Right wingers...regarding Orlando tragedy....you have a tough choice to make

[Dr Grump]

We're not bitching that we have no freedoms - we're bitching that we keep losing them because of ignorant liberals. You're not a U.S. citizen - so why are you listening to all of the "bitching, moaning, whining, and general malaise on this site"? Find an Australian site to spread your stupidity on. Or has your government outlawed websites and freedom of speech?

What freedoms are you missing? You think this site only debates the US? I originally joined this site over Iraq and Afghanistan - places where there are Australian and NZ troops. I have every right to be here. As does any body. Outside of that I've visited threads that have nothing to do with US politics.

 

[Dr Grump]

So first I was a neocon, now I'm a liberal. LOL. When I keep telling you to buy a dictionary, you don't know what a dictionary is, do you?

Yeah, my bad. Believe it or not, the conservative party in Australia is called The Liberals.

 

[Dr Grump]

You can't even own a firearm junior. That's a basic fucking freedom. It's like telling someone they can't own a fork or a knife. It's like telling someone they can't own a drill or a hammer.

Of course I can own a firearm. There are just rules and regulations about how I get one (all of which I meet), and there are certain types I can't buy (as it should be). And only neocon whacko conservative Americans would compare owning a hammer to a firearm.

 

[Dr Grump]

There is some "logic" from the dumb-ass. Do you know how many illegal-aliens have been in this country longer than my children have been alive? What does time have to do with anything?!?! What kind of an Aussie asshole sticks his nose in American politics? Why do you even fucking care what goes on in the U.S.? And how could you even understand. I guarantee you don't have the slightest clue about the U.S. Constitution or true U.S. history.

I would never be such a pompous ass as to go to a website for the Czech Republic and give my uninformed, uneducated opinion about how they should run their country, who they should elect, and what laws they should implement. Seriously....what kind of pompous asshole does something like that? Inconceivable.

As i said, you get the the US to get its nose out of everybody else's business and I'll go. It'll never happen.

you can't even speak Czech you fucking moron.

I am very informed and educated about the US political system. It's not that hard to follow....

 

[Skull Pilot]

But you are wrong. The murder rate in the UK before the strictest guns laws were ever passed was virtually the same as it is now nearly 50 years later

The gun laws they had before that were also pretty strict. But you leave that part out.

Really you want to provide some proof of that?

And then there is the pesky little thing about our murder rate being exactly the same as it was in 1950 even though there are far more guns now

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gun laws do not lower murder rates but they do seem to increase the likelihood of violent crime since the criminals know their victims are more likely to be defenseless

So you can show me a country with our kind of gun ownership that has a really low murder rate, then?

Didn't think so.

Nope, you can just point to a meaningless statistic like Rape where in the US, 70% o rapes are never reported.

I look forward to a link to your reliable source for that figure.

I think 4.5 out of 100,000 is really low don't you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have no plan to use my gun for anything other than self defense. I will not pull my gun to save you or anyone else (except my wife). If I see you getting beaten and robbed I will call 911 because as far as I'm concerned you chose to be defenseless and to count on the cops to protect you and I respect that choice

OK... But statistically that gun is more likely to shoot someone you or someone you know than an actual criminal (2.7 times more likely)... So you having a gun even though it makes you less safe would have me concerned with your rational. Since you have this gun in this place despite the statistics you must be therefore irrational...

So seeing an irrational with a gun does bother me... It bothers most people...

I'd love to see your statistical data. Please include how owning a car compares to being killed by accidental shooting.

Example: Injury Facts Chart
Heart Disease and Cancer 1 in 7
Chronic Lower Respiratory Disease 1 in 27
Intentional Self-harm 1 in 97
Unintentional Poisoning By and Exposure to Noxious Substances 1 in 103
Motor Vehicle Crash 1 in 113
Fall 1 in 133
Assault by Firearm 1 in 358
Pedestrian Incident 1 in 672
Motorcycle Rider Incident 1 in 948
Unintentional Drowning and Submersion 1 in 1,183
Exposure to Fire, Flames or Smoke 1 in 1,454
Choking from Inhalation and Ingestion of Food 1 in 3,408
Pedacyclist Incident 1 in 4,337
Firearms Discharge 1 in 7,944
Air and Space Transport Incidents 1 in 9,737

If the lying Left was really interested in saving lives, they'd be advocating banning cars and improving mental health care, not restricting Constitutional rights.

