Republicans - Rich vs. Rubes

[SFC Ollie]

To bad the fix for it turned into a power grab...........

 

[Wyatt earp]

Bullshit, I happen to have 2 sons living in Europe, over half their pay goes out in taxes, over 50%......And they damned sure aren't rich.........Now who do you think spends less? What do you think all those taxes are for? And no that does not include sales taxes and fuel taxes and property taxes.....

You want their system, go for it...They might let you in.......

Or we can just fix this one to make it more like theirs.

Point is, on per capital medical spending- which is what I was talking about in this context - we spend more than any other country in the world. And what do we get for it.

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Why do you keep spreading that 48 million unisured lie? people are unisured because they want to be. They want that money to buy, I dont know, like FOOD or vacations. they dont want to be taxed to death like Canada is.

 

[AmazonTania]

Bullshit, I happen to have 2 sons living in Europe, over half their pay goes out in taxes, over 50%......And they damned sure aren't rich.........Now who do you think spends less? What do you think all those taxes are for? And no that does not include sales taxes and fuel taxes and property taxes.....

You want their system, go for it...They might let you in.......

Or we can just fix this one to make it more like theirs.

Point is, on per capital medical spending- which is what I was talking about in this context - we spend more than any other country in the world. And what do we get for it.

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Aside from the fact that what you have said in bold is false, spending per capita is a meaningless statistic when it comes to health care. Life expectancy is based on a mathematical formula. Infant mortality deals with infant death 1 year and younger, which generally happens very often as their immune systems are weaker. These are not outcomes of health care quality.

Health care outcomes deals with overall health care performance and health care innovations by country.

 

[JoeB131]

To bad the fix for it turned into a power grab...........

meh, not really.

Frankly, what it turned into was a bandage on sucking chest wound.

Eventually, we are going to have single payer because the current system is unsustainable. Even the insurance companies realize the status quo is untenable, which is why you didn't see the kind of Harry and Louise Bullshit you saw in 1993 when Hillary proposed some sensible reforms.

 

[JoeB131]

[

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Aside from the fact that what you have said in bold is false, spending per capita is a meaningless statistic when it comes to health care. Life expectancy is based on a mathematical formula. Infant mortality deals with infant death 1 year and younger, which generally happens very often as their immune systems are weaker. These are not outcomes of health care quality.

Health care outcomes deals with overall health care performance and health care innovations by country.

Oh, bullshit.

We have the highest infant mortality rate because a lot of people just don't have access to the prenatal and neonatal care they should have. Period.

Seriously, CUBA does better on this stat than we do, and that's a fucking shame.

We have a bad system. Because when the rest of the world concluded that health care is a public service, we decided it was a consumer item.

 

[Wyatt earp]

[

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Aside from the fact that what you have said in bold is false, spending per capita is a meaningless statistic when it comes to health care. Life expectancy is based on a mathematical formula. Infant mortality deals with infant death 1 year and younger, which generally happens very often as their immune systems are weaker. These are not outcomes of health care quality.

Health care outcomes deals with overall health care performance and health care innovations by country.

Oh, bullshit.

We have the highest infant mortality rate because a lot of people just don't have access to the prenatal and neonatal care they should have. Period.

Seriously, CUBA does better on this stat than we do, and that's a fucking shame.

We have a bad system. Because when the rest of the world concluded that health care is a public service, we decided it was a consumer item.

Yea right...guess teenage mothers dont have anything to do with this.
REPORT: The U.S Has The Highest First-Day Infant Death Rate In The Industrialized World | ThinkProgress

Save the Children isn’t sure exactly why the United States has such a high rate of first-day infant mortality. But the group suspects it’s partly related to the country’s high rates of unintended pregnancies and teen births, as well as persistent issues of economic and racial inequality:

 

[AmazonTania]

Oh, bullshit.

We have the highest infant mortality rate because a lot of people just don't have access to the prenatal and neonatal care they should have. Period.

Serious individuals who study health care system across the world do not even consider infant mortality when it comes to health care quality. Infant mortality tells you nothing.

When doing Cross country comparisons, you look at at wide range of outcomes. Cancer care, survival rates, waiting times, drug innovations, doctor quality, etc.

The only people are only looking at life expectancy or infant mortality are the ones who don't understand the issue, and should really stop.

Seriously, CUBA does better on this stat than we do, and that's a fucking shame.

Name the last life saving drug that has ever be developed from Cuba in the last 10 years.

I'll wait.

We have a bad system. Because when the rest of the world concluded that health care is a public service, we decided it was a consumer item.

