Seattle Defeats The NRA

[2aguy]

There is a story perpetuated by propaganda ministries that the number of gun sales have gone up, and that is why murders have gone down. We've seen that story parroted right here in this topic.

This is why it is particularly funny to see someone saying that correlation does not equal causation when confronted with the fact the percentage of gun ownership has plunged.

"More guns" does not mean "more gun owners".

It's a simple fact there is a much smaller percentage of gun owners in America.

If the rubes buy into the story that gun ownership is linked to the murder rate, then how come they suddenly deny it is when shown the percentage of owners is at a record low?


Hmmmm...

Gun-Homicide Rate Decreased as Gun Ownership Increased


Based on data from a 2012 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report(and additional data from another Wonkblog article “There are now more guns than people in the United States”), the number of privately owned firearms in U.S. increased from about 185 million in 1993 to 357 million in 2013.

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Is gun ownership really down in America? | Fox News

Surely, gun control advocates such as GSS director Tom Smith view this decline as a good thing. In a 2003 book of mine, I quoted Smith as saying that the large drop in gun ownership would “make it easier for politicians to do the right thing on guns” and pass more restrictive regulations.

Other gun control advocates have mentioned to me that they hope that if people believe fewer people own guns, that may cause others to rethink their decision to own one themselves. It is part of the reason they dramatically exaggerate the risks of having guns in the home.

The Associated Press and Time ignored other polls by Gallup and ABC News/Washington Post.

These polls show that gun ownership rates have been flat over the same period. According to Gallup, household gun ownership has ranged from 51 percent in 1994 to 34 percent in 1999. In 2014, it was at 42 percent – comparable to the 43-45 percent figures during the 1970s.

A 2011 Gallup poll with the headline “Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993” appears to have gotten no news coverage.

The ABC News/Washington Post poll shows an even more stable pattern, with household gun ownership between 44 and 46 percent in 1999. In 2013, the ownership rate was 43 percent.

There are other measures that suggest that we should be very careful of relying too heavily on polling to gauge the level of gun ownership. For example, the nationally number of concealed handgun permits has soared over the last decade: rising from about 2.7 million in 1999 to 4.6 million in 2007 to 11.1 million in 2014.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) shows that the number of gun purchases has grown dramatically over time –doubling from 2006 to 2014.

I didn't realize that Gallup was part of the NRA.....

How about ABC news/Washington Post...are they also on the payroll of the NRA?

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

The only ones defeted here are the citizens of Seattle. Gun ownership will go down and crime will go up. The anti-gunners should pat themselves on the back.

 

[Stephanie]

The only ones defeted here are the citizens of Seattle. Gun ownership will go down and crime will go up. The anti-gunners should pat themselves on the back.

hell the criminals are packing and headed there already probably. their own fault. let their government or all them "city council member's protect them, see how that works out for them

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

The only ones defeted here are the citizens of Seattle. Gun ownership will go down and crime will go up. The anti-gunners should pat themselves on the back.

hell the criminals are packing and headed there already probably. their own fault. let their government or all them "city council member's protect them, see how that works out for them

Haven't you heard? The murderers have agreed to pay the tax...lol!

 

[Rustic]

It's amazing how many people believe "If the gun shops close, the whole city's gonna die!"

Only innocent people die if the gun shops close...

You mean those intent on murdering their spouse already have sufficient stockpiles?

If less people own guns, then the chances of spousal murder drops.

Point of fact, the percentage of gun owners is at an all time record low, as is the homicide rate. That's not a coincidence.

Na, not really.
The more guns the citizens(law abiding) of this country has the safer everyone is.

Buy more guns and ammo...

 

[BluesLegend]

And watch gun dealers move out f Seattle to the suburbs, depriving the city of tax revenue.
AMazingly every attempt to "stilck it" to gun owners falls flat.

Like many dumb ass liberal laws this one doesn't actually accomplish anything. There are only 7 gun dealers listed in the area, they would have to sell close to 3,000 guns each to raise the estimated $500k of tax revenue which is a small fraction of what the $12 million the city says its losing. I was born here but these asshole liberals from California have moved up here and taken over. I'm pretty close to packing up and leaving and taking all my money with me.