You know if you shoot your kid then it is Assault by Firearm... That statistic doesn't differentiate between Criminal and Family Member.... Or yourself....

I don't see any stats, just your opinion.

I know the anti-gun Left prefers emotional rhetoric over facts, but here are more:
Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

If you keep your eyes closed all the time you won't see any thing

Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed

OK so who were the 677 people who were carrying guns?

Were they actual legal CC permit holders or were they gang bangers with a gat stuffed in their pants?

That difference matters

 

[Crixus]

Okay Joe derp, rape is not murder. So you have it clear, here is the definition of murder per google.

Exactly my point. The US only counts forceable rape as rape. The UK counts date rape, groping, indecent exposure and a lot of other things in their statistics. Also, because the UK actually investigates rapes, they resolve a lot more of them. (As opposed to the US, which has a backlog of 10,000 rape kits that haven't been tested even.

See? Same play as all your other threads. Say your shit and run down a gopher hole. Would have said rabbit hole but that would imply that you were slick but your not. Europe has no bering here. Fuck'em.

 

[Crixus]

You can't even own a firearm junior. That's a basic fucking freedom. It's like telling someone they can't own a fork or a knife. It's like telling someone they can't own a drill or a hammer.

Of course I can own a firearm. There are just rules and regulations about how I get one (all of which I meet), and there are certain types I can't buy (as it should be). And only neocon whacko conservative Americans would compare owning a hammer to a firearm.

Not really, but I agree comparing the two is dumb. Thing is, we american as are not typically slaves to the whims of our govrenment and we know the fucktards in our govrenment dont care and can not protect us. Our self defence is our responsibility. This is one of the reasons for our second amendment.

 

[JoeB131]

Please show us your source and link to your claim that Chicago "HASN'T HAD A FIREARMS BAN SINCE 2010. What do you consider Chicago not having an effective ban prior to that date.

The McDonald Decision struck down Chicago's gun ban.

McDonald v. City of Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But even before McDonald, we had gun shops in the Suburbs that intentionally circumvented the g un laws. CPD found 20% of guns recovered in crimes came from one gun store in River forest.

 

[2aguy]

Please show us your source and link to your claim that Chicago "HASN'T HAD A FIREARMS BAN SINCE 2010. What do you consider Chicago not having an effective ban prior to that date.

The McDonald Decision struck down Chicago's gun ban.

McDonald v. City of Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But even before McDonald, we had gun shops in the Suburbs that intentionally circumvented the g un laws. CPD found 20% of guns recovered in crimes came from one gun store in River forest.

They didn't circumvent gun laws asshole...when someone comes in with a clean record, and passes the federally mandated background check you can sell them the gun....twit.........the problem is that you morons think that criminals will just comply with whatever stupid law you pass, instead of going around them or just stealing their gun......

 

[JoeB131]

See? Same play as all your other threads. Say your shit and run down a gopher hole. Would have said rabbit hole but that would imply that you were slick but your not. Europe has no bering here. Fuck'em.

Your argument would have more "bearing" if you could actually spell properly.

But to the point- Murder can be clearly quantified. Rape, not so much, if it isn't reported and isn't investigated.

 

[JoeB131]

They didn't circumvent gun laws asshole...when someone comes in with a clean record, and passes the federally mandated background check you can sell them the gun....twit.........the problem is that you morons think that criminals will just comply with whatever stupid law you pass, instead of going around them or just stealing their gun......

That's why you go after the gun sellers. You really think that gun store in River forest doesn't know who their clientele is?

