance covered more than half of the cost, as well as our dental bills. We're lucky this happened before the ACA was implemented or he'd have likely died.

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

The Private Sector is the key to everything except infrastructure, and possibly that, too. True Capitalism regulates itself, advances faster, generates constant jobs and constant economic growth, and higher wages. Competition causes business to have to have the best prices, work conditions, payment, and product. There's literally no way for the government to do anything better than the Private Sector, and it has failed every time it has tried.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, my family's Healthcare went from $150 to $950. Your argument is invalid.

True unregulated capitalism is a success huh? So the lack of proper regulation on Wall Street is not the reason for Great Recession? And no, your anecdotal story doesn't mean jack shit if, statistically, healthcare costs have been rising for decades. If you let corporations do whatever the fuck they want, where is the motive for them to lower their costs if they are already making a killing off necessary treatments like cancer treatment or prescriptions costs?

Yes, it is a success. The recession was a result of the government being allowed to run amok and expand its powers far beyond what they should be, much like the Great Depression.

Another competing business having lower costs and a better product stealing all of their customers? What we had before ACA was not only better, but wasn't actual capitalism due to government regulations. Competition beyond state lines would have been an unregulated capitalist healthcare system, and would have results in people getting the lowest cost and best product, because that's how capitalism works.

Even if costs were rising before ACA, ACA caused them to rise significantly faster, and has given us a far, far worse product.

Both the depressions happened after 8 years of GOP in power and deregulated insanity and greed, ignorant dupe. "a result of the government being allowed to run amok and expand its powers far beyond what they should be" ? WTH are you talking about? LOL

Actually, the Great Depression was caused by FDR, who re-implemented a lot of Woodrow Wilson's failed policies. He turned a mild recession into a Great Depression by attacking businesses with the full force unconstitutional powers the president should never have had. Including but not limited to compulsory unionism, locking prices high, minimum wage laws, and basically taking full control of private industry with the NIRA. His policies drastically increased the cost of hiring employees and the cost of goods and services, which actually promoted monopolizing businesses.

Read something- You're out of your tiny brainwashed mind. When FDR became president, it was the height of the depression, over 3 years since the crash....

No, it was a mild recession when he took office, which his regressive policies turned into a Depression.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

If a price is lowered, it's obviously more affordable to everyone. Businesses exist to make the owner money. If they don't make money, there's no reason for that business to exist. Naturally, if someone has literally no money, they can't afford anything. That's what charity is for, and programs to get them interviews. If they can't pull themselves up in a capitalist system, it's their own fault.

Again, they exist to make money, hence everything having a price. It's called making a living.

Lol none of this shallow reasoning of yours changes the fact that healthcare prices haven't been affordable for the poor for decades.

If you have no money, nothing is affordable. By your logic, everything should be 'free', which is Socialism, which was implemented by the USSR, which destroyed their Nation for 90 years and caused their economy to collapse. If you want everything affordable for those who have no money, move to Venezuela. People who can't make it on their own due to lack of motivation and laziness don't deserve to have things paid for by others for them, and therefor don't NEED to be able to afford anything. You Liberals keep complaining that we're the only Nation that doesn't do this, that, or the other thing. Great, if you don't like an equal opportunity Nation where you have to take care of yourself, move somewhere else. We don't need nor want you here. Move to Cuba. Move to Venezuela. Move to a Socialist paradise where all of your policies have already destroyed their economy instead of destroying ours.

No, I don't think everything should be "free". I know you cons struggle with nuance, but no political issue is black or white.

The policies you support tell a different story.

Okay like what?

This one, for example~

 

[Pumpkin Row]

It's not a scam policy if it actually works. My youngest brother was born prematurely and needed absurd amounts of expensive surgery and treatments in order to survive and live a normal life, and our insurance covered more than half of the cost, as well as our dental bills. We're lucky this happened before the ACA was implemented or he'd have likely died.

