Rick Santorum: Rape Victims Should 'Make The Best Out Of A Bad Situation'

[Montrovant]

Of course it's about his belief. But you seem to be missing my point. If Santorum believes it is MURDER, how can you expect him to 'stay the fuck out of it'? You are saying he should ignore the MURDER of babies, the MURDER of Americans, because you (or the mothers in question) have different beliefs than he does.

I'm not saying Santorum is right. I'm just saying that if he truly believes as he claims, to expect him to just leave it be is ridiculous.

As far as his need to scientifically prove self awareness, that too is ridiculous. Perhaps that is what it necessary to actually change the law (was the Roe v Wade decision based on scientific knowledge of the time? Has it been reassessed based on further discovery since?), but again, whether he can prove anything or not is irrelevant. If Santorum believes that abortion constitutes MURDER, asking him to just let it be or expecting him to do it because others disagree with him is foolish.

Oh, and when you say that the child will be hated to some extent by the mother, that is pure speculation on your part. It also does not take putting the child up for adoption into account.

My views on abortion, in most ways, probably agree with yours. I don't consider the zygote/fetus a person until at least the brain has formed. In my mind, it is our minds that make us people. And there are plenty of people who oppose abortion who seem unwilling or unable to accept that I and others truly hold such belief. The same is true from the pro-choice side, too, however; the strident calls to 'stay out of what isn't your business' seems to me to ignore what many who are anti-abortion believe.

Abortion is just one of those issues that people seem unable to discuss with much civility or empathy.

While you are technically correct.

If we allow people like Santorum to use their religious belief system to affect the law, then we pave the way for Sharia law.

The bible has a hell of a lot of crazy stuff in it concerning law. The Old Testament is chock full of stuff that makes my skin crawl as far as that is concerned.

How far should we let Christianity affect our legal system?

Should we start systematically murdering Homosexuals? In the Bible, they have committed an "abomination" and "must be put to death".

Should we have people publicly stoned for adultery? That's what it says in the bible.

Again, I'm not saying Santorum is right or advocating we codify his beliefs into law. I'm just trying to point out how some of the arguments being used (he should mind his own business) don't make any sense based on his stated beliefs.

Also, while a majority of anti-abortion advocates may be Christian, not all of them are. And considering a majority of Americans identify themselves as Christian, that's to be expected. I'm pretty sure I've seen people on this site that claim no Christian belief, no religious belief at all, yet are very much opposed to abortion.

I understand your points, I don't want Santorum's views to become the law, I don't want Christianity to become the law. I'd just like to see this argument held in as civil a manner as possible.

 

[Montrovant]

Hey, I'm not trading away anyone's rights.

I'm just saying that my opinion would be swayed on the matter, if scientific evidence was presented proving the fetus in question is a thinking, self-aware being.

That's my opinion, and I'm allowed to have it.

I'm not the one making pro- or anti-abortion legislation here.

of course you are entitled to your opinion. But last I checked, constitutional rights weren't subject to change based on"compromise". I'm not saying you were intentionally trading away my rights, but that's the end results.[/QUOTE]

I don't want to speak for Vast LWC, but I think the point would be that he's willing to listen to scientific evidence that the developing fetus deserves constitutional protections of its own at an earlier point.

 

[Lakhota]

North Carolina GOP Lawmaker Calls For Bringing Back Public Hangings, Starting With Abortion Providers | ThinkProgress

 

[koshergrl]

Thanks for that completely irrelevant yet hysterical interlude, Lakhota.

 

[jillian]

of course you are entitled to your opinion. But last I checked, constitutional rights weren't subject to change based on"compromise". I'm not saying you were intentionally trading away my rights, but that's the end results.

I don't want to speak for Vast LWC, but I think the point would be that he's willing to listen to scientific evidence that the developing fetus deserves constitutional protections of its own at an earlier point.[/QUOTE]

in re-reading, i think i probably missed the "*if* it were a thinking sentient being", which is sort of what you're saying.

but it's not so it's a nonissue.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPKt3c8S-w&feature=player_embedded]The Partisans - Rick Santorum - Gifts From God - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[jdpowell95]

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

 

[rdean]

This guy is out of his mind.

Rick Santorum On Opposition To Abortion In Cases Of Rape: 'Make The Best Out Of A Bad Situation'

GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum explained his opposition to abortion even in cases of rape during an interview Friday, saying that women who face such circumstances should "make the best out of a bad situation."

Asked by CNN's Piers Morgan what he would do if his own daughter approached him, begging for an abortion after having been raped, Santorum explained that he would counsel her to "accept this horribly created" baby, because it was still a gift from God, even if given in a "broken" way.

"Well, you can make the argument that if she doesn't have this baby, if she kills her child, that that, too, could ruin her life. And this is not an easy choice, I understand that. As horrible as the way that that son or daughter and son was created, it still is her child. And whether she has that child or she doesn't, it will always be her child, and she will always know that," Santorum said.

I wonder what his wife would say in that situation.

Obviously she would welcome her precious little bundle of joy. A reminder every day of what the man gave her. I'm sure she checked right away to make sure she wasn't given "LemonAIDs".

The only question I have is, "If a woman who is raped has an abortion, who goes to jail? Her or her rapist? Or both?" Since, clearly, they were "in it" together.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You judge for you, jdpowell95, but you are not judge of God's righteousness, are you?

