Debate Now Republican candidates discussion, Conservative/libertarian/tea party only

[Dan Daly]

Gary Johnson is the only candidate I could vote for without feeling dirty...like some kind of traitor to my country.

I know Gary personally and he was my governor. He is a really great guy, much more honest than your average politician, and has his heart in the right place. But my main concern with him is that he doesn't seem to have the instincts or skills to choose good people to do the jobs they need to do. That has been my worry about Ben Carson too, though he ranks right at the top on my respect meter.

I had the same concern with Gary...which is why I couldn't support him in the 2012 campaign. I won't get into all the issues that contributed, other than to say that I think he learned some valuable lessons...which is why I am 100% behind him this time around.

I have never met Ben Carson...at times he seems like he would be a great choice...but then he says something that makes me want to rap him up side the head and say "WUT?".

 

[Foxfyre]

Gary Johnson is the only candidate I could vote for without feeling dirty...like some kind of traitor to my country.

I know Gary personally and he was my governor. He is a really great guy, much more honest than your average politician, and has his heart in the right place. But my main concern with him is that he doesn't seem to have the instincts or skills to choose good people to do the jobs they need to do. That has been my worry about Ben Carson too, though he ranks right at the top on my respect meter.

I had the same concern with Gary...which is why I couldn't support him in the 2012 campaign. I won't get into all the issues that contributed, other than to say that I think he learned some valuable lessons...which is why I am 100% behind him this time around.

I have never met Ben Carson...at times he seems like he would be a great choice...but then he says something that makes me want to rap him up side the head and say "WUT?".

My concerns with Gary remain though I view him most favorably and with great affection. My primary concern with going third party though is that Democrats aren't going to do that and every one of the right of center folks who do are essentially giving Hillary their vote. Voting with conscience and on principle is admirable, but sometimes being practical in the interest of the greatest good is important too.

 

[Foxfyre]

Interesting results of a YouGov.com poll summarized in the Washington Examiner today:

Poll: Trump nears 50% in 3-way race, GOP likes 'strong, bold' over 'conservative'

 

[9aces]

Well after tonight's debate, despite the talking heads strident propping up of Rubio, I saw a few things.

Kasich is done, Bush is done. Neither have figured it out, and both should head to the kiddie table where they belong until they hit the door. Hopefully Iowa and NH give them sub 1% numbers so they'll figure it out.

I'm not sure if Carson needs to go there yet or not. His biggest problem is he doesn't like interrupting people, which makes him look hesitant and well...lost in the gaggle of strident people desperate to be heard. I think he'd do better with a smaller format where he gets to talk more. Regardless he should probably end up with the Surgeon General posting, I think he'd probably be more comfortable with that in the long run.

Everyone on the undercard should call it a day, despite Huckabee having the best speaking voice of any of the candidates, he's just been painted it too small a corner to get out. Fiorina is probably angling for a cabinet post, or an outside shot at VP candidate...Honestly I can't see her getting it, but that doesn't mean she can't see a way.

Santorum should have quit months ago, I have no idea why he's still there, history isn't going to repeat itself...and he still lost to Romney.

Christie just flat smashed Rubio when he got called out. HINT: Rubio stick to going after Bush, Christie's out of your league head to head.

Trump/Cruz I'd call a draw as the winners. Both got in their shots.
Christie was 3rd. He's hit his stride in these debates and he's figured out how to play it.
Rubio 4th, had a great moment early, but when you start with a TD and give up a pick 6 right after, they forget about the TD pretty fast.

Carson, Bush, Kasich....bleh. All had a few good things to say, but weren't terribly memorable.

I swear if I hear Kasich talk about that fictitious balanced budget he brags about I'll puke.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well after tonight's debate, despite the talking heads strident propping up of Rubio, I saw a few things.

Kasich is done, Bush is done. Neither have figured it out, and both should head to the kiddie table where they belong until they hit the door. Hopefully Iowa and NH give them sub 1% numbers so they'll figure it out.

I'm not sure if Carson needs to go there yet or not. His biggest problem is he doesn't like interrupting people, which makes him look hesitant and well...lost in the gaggle of strident people desperate to be heard. I think he'd do better with a smaller format where he gets to talk more. Regardless he should probably end up with the Surgeon General posting, I think he'd probably be more comfortable with that in the long run.