 

[Rustic]

The country is full of weak, spineless progressives who don't have a lick of common sense. If they did they would know firearms are absolutely harmless on their own.
Fact, most of the violent crimes in this country are in urban areas with overly intrusive gun control policies.

One has to be at brain-dead dumb ass son of a bitch who doesn't have a clue in life to think more laws will help...

 

[TNHarley]

How many of those crimes are done by legally obtained guns?

All of the mass shootings we have been talking about this year were. How's that for starters?

In Seattle.

 

[TNHarley]

How many of those crimes are done by legally obtained guns?

All of the mass shootings we have been talking about this year were. How's that for starters?

And now in Seattle the mass shooters will pay the tax and then shoot people......what exactly was solved? And then the criminals won't pay taxes on stolen bullets......

I don't think you understand how a Pigovian tax works.

A guy with a gun shoots somebody. The outcome is the expenditure of a lot of money on medical bills, funerals, police, flowers, welfare for orphans, etc. Those costs are not paid by the shooter. The bulk of it is paid for by the public.

With a Pigovian tax, the gun buyers are helping to pay for the externalities which are a direct result of those gun sales.

So that is exactly what was solved.

Not completely, since the tax doesn't even come close to paying the full freight of Seattle's externalities.

More law abiding gun citizens getting fucked. and I bet a lot of those gun deaths are by guns that were not purchased correctly. Maybe you can prove me otherwise? if not, at least explain how this isn't just another attack on the middle class to make a bunch of emotional limp wrists happy. I'll wait.

 

[2aguy]

Again with the mantra..." Background checks,......background checks...." why do you keep saying that?...you say it as though it has some importance in stopping gun crime.....

Because it does.

Take a gander at this:

See that sudden plunge after 1993?

That's when the Brady Act was passed. The Brady Act is when federal background checks were first implemented.

Again, not a coincidence.

Nope....more people began to carry guns and they passed 3 strikes.....since the only way to really stop crime is to stop bad guys.....you either kill them or lock them up for a long time.....

And since criminals steal their guns or use straw buyers to get their guns...how on earth can you say background checks stopped crimes....

And mass shootings increased after the Brady bill....how did it not stop that?

You have no idea what you are talking about....

The only gun control that works is locking up criminals who use guns for a long time.

 

[2aguy]

Right-to-lifers believe in this exact same principal being used by Seattle: Make it tougher to get to X, and the incidence of Y will decrease.

No.....make the girl or woman see the baby as a baby and it is harder to kill it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Again with the mantra..." Background checks,......background checks...." why do you keep saying that?...you say it as though it has some importance in stopping gun crime.....

Because it does.

Take a gander at this:

See that sudden plunge after 1993?

That's when the Brady Act was passed. The Brady Act is when federal background checks were first implemented.

Again, not a coincidence.

Nope....more people began to carry guns and they passed 3 strikes.....since the only way to really stop crime is to stop bad guys.....you either kill them or lock them up for a long time.....

And since criminals steal their guns or use straw buyers to get their guns...how on earth can you say background checks stopped crimes....

And mass shootings increased after the Brady bill....how did it not stop that?

You have no idea what you are talking about....

The only gun control that works is locking up criminals who use guns for a long time.

G5000's judgement is a little addled. Maybe all that piss he's been guzzling.

More guns=less crime. The facts are obvious.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Right law abiding white gun owners should pay a tax because blacks and illegals shoot people that makes perfect sense. /sarcasm Fortunately conservatives don't live in Seattle its infested with liberals from California so they taxed themselves the idiots.

I always have to ask myself if someone who writes something like this would actually say it out loud in public and allow themselves to be identified with such stupid, ignorant racist ideas

 

[The Rabbi]

Right law abiding white gun owners should pay a tax because blacks and illegals shoot people that makes perfect sense. /sarcasm Fortunately conservatives don't live in Seattle its infested with liberals from California so they taxed themselves the idiots.

I always have to ask myself if someone who writes something like this would actually say it out loud in public and allow themselves to be identified with such stupid, ignorant racist ideas

I sometimes ask myself if someone can be this stupid or are you just pretending.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Right law abiding white gun owners should pay a tax because blacks and illegals shoot people that makes perfect sense. /sarcasm Fortunately conservatives don't live in Seattle its infested with liberals from California so they taxed themselves the idiots.