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

You paid $150, but that's not the COST of the plan. The employer through in another $1000.

But you come here and blame the ACA when premiums were already too high for an average family .

I still see no evidence to back up your claim... you also misspelled the word "threw".

 

[Billy000]

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

True unregulated capitalism is a success huh? So the lack of proper regulation on Wall Street is not the reason for Great Recession? And no, your anecdotal story doesn't mean jack shit if, statistically, healthcare costs have been rising for decades. If you let corporations do whatever the fuck they want, where is the motive for them to lower their costs if they are already making a killing off necessary treatments like cancer treatment or prescriptions costs?

Yes, it is a success. The recession was a result of the government being allowed to run amok and expand its powers far beyond what they should be, much like the Great Depression.

Another competing business having lower costs and a better product stealing all of their customers? What we had before ACA was not only better, but wasn't actual capitalism due to government regulations. Competition beyond state lines would have been an unregulated capitalist healthcare system, and would have results in people getting the lowest cost and best product, because that's how capitalism works.

Even if costs were rising before ACA, ACA caused them to rise significantly faster, and has given us a far, far worse product.

Both the depressions happened after 8 years of GOP in power and deregulated insanity and greed, ignorant dupe. "a result of the government being allowed to run amok and expand its powers far beyond what they should be" ? WTH are you talking about? LOL

Actually, the Great Depression was caused by FDR, who re-implemented a lot of Woodrow Wilson's failed policies. He turned a mild recession into a Great Depression by attacking businesses with the full force unconstitutional powers the president should never have had. Including but not limited to compulsory unionism, locking prices high, minimum wage laws, and basically taking full control of private industry with the NIRA. His policies drastically increased the cost of hiring employees and the cost of goods and services, which actually promoted monopolizing businesses.

Read something- You're out of your tiny brainwashed mind. When FDR became president, it was the height of the depression, over 3 years since the crash....

No, it was a mild recession when he took office, which his regressive policies turned into a Depression.

Lol that is complete bullshit. The Great Recession began 4 months before Bush left office and we were losing 500,000 jobs per month on average. After the stimulus was passed, the recession ended in June of 09. NONE of Obama'a policies made it worse. Hell there wasn't even time to make it worse. It's not like you can point to any policy of his that did.

 

[Billy000]

Lol none of this shallow reasoning of yours changes the fact that healthcare prices haven't been affordable for the poor for decades.

If you have no money, nothing is affordable. By your logic, everything should be 'free', which is Socialism, which was implemented by the USSR, which destroyed their Nation for 90 years and caused their economy to collapse. If you want everything affordable for those who have no money, move to Venezuela. People who can't make it on their own due to lack of motivation and laziness don't deserve to have things paid for by others for them, and therefor don't NEED to be able to afford anything. You Liberals keep complaining that we're the only Nation that doesn't do this, that, or the other thing. Great, if you don't like an equal opportunity Nation where you have to take care of yourself, move somewhere else. We don't need nor want you here. Move to Cuba. Move to Venezuela. Move to a Socialist paradise where all of your policies have already destroyed their economy instead of destroying ours.

No, I don't think everything should be "free". I know you cons struggle with nuance, but no political issue is black or white.

The policies you support tell a different story.

Okay like what?

This one, for example~

I support single payer.

 

[Timmy]

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

You paid $150, but that's not the COST of the plan. The employer through in another $1000.

But you come here and blame the ACA when premiums were already too high for an average family .

I still see no evidence to back up your claim... you also misspelled the word "threw".

No evidence !? I'm just quoting the shit you said !!!