Everyone on the undercard should call it a day, despite Huckabee having the best speaking voice of any of the candidates, he's just been painted it too small a corner to get out. Fiorina is probably angling for a cabinet post, or an outside shot at VP candidate...Honestly I can't see her getting it, but that doesn't mean she can't see a way.

Santorum should have quit months ago, I have no idea why he's still there, history isn't going to repeat itself...and he still lost to Romney.

Christie just flat smashed Rubio when he got called out. HINT: Rubio stick to going after Bush, Christie's out of your league head to head.

Trump/Cruz I'd call a draw as the winners. Both got in their shots.
Christie was 3rd. He's hit his stride in these debates and he's figured out how to play it.
Rubio 4th, had a great moment early, but when you start with a TD and give up a pick 6 right after, they forget about the TD pretty fast.

Carson, Bush, Kasich....bleh. All had a few good things to say, but weren't terribly memorable.

I swear if I hear Kasich talk about that fictitious balanced budget he brags about I'll puke.

I think that's all in all a competent summary 9aces.

Happy to meet you by the way.

I thought Rubio had one of his best nights, but he still has a speaking style that sounds like he a school kid reciting from a script. It sounds staged and not at all spontaneous or coming from true conviction.

I agree Bush and Kasich haven't figured it out. They are both campaigning old style thinking their experience qualifies them so they both keep reciting or inferring their resumes instead of letting us know they understand that we are all angry and why we are angry. People aren't interested in their resumes. Among those who will likely vote GOP, they want tough, angry, competent, and effective and somebody who will actually make a difference to start turning things around. Trump figured that out day one, and that light bulb seems to have come on for Cruz. Christi countered the charges against him as well as anybody has ever done.

I thought the pre-debate was great though, and liked what all three candidates said and thought all three accomplished themselves. But I think you're right that most of the electorate has now dismissed them as viable candidates. Rand Paul really shot himself in the foot throwing a hissy fit and refusing to participate. I adore Huckabee except for his fair tax plan that he is so committed to. I like Cruz's flat tax much much better.

Ben Carson by himself is brilliant, compelling, persuasive, and likable. But up against the pit bulls of politics, he just looks out of their league. And Carly Fiorina is hamstrung by our American natural sexist attitudes. She hasn't quite figured out a Margaret Thatcher or Jeanne Kirkpatrick style of being female, tough, strong, and likable all at the same time. That is a burden the guys don't have.

In the end, I would not have to hold my nose to vote for any one of the candidates, but I am now leaning toward Trump, Cruz, Rubio, and Christi as the ones I most want to win the nomination and that I believe can be both viable candidates against Hillary and will do the best job as President. And I am leaning toward believing Trump and Christ will do better against Hillary than any of the others.

And Hillary, Trump, and Christi are all essentially New Yorkers for all practical purposes.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I did not see the debate because we don't get fox business on our cable package. But from the clips I would venture this. Trump has wore out the Ted Cruz citizenship thing. Enough already. Cruz is prepared and confident, maybe too confident. I don't see how you can say Marco has no conviction, he expresses more believable passion than any of them. Christie has too much New Jersey baggage. A general election will kill him on the facts about New Jersey. Clear out the rest of the underbrush and let those four go after it.

Trump hit a home run on the New York thing and finally showed he had a heart. Christies clip about Marco was slick but doesn't do anything for me. Negative attacks may be successful but they turn me off when constantly repeated. Move on. Christie seems more hypocritical all the time after going from hugging Obama to castigating him relentlessly. I don't think any of them have to worry about Hilary because I think she will be indicted soon so it may be moot.

 

[Foxfyre]

I did not see the debate because we don't get fox business on our cable package. But from the clips I would venture this. Trump has wore out the Ted Cruz citizenship thing. Enough already. Cruz is prepared and confident, maybe too confident. I don't see how you can say Marco has no conviction, he expresses more believable passion than any of them. Christie has too much New Jersey baggage. A general election will kill him on the facts about New Jersey. Clear out the rest of the underbrush and let those four go after it.