While you are at it, you can name the last life saving drug which has ever been developed from Canada, Great Britain and Australia within the last 10 years as well. The rest of the world decided that it was a public service, and yet the rest of the world doesn't even develop drugs.

 

[AmazonTania]

Yea right...guess teenage mothers dont have anything to do with this.
REPORT: The U.S Has The Highest First-Day Infant Death Rate In The Industrialized World | ThinkProgress

Save the Children isn’t sure exactly why the United States has such a high rate of first-day infant mortality. But the group suspects it’s partly related to the country’s high rates of unintended pregnancies and teen births, as well as persistent issues of economic and racial inequality:

As I've said already, infant mortality tells you nothing. But good to know that we have a nation of deadbeats contributing to a meaningless statistic.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, just because Big Pharma comes up with some drug that cures an obscure disease doesn't take away from the fact we have too many people dying from shit we already know how to fix...

because they just had the bad luck of being poor.

Fact is, the Europeans spend less, and get better results.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Bullshit, I happen to have 2 sons living in Europe, over half their pay goes out in taxes, over 50%......And they damned sure aren't rich.........Now who do you think spends less? What do you think all those taxes are for? And no that does not include sales taxes and fuel taxes and property taxes.....

You want their system, go for it...They might let you in.......

Or we can just fix this one to make it more like theirs.

Point is, on per capital medical spending- which is what I was talking about in this context - we spend more than any other country in the world. And what do we get for it.

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Why do you keep spreading that 48 million unisured lie? people are unisured because they want to be. They want that money to buy, I dont know, like FOOD or vacations. they dont want to be taxed to death like Canada is.

That's true, a lot of 20 and 30 year olds figure they don't need to waste money on health insurance. they are supermen and never get sick.

 

[Friends]

The thing I've noticed in my 12 step recovery from being a Republican is that the GOP, since 1980 at least, has divided itself into Rich Issues vs. Rube Issues.

And it's really easy to tell them apart.

A Rich Issue is one where only the 1% really benefits, the rest of us are left holding the bag, but the GOP will act on these things like they are top priorities and their mouthpieces on Hate Radio and Faux News will spend a lot of time convincing you that you have a stake at the table.

Examples- Tax Cuts for Rich People. Free Trade. Right to Work. At Will Employment.


A Rube issue is one that people get emotionally invested in, but the GOP isn't really the least bit interested in changing things on them. Instead, these are issues that are meant to keep you truly upset about something and voting against your own economic issues, and they are never mentioned again until the next election-

Examples - Abortion. Gay Marriage. Creationism. Prayer in Schools. The needle hasn't moved one inch on most of these issues, or if it has moved (as in the case of gay marriage) its been in the opposite of the desired direction.

There are some cavaets, of course. Guns might seem on the surface to be a "Rube" issue, but it's really a "rich" issue. It's about the gun companies being able to sell to someone like Nancy Lanza, and screw the consequences. There wouldn't be as big a market for the rich to make money off the guns if the rubes weren't kept really scared all the time, so you have to make it easy for crooks to get guns.

Immigration is another one. ON the surface, you keep the rubes angry about "those people" wanting to take their jobs, but the Rich are the ones offering the jobs to "those people". Not just the 20 or so illegals who are already here, but the 1.25 million "legal" immigrants who get entry visas from employers because they claim up and down they can't find a qualified American. No, really.

When I stopped being a Republican is when I realized I had nothing in common with the "rich" and refused to be a "Rube".

The GOP base is now the yahoo hayseeds, bible thumpers backward southern slow witted slackjawed uneducated yokels who support and defend the few rich at the top who are pulling their strings

Is it true that poor Southern whites have a high incest rate?

 

[SFC Ollie]

ALL CANCERS DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY


Seems like we do better than most of Europe on Cancer survival rates.....




BTW my Son in Law died from cancer about 4 hours ago...........

 

[AmazonTania]

Guy, just because Big Pharma comes up with some drug that cures an obscure disease doesn't take away from the fact we have too many people dying from shit we already know how to fix...

because they just had the bad luck of being poor.

If you have a problem with Big Pham charging outrageous prices for their drugs, get rid of the FDA or at least privatise it.. Otherwise, you are not really saying anything that hasn't been said before.

Fact is, the Europeans spend less, and get better results.

If this is true, why is 60% of all medical research conducted in the United States? Wouldn't make sense to learn from a system that is inherently inferior.

The fact this, the only better results is that the public is insured. Sure, there is no innovation or medical breakthroughs happening there, and no one actually gets care, but at least they are insured...

 

[Wyatt earp]

ALL CANCERS DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY


Seems like we do better than most of Europe on Cancer survival rates.....