 

[Rustic]

If you have no money, nothing is affordable. By your logic, everything should be 'free', which is Socialism, which was implemented by the USSR, which destroyed their Nation for 90 years and caused their economy to collapse. If you want everything affordable for those who have no money, move to Venezuela. People who can't make it on their own due to lack of motivation and laziness don't deserve to have things paid for by others for them, and therefor don't NEED to be able to afford anything. You Liberals keep complaining that we're the only Nation that doesn't do this, that, or the other thing. Great, if you don't like an equal opportunity Nation where you have to take care of yourself, move somewhere else. We don't need nor want you here. Move to Cuba. Move to Venezuela. Move to a Socialist paradise where all of your policies have already destroyed their economy instead of destroying ours.

No, I don't think everything should be "free". I know you cons struggle with nuance, but no political issue is black or white.

The policies you support tell a different story.

Okay like what?

This one, for example~

I support single payer.

Keep it to yourself then, leave the rest of us out of it…

 

[francoHFW]

Half ain't great. How long ago?

I just confirmed with my mother, they paid "Roughly 95%", the company was Aetna. The only things they didn't cover amounted to a few thousand, but they did cover surgeries amounting to millions of dollars, like open heart surgery. My youngest brothers, who are twins, were "Million dollar babies".

So your pre Obamacare plan was over $1000. Not $150.

Prove it. Post proof that you know my family's bill better than me. Do it.

My family paid $150 per month. You will either prove your statement or you'll go back to the Flame Zone where brain dead Liberals belong.

True unregulated capitalism is a success huh? So the lack of proper regulation on Wall Street is not the reason for Great Recession? And no, your anecdotal story doesn't mean jack shit if, statistically, healthcare costs have been rising for decades. If you let corporations do whatever the fuck they want, where is the motive for them to lower their costs if they are already making a killing off necessary treatments like cancer treatment or prescriptions costs?

Yes, it is a success. The recession was a result of the government being allowed to run amok and expand its powers far beyond what they should be, much like the Great Depression.

Another competing business having lower costs and a better product stealing all of their customers? What we had before ACA was not only better, but wasn't actual capitalism due to government regulations. Competition beyond state lines would have been an unregulated capitalist healthcare system, and would have results in people getting the lowest cost and best product, because that's how capitalism works.

Even if costs were rising before ACA, ACA caused them to rise significantly faster, and has given us a far, far worse product.

Both the depressions happened after 8 years of GOP in power and deregulated insanity and greed, ignorant dupe. "a result of the government being allowed to run amok and expand its powers far beyond what they should be" ? WTH are you talking about? LOL

Actually, the Great Depression was caused by FDR, who re-implemented a lot of Woodrow Wilson's failed policies. He turned a mild recession into a Great Depression by attacking businesses with the full force unconstitutional powers the president should never have had. Including but not limited to compulsory unionism, locking prices high, minimum wage laws, and basically taking full control of private industry with the NIRA. His policies drastically increased the cost of hiring employees and the cost of goods and services, which actually promoted monopolizing businesses.

Read something- You're out of your tiny brainwashed mind. When FDR became president, it was the height of the depression, over 3 years since the crash....

No, it was a mild recession when he took office, which his regressive policies turned into a Depression.

Yup, only 25% unemployment and 11,000 banks closed- no problem. Will you PLEASE read something, dupe?

What were the immediate challenges facing Franklin Roosevelt in March 1933? | eNotes

 

[Billy000]

No, I don't think everything should be "free". I know you cons struggle with nuance, but no political issue is black or white.

The policies you support tell a different story.

Okay like what?

This one, for example~

I support single payer.

Keep it to yourself then, leave the rest of us out of it…

Yeah me and the 20 million left uninsured after ObamaCare's repeal.

 

[Onyx]

Yeah me and the 20 million left uninsured after ObamaCare's repeal.

You were insured at other people's expense. That is the problem.

 

[Billy000]

Yeah me and the 20 million left uninsured after ObamaCare's repeal.

You were insured at other people's expense. That is the problem.

Uh, no actually. I am insured through my employer and I never have enrolled in ObamaCare.

Poor people can't afford health insurance.because their wages are too low. You can be poor and work 40 hours a week. That's the reality of today's America. You are too dumb/immature to admit that.