Trump hit a home run on the New York thing and finally showed he had a heart. Christies clip about Marco was slick but doesn't do anything for me. Negative attacks may be successful but they turn me off when constantly repeated. Move on. Christie seems more hypocritical all the time after going from hugging Obama to castigating him relentlessly. I don't think any of them have to worry about Hilary because I think she will be indicted soon so it may be moot.

There is no way that Hillary is going to be indicted when the only people investigating her or who are in a position to indict her are controlled by the people who ordered or condoned or overlooked her bad acts. And if the Republicans win the election, they will wisely let all that drop other than to use as illustrations, because if they go after her from a position of power it will look like bullying and government overreach.

I'm glad Rubio sounded sincere and authentic to you. Just because he doesn't come across that way to me doesn't mean he impresses others the same way. And every 'who is your candidate' test I have taken lately has been coming up with Rubio as my preferred candidate. I'm just not feeling it emotionally.

I agree Trump hit it out of the park when challenged on the "New York values" thing. And if people aren't interested in Kasich's record or Bush's record, I don't think they're going to care all that much about Christi's record either. I agree with that poll I posted earlier this week. The electorate who are most likely to vote GOP in November are looking for an angry, competent, strong, and motivated candidate. They're sick to death of slick politicians and politics as usual -- candidates who promise the sun and the moon when campaigning and then promptly ignore all those promises when they get elected. They're sick to death of being told that we have to go along to get along and have to understand how the system works. They want a new system. I'm sensing a new day in America and have just a wee glimmer of hope that we are ready to chuck the conventional and get busy doing things differently.

And Trump may be right. Cruz might be smart to go ahead and get a definitive court ruling on his eligibility to be President and put that behind him now before it becomes a major campaign slogan for the opposition, though I thought his retort to Trump on that issue was brilliant. And now that Cruz has also pointed that finger at Rubio, and the media gleefully picked it up and has run with it today, he might have to do that also.

 

[Foxfyre]

I just read that Lindsey Graham has endorsed Jeb Bush as the GOP nominee. IMO that should put a substantial nail in Jeb's political coffin. I'm really grateful that he didn't endorse one of my personal favorites though.

 

[9aces]

I just read that Lindsey Graham has endorsed Jeb Bush as the GOP nominee. IMO that should put a substantial nail in Jeb's political coffin. I'm really grateful that he didn't endorse one of my personal favorites though.

I just wonder how much longer the money guys are going to keep throwing it at Bush.

I think you're exactly correct in that the "old guard" hasn't got this figured out. I swear the Republican leadership should all just go ahead and flip to the democratic party. They're wanting to abandon the base to try and "broaden support", but without the values and the principles you're not a party.

That's my biggest dig against Rubio right now, I think he's controllable by that crew, and I think they know it. When they finally decide Jeb has to go the way of the Dinosaur, they'll flip their support to Rubio, possibly Christie. I think Christie's savvy enough to say "sure" and tell them to fribble off if he wins.

Cruz, Carson and Trump they'd go fund Hillary's campaign before they'll willingly fund any of those 3. I'm beginning to think they're trying to tank this election in the hopes of "getting their guy" at the top of the ticket.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Guys, Chris will sell his soul for the nomination. He,is mor for,sale,than Rubio. I am just not feeling the Rubio is too slippery narrative. You may be right but I'll take Rubio any day before Christie. And let's take Cruz. The Rubio clips about how he changed his votes just to appeal to Iowa voters are ruinous. Cruz is calculating down to th last follicle on his body, and the New York thing might help in the primaries, but if you want to be president you have to want to be president of all the people. I'm just not sure what you all think Rubio will or will not do that is so bad, as opposed to what trump will or will not do. I like Rubio, not to the exclusion of the,other candidates, at all, but his favorable a are significant, and poll after poll shows he is hilarys worst nightmare.

I am feeling it about, let me put this correctly, Hilary being recommended for indictment by the fbi. That will be all that is necessary for her continued demise. It is said that she is doing worse in polling than when she ran against Obama in2008. It is entirely possible republicans will sweep this election by default. I will be glad,when the real voting starts.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I still have two months to make a primary decision in Florida and I have not made my choice yet, but I'm gonna have to say that Ted is not helping himself. He repeats the same one liners just like any politician. He fudges his excuses when called on something. He is using the same playbook as establishment politicians. Talk about being too scripted. I mentioned a few weeks ago that he is trying too,hard and it shows. Ted is undoubtably one of the brightest guys up there, but as republicans are reminded every 4 years, you can win the debate and still lose the popularity contest.

