Rick Santorum: Rape Victims Should 'Make The Best Out Of A Bad Situation'

[koshergrl]

What a shame you can't abort us.

 

[Vast LWC]

But can you see that, if Santorum really believes the fetus is a person who deserves all the rights of an infant, that allowing abortion, even in the case of rape, would be allowing murder? That, whether it might be a bad situation or not, it cannot excuse murder?

Ok, Santorum might not be adopting these children, but that doesn't make it ok by his beliefs. His adoption or lack thereof doesn't change whether he considers abortion murder.

If you cannot accept that to some people, even in cases of rape, abortion is murder and cannot be condoned; if people who are opposed to abortion cannot accept that some people do not consider a newly fertilized egg a person and so do not consider abortion murder; then not only will one side not sway the other, but it's unlikely there can be anything like civil discourse on the matter.

The key phrase in your statement is "he believes".

He believes that life exists from conception, not because of any scientific evidence that shows self-awareness, but because he has religious beliefs that tell him that every human has a "soul".

Therefore, his argument is based entirely upon religion, not fact.

The Muslims "believe" that if a woman is raped, she should be put to death. Shall we hold their belief to be true, simply because their religion dictates it?

However, let's put that aside for now.

The flipside to your point is that: If I don't believe that life begins at conception, than the evil being perpetrated, to me, is the evil of bringing a child into the world that at some level will be hated by it's own mother. That is evil.

Now, that being said, since we can probably safely assume the mothers in question do not believe that life beings at conception, they are not committing an evil act, and, since there is no scientific proof to support an argument to the contrary, Rick Santorum needs to stay the fuck out of it.

Until Rick Santorum can prove, scientifically, that a Zygote is self-aware, he needs to stop his religious blathering, and concentrate on issues that are his business.

 

[Vast LWC]

That's what liberals are all about: trying to use human laws to create cosmic justice.

You of course have that backwards.

In this situation it was the Liberal decrying the use of legal "force". Not the other way around.

You also apparently don't know the difference between a "liberal" and a "totalitarian".

 

[Vast LWC]

What a shame you can't abort us.

We can't abort you, but we can most certainly stop you from enforcing your Sharia law.

 

[koshergrl]

Sharia law is the law which allows rapists and babykillers to rape, kill, and abuse at will.

In other words, your kind of law.

 

[Vast LWC]

Sharia law is the law which allows rapists and babykillers to rape, kill, and abuse at will.

In other words, your kind of law.

Sharia law is a whole giant variety of various Muslim religious laws.

And there's a whole bunch of laws in Exodus and Deuteronomy that do the same thing as what you describe.

So, really, it's YOUR kind of law, thank you very much.

Not being religious myself, (though not an Atheist) that is definitely not something I'd be down with.

 

[koshergrl]

Sure you are. When you promote the butchery of women and the murder of babies to protect rapists and hide the crime, you're all about it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, this is a non issue now, because Santorum is going home.

 

[Ravi]

Well, this is a non issue now, because Santorum is going home.

Is he taking his dead baby and going home?

 

[Vast LWC]

Sure you are. When you promote the butchery of women and the murder of babies to protect rapists and hide the crime, you're all about it.

Whatever you say. You keep on trying to destroy the lives of the victims of rape, while trying to claim it's all in the name of protecting self-aware zygotes.

You're a sick, sick individual.

Good work.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Only victimizers force victims of rape and or incest to have babies.

 

[Montrovant]

But can you see that, if Santorum really believes the fetus is a person who deserves all the rights of an infant, that allowing abortion, even in the case of rape, would be allowing murder? That, whether it might be a bad situation or not, it cannot excuse murder?

Ok, Santorum might not be adopting these children, but that doesn't make it ok by his beliefs. His adoption or lack thereof doesn't change whether he considers abortion murder.

If you cannot accept that to some people, even in cases of rape, abortion is murder and cannot be condoned; if people who are opposed to abortion cannot accept that some people do not consider a newly fertilized egg a person and so do not consider abortion murder; then not only will one side not sway the other, but it's unlikely there can be anything like civil discourse on the matter.

The key phrase in your statement is "he believes".

He believes that life exists from conception, not because of any scientific evidence that shows self-awareness, but because he has religious beliefs that tell him that every human has a "soul".

Therefore, his argument is based entirely upon religion, not fact.

The Muslims "believe" that if a woman is raped, she should be put to death. Shall we hold their belief to be true, simply because their religion dictates it?

However, let's put that aside for now.

The flipside to your point is that: If I don't believe that life begins at conception, than the evil being perpetrated, to me, is the evil of bringing a child into the world that at some level will be hated by it's own mother. That is evil.

Now, that being said, since we can probably safely assume the mothers in question do not believe that life beings at conception, they are not committing an evil act, and, since there is no scientific proof to support an argument to the contrary, Rick Santorum needs to stay the fuck out of it.

Until Rick Santorum can prove, scientifically, that a Zygote is self-aware, he needs to stop his religious blathering, and concentrate on issues that are his business.

Of course it's about his belief. But you seem to be missing my point. If Santorum believes it is MURDER, how can you expect him to 'stay the fuck out of it'? You are saying he should ignore the MURDER of babies, the MURDER of Americans, because you (or the mothers in question) have different beliefs than he does.

I'm not saying Santorum is right. I'm just saying that if he truly believes as he claims, to expect him to just leave it be is ridiculous.