 

[2aguy]

I have no plan to use my gun for anything other than self defense. I will not pull my gun to save you or anyone else (except my wife). If I see you getting beaten and robbed I will call 911 because as far as I'm concerned you chose to be defenseless and to count on the cops to protect you and I respect that choice

OK... But statistically that gun is more likely to shoot someone you or someone you know than an actual criminal (2.7 times more likely)... So you having a gun even though it makes you less safe would have me concerned with your rational. Since you have this gun in this place despite the statistics you must be therefore irrational...

So seeing an irrational with a gun does bother me... It bothers most people...

I'd love to see your statistical data. Please include how owning a car compares to being killed by accidental shooting.

Example: Injury Facts Chart
Heart Disease and Cancer 1 in 7
Chronic Lower Respiratory Disease 1 in 27
Intentional Self-harm 1 in 97
Unintentional Poisoning By and Exposure to Noxious Substances 1 in 103
Motor Vehicle Crash 1 in 113
Fall 1 in 133
Assault by Firearm 1 in 358
Pedestrian Incident 1 in 672
Motorcycle Rider Incident 1 in 948
Unintentional Drowning and Submersion 1 in 1,183
Exposure to Fire, Flames or Smoke 1 in 1,454
Choking from Inhalation and Ingestion of Food 1 in 3,408
Pedacyclist Incident 1 in 4,337
Firearms Discharge 1 in 7,944
Air and Space Transport Incidents 1 in 9,737

If the lying Left was really interested in saving lives, they'd be advocating banning cars and improving mental health care, not restricting Constitutional rights.

You know if you shoot your kid then it is Assault by Firearm... That statistic doesn't differentiate between Criminal and Family Member.... Or yourself....

I don't see any stats, just your opinion.

I know the anti-gun Left prefers emotional rhetoric over facts, but here are more:
Expanded Homicide Data Table 6

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

If you keep your eyes closed all the time you won't see any thing

Carrying a gun increases risk of getting shot and killed

Yeah......so they looked at people carrying...who happen to be criminals who can't carry guns legally and who are the victims of gun crime....

The victims of gun murder, according to research, are 70-80% of the time career criminals.....with one or more felony convictions.......that is how they get their number....

Law abiding people who carry guns for self defense are more law abiding than other citizens and even more law abiding than sworn police officers.

 

[2aguy]

They didn't circumvent gun laws asshole...when someone comes in with a clean record, and passes the federally mandated background check you can sell them the gun....twit.........the problem is that you morons think that criminals will just comply with whatever stupid law you pass, instead of going around them or just stealing their gun......

That's why you go after the gun sellers. You really think that gun store in River forest doesn't know who their clientele is?

They follow the law, the criminals get around it........most of the bangers are black, so if you refuse to sell to someone who passes the background check and is legally allowed to buy, assholes like you then accuse them of being racists.....

 

[JoeB131]

They follow the law, the criminals get around it........most of the bangers are black, so if you refuse to sell to someone who passes the background check and is legally allowed to buy, assholes like you then accuse them of being racists....

Only 1800 of 16000 murders in the US are "gang related"... so, um, no. Most homicides are in fact domestic violence.

But the gun industry intentionally floods the market with criminal guns. Their whole business model is based on keeping people like you scared so you want more guns.

 

[CowboyTed]

And yet, the violent crime rate is lower in the United States than in Australia. How is that possible?

"Banning" of certain guns will lead to fewer law abiding citizens having the guns and no change in the number of Islamic Terrorists and criminals having the guns. Sounds like a GREAT solution.

Not talking about violent crime. However, I do take issue with your stats. Post a link proving your point.

Talking gun deaths and gun culture. Every person I have ever met who has been punched in the head has lived to fight another day. Don't know anybody who has been shot in the head, but I'm guessing the vast majority end up on a slab...

Well, the US is armed to the teeth at the moment. A lot of those places where these mass shootings occur have CCW or even open carry. How well has that worked vis-a-vis the decline of mass shootings? Not much.

You're a hoot! To make your allegations work, you pretend that violent crimes, rape, assault, attempted murder, home invasions...don't count. That works for you and your morality? Really?

By the way, Pulse was a gun free zone. There was one armed guard outside the facility.