Trump is going to be able to say" we never win anymore" about this Iran prisoner exchange and he will be right. He needed a heart and he got one with the New York thing. I didn't think it was possible for trump to come across as softer than Cruz, but it happened.

 

[Shrimpbox]

How damn stupid are these so called conservatives. If trump wins the nomination are they not going to support him. How much money are establishment donors giving the magazine to throw trump trump under the bus. This is getting so corrupt I can't even stomach this stuff anymore. It is time to clean house. Lay the wood to em voters.

 

[Foxfyre]

I still say any one of the folks in the GOP field will be far less dangerous to the country, the Supreme Court, and the best interests of us all than anybody the Democrats put up. And the latest polls show Trump beating Hillary in a head to head matchup.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Fox, as of today, trump looks awfully strong. If he wins Iowa and New Hampshire I believe he runs the table. Which will give a lot of the repubs time to prepare for the dems. Check out my op, it was 119 in politics an hour ago, the one with machievellian in the title. It lays out the democratic strategy for pres.

 

[Foxfyre]

Fox, as of today, trump looks awfully strong. If he wins Iowa and New Hampshire I believe he runs the table. Which will give a lot of the repubs time to prepare for the dems. Check out my op, it was 119 in politics an hour ago, the one with machievellian in the title. It lays out the democratic strategy for pres.

I'll check it out later Shrimp. Right now I have to get ready to keep an appointment. But the winners of Iowa and New Hampshire have typically not been the ones that go on to win the nomination, so while they are not insignificant, I don't know how much of a forecaster they really are. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Foxfyre]

REMINDER EVERYBODY: The last debate before the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary is Thursday night on Fox News Channel. Same moderators as they had last time, and those moderators that I normally liked really sucked in that debate. I hope they clean up their act in this one and stick to the issues instead of attacking character or going to the 'let's you and him fight' tactic.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Is it possible that the Palin endorsement put Donald over the top in Iowa. And if it did can we say the Donald is a flipping genius? So far at least he is sure showing everyone how to win.

 

[Foxfyre]

Is it possible that the Palin endorsement put Donald over the top in Iowa. And if it did can we say the Donald is a flipping genius? So far at least he is sure showing everyone how to win.

The Donald is winning because people are fed up to the gills with all the political correctness crap and making a media storm out of whatever passing comment or un-PC word or phrase they think they can make hay with. Donald Trump supporters allow him to be who he is, say whatever is on his mind or provokes him or strikes him as funny in any given circumstance, and don't judge him for every off the top of his head quip or comment. It is one of the most refreshing things I've seen happen in politics in my lifetime and I'm liking it a lot. And I'm not even a Trump supporter.

 

[Foxfyre]

Eagle@GOPUS just put out an announcement that Donald Trump may skip the debate Thursday night. As they put it in an e-mail I just got:

Republican front-runner Donald Trump has said he may skip this week's GOP presidential debate because Fox News host Megyn Kelly will return as a moderator. Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Monday: "I don't like her, she doesn't treat me fairly. I'm not a big fan of hers at all, I mean, I don't care. I might be the best thing that ever happened to her, who ever even heard of her before the last debate?"​

I am personally taking that with a grain of salt as the national GOP hates Donald Trump--he isn't anywhere close to 'establishment' enough for them and he certainly isn't one they have been grooming for great things and he has the impudence to be successful without their blessings or their help. So I don't know how accurately they are respresenting him here.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sigh. It is official. Trump is boycotting the GOP debate tomorrow night because Fox wouldn't remove Megyn Kelly as a moderator. For the first time, Trump looks seriously petulant and weak to me. If he can't handle Megyn Kelly, how in the world would he be able to handle somebody like Putin or Kim Il-Sung or Xi Jinping or Hassan Rouhani? I am really disappointed in him because it is the first time he has shown, for want of a better term, cowardly tendencies. I hope I hope I hope the other candidates and the moderators just ignore him tonight and do their thing, otherwise they will affirm the Donald's choice to his advantage. I don't think he should be rewarded for this.