I always have to ask myself if someone who writes something like this would actually say it out loud in public and allow themselves to be identified with such stupid, ignorant racist ideas

I sometimes ask myself if someone can be this stupid or are you just pretending.

You are another one who could never state your real opinions publicly and let your identity be known because you don't want to be thought of as racist.

Everything I've ever said on this board is something I've already said to my friends and family members and coworkers and people on planes and trains. You can't say that for yourself.

 

[The Rabbi]

Right law abiding white gun owners should pay a tax because blacks and illegals shoot people that makes perfect sense. /sarcasm Fortunately conservatives don't live in Seattle its infested with liberals from California so they taxed themselves the idiots.

I always have to ask myself if someone who writes something like this would actually say it out loud in public and allow themselves to be identified with such stupid, ignorant racist ideas

I sometimes ask myself if someone can be this stupid or are you just pretending.

You are another one who could never state your real opinions publicly and let your identity be known because you don't want to be thought of as racist.

Everything I've ever said on this board is something I've already said to my friends and family members and coworkers and people on planes and trains. You can't say that for yourself.

You have no fucking idea what I have or havent said to people, No Pee-Pee.
And I dispute you actually have friends.

 

[BluesLegend]

Right law abiding white gun owners should pay a tax because blacks and illegals shoot people that makes perfect sense. /sarcasm Fortunately conservatives don't live in Seattle its infested with liberals from California so they taxed themselves the idiots.

I always have to ask myself if someone who writes something like this would actually say it out loud in public and allow themselves to be identified with such stupid, ignorant racist ideas

Facts are racist?

 

[BluesLegend]

How many of those crimes are done by legally obtained guns?

All of the mass shootings we have been talking about this year were. How's that for starters?

And now in Seattle the mass shooters will pay the tax and then shoot people......what exactly was solved? And then the criminals won't pay taxes on stolen bullets......

I don't think you understand how a Pigovian tax works.

A guy with a gun shoots somebody. The outcome is the expenditure of a lot of money on medical bills, funerals, police, flowers, welfare for orphans, etc. Those costs are not paid by the shooter. The bulk of it is paid for by the public.

With a Pigovian tax, the gun buyers are helping to pay for the externalities which are a direct result of those gun sales.

So that is exactly what was solved.

Not completely, since the tax doesn't even come close to paying the full freight of Seattle's externalities.

More law abiding gun citizens getting fucked. and I bet a lot of those gun deaths are by guns that were not purchased correctly. Maybe you can prove me otherwise? if not, at least explain how this isn't just another attack on the middle class to make a bunch of emotional limp wrists happy. I'll wait.

If its any consolation evolution will eventually weed out the left and conservatives will have the earth all to themselves.

 

[Star]

It's amazing how many people believe "If the gun shops close, the whole city's gonna die!"

Nobody belives that. Strawman fallacy.
But look at places where gun shops are restricted: NYC, Chicago, DC. And look at places where they arent: Dallas, Atlanta, Miami. Which places have higher rates of violent crime?

Rather than doing the cowardly thing - asking a question to get your point across without (that's so Donald Trumpish) taking responsibility for making the point, why don't you tell us how gun crime/violence in cities with lax gun laws compare to cities with strong gun laws per capita.

BTW, Seattle's new gun law/tax that takes effect January 1st is similar to Chicago's law/tax - I'm OK with that, why wouldn't I be?
.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's amazing how many people believe "If the gun shops close, the whole city's gonna die!"

Nobody belives that. Strawman fallacy.
But look at places where gun shops are restricted: NYC, Chicago, DC. And look at places where they arent: Dallas, Atlanta, Miami. Which places have higher rates of violent crime?

Rather than doing the cowardly thing - asking a question to get your point across without (that's so Donald Trumpish) taking responsibility for making the point, why don't you tell us how gun crime/violence in cities with lax gun laws compare to cities with strong gun laws per capita.

BTW, Seattle's new gun law/tax that takes effect January 1st is similar to Chicago's law/tax - I'm OK with that, why wouldn't I be?
.

Well, Chicago, DC, and LA have some of the toughest gun laws on the books. Houston, Atlanta, and Miami some of the weakest. But the crime rate is much higher in the first set than the second set.