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
By James Slack
UPDATED:18:14 EST, 2 July 2009

Britain's violent crime record is worse than any other country in the European union, it has been revealed.


Official crime figures show the UK also has a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa - widely considered one of the world's most dangerous countries.


The figures comes on the day new Home Secretary Alan Johnson makes his first major speech on crime, promising to be tough on loutish behaviour.

The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents, Canada 935, Australia 920 and South Africa 1,609.

Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: 'This is a damning indictment of this government's comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.



Read more: Britain the most violent country in Europe and even worse than South Africa and U.S.

That is the biggest load of horseshit ever... I have lived in a number of those countries...

South Africa is very dangerous... Sweden is very safe... Netherland and Belgium are only the more high crime in Europe...

 

[2aguy]

They didn't circumvent gun laws asshole...when someone comes in with a clean record, and passes the federally mandated background check you can sell them the gun....twit.........the problem is that you morons think that criminals will just comply with whatever stupid law you pass, instead of going around them or just stealing their gun......

That's why you go after the gun sellers. You really think that gun store in River forest doesn't know who their clientele is?

No....the problem in Chicago is they don't prosecute gun criminals........why? No one knows......since they are a shooting gallery and need to put these guys away...

The Left’s Phony War on Guns, by Kevin D. Williamson, National Review

Chicago has Wild West levels of homicide.

(Worse, in fact; the criminality and violence of the ungoverned West has been greatly exaggerated, and some of those old cow towns had lower per capita crime rates back when they had no formal government than they do today.)

Do you know what kind of crime illegal possession of a firearm is in the state of Illinois?

It is a misdemeanor.

A 2014 study conducted by the Chicago Sun-Times found that in most cases, Cook County judges handed down the minimum sentence for gun possession, and in most cases, the criminals ended up serving far less than that, doing only a few months.

Those charged with simple possession had an average of four prior arrests; those charged with the more serious crime of being a felon in possession of a firearm had an average of ten previous arrests.

Ten arrests, and the eleventh is for a gun-related crime.

One wonders how many undetected crimes are covered by such criminal careers.

Many in Illinois have argued that, given the state of crime there, stiffer sentences are warranted.

A bill was introduced to that end, and it was opposed by Democrats who argued that stiffer sentences for those actually committing crimes with guns would “unfairly target African-Americans,” as the Sun-Times put it.

The NRA, to its discredit, opposed that bill, too, arguing that the penalties for simple possession in absence of other criminal activity were too stiff.

But that’s an argument for liberalizing Illinois gun laws, not for forgoing the punishment of criminals.


The NRA did support harsher punishment for felons in possession of firearms, and for the use of firearms in crimes. Democrats have generally opposed them.

Read more at: The Left’s Phony War on Guns, by Kevin D. Williamson, National Review

 

[JoeB131]

Kevin d. Williamson? Really?

A guy who once advocated executing women who had abortions?

Kevin D. Williamson

A bill was introduced to that end, and it was opposed by Democrats who argued that stiffer sentences for those actually committing crimes with guns would “unfairly target African-Americans,” as the Sun-Times put it.

The NRA, to its discredit, opposed that bill, too, arguing that the penalties for simple possession in absence of other criminal activity were too stiff.

Did you miss that part?

 

[P@triot]

We're not bitching that we have no freedoms - we're bitching that we keep losing them because of ignorant liberals. You're not a U.S. citizen - so why are you listening to all of the "bitching, moaning, whining, and general malaise on this site"? Find an Australian site to spread your stupidity on. Or has your government outlawed websites and freedom of speech?

What freedoms are you missing? You think this site only debates the US? I originally joined this site over Iraq and Afghanistan - places where there are Australian and NZ troops. I have every right to be here. As does any body. Outside of that I've visited threads that have nothing to do with US politics.

Again - what does the U.S. have to do with Australian activity in Iraq and Afghanistan? You're a sovereign nation. The U.S. didn't place a gun to the head of Australian leaders and force them into any war. If you want to cry like a little coward about stopping terrorism, cry to Australian leaders and the Australian people. We really don't care what you think about it. But maybe your own country will.