Forgive others who offend you in the same way you wish God would forgive you.

Murder is a legal term, not a moral one.

 

[Noomi]

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

You bumped a six month old thread just to say that? Guess what? I was raped as well, and if I became pregnant I wouldn't want anyone telling me not to murder my baby, because it isn't a baby, its a fetus, and abortion isn't murder.

 

[Clementine]

This guy is out of his mind.

Rick Santorum On Opposition To Abortion In Cases Of Rape: 'Make The Best Out Of A Bad Situation'

GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum explained his opposition to abortion even in cases of rape during an interview Friday, saying that women who face such circumstances should "make the best out of a bad situation."

Asked by CNN's Piers Morgan what he would do if his own daughter approached him, begging for an abortion after having been raped, Santorum explained that he would counsel her to "accept this horribly created" baby, because it was still a gift from God, even if given in a "broken" way.

"Well, you can make the argument that if she doesn't have this baby, if she kills her child, that that, too, could ruin her life. And this is not an easy choice, I understand that. As horrible as the way that that son or daughter and son was created, it still is her child. And whether she has that child or she doesn't, it will always be her child, and she will always know that," Santorum said.

I have a feeling if Santorum had his way, he would also forbid women to drive and stone them to death for adultery.

Are you saying Santorum joined the Muslim Brotherhood?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

So...............which choice is it if you're raped and don't have the means to take care of the child?

Do you go for adoption?

Foster care?

Or...............do you just take it out on the child the fact you were raped every day the child is alive?

You know what you'd do for yourself, and that's your choice. However...............don't think that every other person is going to think as you do.

And...................for the record? If it doesn't have a working nervous system, a brain and a beating heart, it's not a "human".

 

[ABikerSailor]

By the way....................my personal opinion on why this thread is getting bumped?

Probably because the GOP needs to turn out the voter base, and getting people riled up on the messageboards is one way for them to do that.

 

[Avatar4321]

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

You bumped a six month old thread just to say that? Guess what? I was raped as well, and if I became pregnant I wouldn't want anyone telling me not to murder my baby, because it isn't a baby, its a fetus, and abortion isn't murder.

No one who has heard their baby's heart beat can honestly deny that it's a baby's heart beat.

And abortion is infanticide. Telling yourself it isn't doesnt make it any less so.

But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Avatar4321]

By the way....................my personal opinion on why this thread is getting bumped?

Probably because the GOP needs to turn out the voter base, and getting people riled up on the messageboards is one way for them to do that.

So you think that the GOP is trying to rile up people on message boards to get them out to vote for Romney? And they are doing it by promoting threads about Santorum's statements on abortion?

My opinion is that your personal opinion is absolutely absurd.

 

[Noomi]

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

You bumped a six month old thread just to say that? Guess what? I was raped as well, and if I became pregnant I wouldn't want anyone telling me not to murder my baby, because it isn't a baby, its a fetus, and abortion isn't murder.

No one who has heard their baby's heart beat can honestly deny that it's a baby's heart beat.

And abortion is infanticide. Telling yourself it isn't doesnt make it any less so.

But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Its a fetal heartbeat, and for as long as it resides in the woman, it is her property, and not a person.
If abortion was infanticide, it would be illegal, and is isn't because a fetus is not a person until it has taken a breath.

That is not just my opinion, it is also a legal fact. And there is no need to bring up fetal homicide laws to refute my post. They cannot be compared to the issue of abortion.

 

[ABikerSailor]

By the way....................my personal opinion on why this thread is getting bumped?

Probably because the GOP needs to turn out the voter base, and getting people riled up on the messageboards is one way for them to do that.

So you think that the GOP is trying to rile up people on message boards to get them out to vote for Romney? And they are doing it by promoting threads about Santorum's statements on abortion?

My opinion is that your personal opinion is absolutely absurd.

No..............I'm saying that the principle subject is abortion, which tends to get out the base to vote.

Wanna talk about the re-re-re-re-re-RE-RE-RE-illegalize abortion bills this current congress has passed?

What about the 33 votes to get rid of Obamacare (even though the vote is purely symbolic)?

 

[Intense]

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

You bumped a six month old thread just to say that? Guess what? I was raped as well, and if I became pregnant I wouldn't want anyone telling me not to murder my baby, because it isn't a baby, its a fetus, and abortion isn't murder.

I would expect more understanding from a Rape Victim. Pregnancy is what you make it, either way. You should know better.

 

[Dot Com]

Does this mean mittens is choosing Saintorum for VP?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avatar is in error by LDS standards.

According to the principle of eternal spirits and progression, every pre-mortal existence must be born as part of the LDS plan of salvation.

Thus any fetus that is aborted is merely the removal of flesh not spirit.

The spirit will be given as many chances as necessary to achieve successful birth.

Even if the women was raped that doesn't mean she has the right to murder her baby. I was raped and no matter how badly I feel I would never murder my own child out of selfishness.

You bumped a six month old thread just to say that? Guess what? I was raped as well, and if I became pregnant I wouldn't want anyone telling me not to murder my baby, because it isn't a baby, its a fetus, and abortion isn't murder.

No one who has heard their baby's heart beat can honestly deny that it's a baby's heart beat.

And abortion is infanticide. Telling yourself it isn't doesnt make it any less so.

But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.