BTW my Son in Law died from cancer about 4 hours ago...........

my condolences......

 

[Wyatt earp]

Or we can just fix this one to make it more like theirs.

Point is, on per capital medical spending- which is what I was talking about in this context - we spend more than any other country in the world. And what do we get for it.

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Why do you keep spreading that 48 million unisured lie? people are unisured because they want to be. They want that money to buy, I dont know, like FOOD or vacations. they dont want to be taxed to death like Canada is.

That's true, a lot of 20 and 30 year olds figure they don't need to waste money on health insurance. they are supermen and never get sick.

hell I am a single 48 year old, I only wanted insurance when I was married. I dont want it or need it now, I would rather die as it was ment to be.. On my terms rather then to prolong the Inevitable death not interested in quacks and Btw I believe in GOD and Jesus soooooooo.... I have no worrys for death. The universe dont waste nothing it recycles everything even your soul...

 

[JoeB131]

Or we can just fix this one to make it more like theirs.

Point is, on per capital medical spending- which is what I was talking about in this context - we spend more than any other country in the world. And what do we get for it.

46 million Americans uninsured.
25 million Americans under-insured.
62% of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis.
Lowest life expectency in the INdustrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.

Why do you keep spreading that 48 million unisured lie? people are unisured because they want to be. They want that money to buy, I dont know, like FOOD or vacations. they dont want to be taxed to death like Canada is.

That's true, a lot of 20 and 30 year olds figure they don't need to waste money on health insurance. they are supermen and never get sick.

and when they get sick, they go to emergency rooms, get treated at six times the cost of what it should be, and the rest of us end up paying for it.

But most of the uninsured are uninsured because they can't afford it.

 

[Friends]

In What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America Thomas Frank argued that Republicans love to lose on social issues. The rich people who control the Republican Party, and who alone benefit from Republican economic policies do not really care about abortion, gay marriage, prayer in the school, and so on. Nevertheless, these are the issues that cause low income, poorly educated whites to vote Republican.

Every time Republicans lose on something like this they can say to the Plain People, "We tried. You guys just need to vote for more Republicans."

 

[JoeNormal]

Guy, just because Big Pharma comes up with some drug that cures an obscure disease doesn't take away from the fact we have too many people dying from shit we already know how to fix...

because they just had the bad luck of being poor.

If you have a problem with Big Pham charging outrageous prices for their drugs, get rid of the FDA or at least privatise it.. Otherwise, you are not really saying anything that hasn't been said before.

Fact is, the Europeans spend less, and get better results.

If this is true, why is 60% of all medical research conducted in the United States? Wouldn't make sense to learn from a system that is inherently inferior.

The fact this, the only better results is that the public is insured. Sure, there is no innovation or medical breakthroughs happening there, and no one actually gets care, but at least they are insured...

As an innovator in a different field, I can guarantee you that the innovators are not the ones pushing the rates into the stratosphere. It's the goddamned greedy executives and administrators.

 

[AmazonTania]

Guy, just because Big Pharma comes up with some drug that cures an obscure disease doesn't take away from the fact we have too many people dying from shit we already know how to fix...

because they just had the bad luck of being poor.

If you have a problem with Big Pham charging outrageous prices for their drugs, get rid of the FDA or at least privatise it.. Otherwise, you are not really saying anything that hasn't been said before.

Fact is, the Europeans spend less, and get better results.

If this is true, why is 60% of all medical research conducted in the United States? Wouldn't make sense to learn from a system that is inherently inferior.

The fact this, the only better results is that the public is insured. Sure, there is no innovation or medical breakthroughs happening there, and no one actually gets care, but at least they are insured...

As an innovator in a different field, I can guarantee you that the innovators are not the ones pushing the rates into the stratosphere. It's the goddamned greedy executives and administrators.

Maybe you should re-read what you responded to.

 

[JoeNormal]

If you have a problem with Big Pham charging outrageous prices for their drugs, get rid of the FDA or at least privatise it.. Otherwise, you are not really saying anything that hasn't been said before.



If this is true, why is 60% of all medical research conducted in the United States? Wouldn't make sense to learn from a system that is inherently inferior.

The fact this, the only better results is that the public is insured. Sure, there is no innovation or medical breakthroughs happening there, and no one actually gets care, but at least they are insured...

As an innovator in a different field, I can guarantee you that the innovators are not the ones pushing the rates into the stratosphere. It's the goddamned greedy executives and administrators.

Maybe you should re-read what you responded to.

Well granted, I was trying to read between the lines but I thought your message was that the reason that US medical care is more expensive than anywhere else is because we do all the innovation here. No?