As far as his need to scientifically prove self awareness, that too is ridiculous. Perhaps that is what it necessary to actually change the law (was the Roe v Wade decision based on scientific knowledge of the time? Has it been reassessed based on further discovery since?), but again, whether he can prove anything or not is irrelevant. If Santorum believes that abortion constitutes MURDER, asking him to just let it be or expecting him to do it because others disagree with him is foolish.

Oh, and when you say that the child will be hated to some extent by the mother, that is pure speculation on your part. It also does not take putting the child up for adoption into account.

My views on abortion, in most ways, probably agree with yours. I don't consider the zygote/fetus a person until at least the brain has formed. In my mind, it is our minds that make us people. And there are plenty of people who oppose abortion who seem unwilling or unable to accept that I and others truly hold such belief. The same is true from the pro-choice side, too, however; the strident calls to 'stay out of what isn't your business' seems to me to ignore what many who are anti-abortion believe.

Abortion is just one of those issues that people seem unable to discuss with much civility or empathy.

 

[koshergrl]

Sure you are. When you promote the butchery of women and the murder of babies to protect rapists and hide the crime, you're all about it.

Whatever you say. You keep on trying to destroy the lives of the victims of rape, while trying to claim it's all in the name of protecting self-aware zygotes.

You're a sick, sick individual.

Good work.

Please find evidence of women whose claim they were "destroyed" because they bore a child of rape.

I'll wait.

Are you familiar with the Nazi creed? Sell abortion to a population to elminate it. Pretend you're doing them a "favor" by killing their babies.

 

[koshergrl]

Only victimizers force victims of rape and or incest to have babies.

Only rapos and Nazis think it's a good idea to hide the product of rape via butchering the victim.

 

[Eriksgarden]

Rick Santourum is not only out of his mind, but out of the race. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Rick.

 

[Vast LWC]

Of course it's about his belief. But you seem to be missing my point. If Santorum believes it is MURDER, how can you expect him to 'stay the fuck out of it'? You are saying he should ignore the MURDER of babies, the MURDER of Americans, because you (or the mothers in question) have different beliefs than he does.

I'm not saying Santorum is right. I'm just saying that if he truly believes as he claims, to expect him to just leave it be is ridiculous.

As far as his need to scientifically prove self awareness, that too is ridiculous. Perhaps that is what it necessary to actually change the law (was the Roe v Wade decision based on scientific knowledge of the time? Has it been reassessed based on further discovery since?), but again, whether he can prove anything or not is irrelevant. If Santorum believes that abortion constitutes MURDER, asking him to just let it be or expecting him to do it because others disagree with him is foolish.

Oh, and when you say that the child will be hated to some extent by the mother, that is pure speculation on your part. It also does not take putting the child up for adoption into account.

My views on abortion, in most ways, probably agree with yours. I don't consider the zygote/fetus a person until at least the brain has formed. In my mind, it is our minds that make us people. And there are plenty of people who oppose abortion who seem unwilling or unable to accept that I and others truly hold such belief. The same is true from the pro-choice side, too, however; the strident calls to 'stay out of what isn't your business' seems to me to ignore what many who are anti-abortion believe.

Abortion is just one of those issues that people seem unable to discuss with much civility or empathy.

While you are technically correct.

If we allow people like Santorum to use their religious belief system to affect the law, then we pave the way for Sharia law.

The bible has a hell of a lot of crazy stuff in it concerning law. The Old Testament is chock full of stuff that makes my skin crawl as far as that is concerned.

How far should we let Christianity affect our legal system?

Should we start systematically murdering Homosexuals? In the Bible, they have committed an "abomination" and "must be put to death".

Should we have people publicly stoned for adultery? That's what it says in the bible.

 

[Vast LWC]

Please find evidence of women whose claim they were "destroyed" because they bore a child of rape.

I'll wait.

Are you familiar with the Nazi creed? Sell abortion to a population to elminate it. Pretend you're doing them a "favor" by killing their babies.

Please find evidence of the self-awareness of a Zygote.

It's not "killing babies" if there's no baby there to kill.

Meanwhile there's this:

Rape victims

or this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...q8jbCA&usg=AFQjCNGuoRK4nEwNSWO6wzSn1c6GLux8sw

Which detail long-term psychological effects of rape.

How do you think the fact that a woman is then forced to bear a child, that bears the rapist's likeness, is going to affect her?

 

[koshergrl]

I don't care if a zygote has self awareness. That's not the definition of humanity. Paralyzed stroke victims have no self awareness. Alzheimer victims have no self awareness. Should they be slaughtered as well?

Never mind, I know the answer.

 

[koshergrl]

Please find evidence of women whose claim they were "destroyed" because they bore a child of rape.

I'll wait.

Are you familiar with the Nazi creed? Sell abortion to a population to elminate it. Pretend you're doing them a "favor" by killing their babies.

Please find evidence of the self-awareness of a Zygote.

It's not "killing babies" if there's no baby there to kill.

Meanwhile there's this:

Rape victims

or this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...q8jbCA&usg=AFQjCNGuoRK4nEwNSWO6wzSn1c6GLux8sw

Which detail long-term psychological effects of rape.

How do you think the fact that a woman is then forced to bear a child, that bears the rapist's likeness, is going to affect her?

I know what the long term psychological effects of rape are. And abortion does nothing to eradicate them.

 

[koshergrl]

Again, please provide testimony from rape victims who state they wish they had gotten abortions when they didn't.

Please provide evidence that abortion lessens trauma from rape. I have certainly proven my point that it is used extensively to protect the rapists. If you think women benefit from abortion in the case of rape based on the allegation that women who bear the fruits of rape against their will are MORE traumatized by bearing a child than they are by abortion, trot those stats out and cite those women.

I won't hold my breath.