Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[Vox]

Okay, I'll return (thanks but really, the applause isn't necessary) to say all SS and Medicare and yes, probably all pensions, will soon have to be means-tested. I know half a dozen millionaires taking SS payments and maintaining their aging husks on Sam's dime. That's bullshit. Set an amount that a person is NETTING after taxes and make it a threshold for receiving benefits. If the retiree should fall under the that mark any given year, then the benefits are restored for that year. Don't wail about the "fairness" of this to me....I don't give a shit who likes it or doesn't....it's the only way these programs can stay solvent given the Fortune 500 has abandoned us to hire the yellow man to do what used to be our jobs while we're left to sell each other insurance and cheeseburgers....only in America eh?

no, what you write is bullshit.

those millionaires paid much more to the SS the those on the other end of the stick ever imagined. and you can't force Detroit contracts on a local level on the whole nation and at the same time deny obligations of the same type of contract to others based on their income.
Not because it's immoral.
Because it will damage the SS - people are very flexible in their inventions and guess what - the same millionaires you are aiming at will eventually trick the system to paid LESS than MORE.

The ones who are paying the least in taxes are exactly the two sides of the opposite diameter - the very rich and the so-called poor. The load is on the man in the middle.
You want to increase it even more?

Sorry, my idiot quota is full for the day.....try again tomorrow.

I appreciate your self-criticism in declaring yourself an idiot. But I believe you can do better.

 

[thanatos144]

I am thinking some need to act f****** read what I write instead of assuming what I'm saying. I have yet to say that the federal government should bail out Detroit. I wish to God you idiots would stop arguing with me about a point I've never even f****** made

 

[bucs90]

Lots of talk about doing that and i say go for it. These were all affirmative action hires and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

if there is no money to pay them, what other alternative is there?

You said it perfectly.

People tend to forget, most government jobs SUCK. The pay in most places is mediocre (some are great, so let me acknowledge that before right wingers start bitching, but of the millions of local, state, county level jobs, most dont pay great).

The jobs are almost always thankless.

There is little to no upward mobility. You will NEVER get rich working 99% of government jobs, no matter how hard you work.



Governments hire in the same labor market as anyone else. "Government workers" aren't just birthed or bestowed upon the world by Satan (like some RW'ers think). They are just people who at one time were looking for a job in the world, with govt or private sector. They come and go, some leave for private sector work and more money.


So Governments compete for labor, they compete with other governments, they compete with all the private sector. And they, too, must offer competitive wages and benefits, or else they wouldnt get anyone worth a damn. They cant offer the immediate salary that a private company can, so for decades they offered stability and great benefits.


But, without that to offer, they'll only get shitty employees who cant find a job anywhere else. Or, as the guy said, people who "dont deserve the job". Well, if We The People aren't willing to pay for good employees, then WE DONT DESERVE GOOD EMPLOYEES in those jobs.

We get what we pay for.

 

[bucs90]

People dont want to acknowledge that.

- Government hires from the same labor pool as everyone else, and must compete with other governmetns as well as the private sector for good workers.

- Government must offer competitive pay/beneifts to draw good employees, and to retain them.

Otherwise, we'll only get shittier and shittier employees providing our services. I know most of you far right guys say "Tough shit, I dont give a damn, I dont need the government anyway". And you may not, yet.

But when the roads start crumbling, and crime starts rising, and waves of uneducate kids start graduating, and utilities start failing, just remember "You get what you pay for".

And when lightning strikes your home (which is bigger due to paying less in taxes), and it catches on fire, and you CALL THE GOVERNMENT in a panic saying you need the Fire Department..........dont be too pissed when they tell you that due to cutbacks, they dont have a truck available just yet because both available trucks are on other fires, BUT, they called the city 20 miles away and asked for aid and that city is trying to send one of their trucks to your burning home.......and they should be there in 20-25 minutes tops!!!!!


Everyone thinks they dont need a good government or good government service.........until they do need it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

.

They most likely will lose it all. And that happens in contracts all the time. People lose money they are promised in deals, because one party cannot pay the money promised. I've had some clients who couldn't pay their bills and it was more expensive to litigate the process than to just write it off as a loss.

You can sue people all you want for a breach of contract, but if they don't have the money, they don't have the money. Squeeze a rock all you want, you will never get juice.

They expect to get "the juice" from the rest of the taxpayers in the United States. You know, everyone who didn't have anything to do with this dirty deal.

You can bitch and moan all you like but you know damn well that Detroit will be bailed out one way or another.

Then your going to have to bail out the state of illinois and the rest, you really believe in people not paying for bad behaivor/risks dont ya? what s next the goverment bailing out folks who lost in Vegas? on the stock market? on power ball? All they will do than is the same thing they did the first time and think dont worry the suckers will bail us out again

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Fuck DEEtroit and fuck liberals.. NO BAIL OUT.. That's just too damn bad.. and more are coming: More LEFTIST SHITHOLES:

The nonprofit group also released a report in March that found New York City has a combined $1.15 billion in under-funded pension and health-care costs, followed by such major cities as Philadelphia, at $8.6 billion. In comparison, that figure for Detroit was $12.9 billion.

Baltimore is also among the most under funded cities regarding retiree health care, when considering how much it would cost individual households. The amount is $10, 208 per household.


Read more: Detroit bankruptcy raises concerns about other US cites under huge retiree debt | Fox News

 

[Harry Dresden]

Where did I ever say I care about those people?

Read my posts, moron. I couldn't give a fuck less about those thieving dirtbags.

I've said it time and again; they aren't victims, they're accomplices, co-conspirators, they drove the get-away car while the dimocrap scum politicians and the Union thugs were robbing the hard-working people of Dee-Troit blind.

Their payoff was in the form of bloated paychecks and ridiculous pensions and benefits.

As to caring about myself? Yes, but not enough to STEAL from hard-working Americans.

That is what dimorap scum do. They steal money from people who work for it and give it to people who vote dimocrap.

Like you. Which part of the gubmint teat are you suckling from?

see this is what i was talking about Marty right here......"oh no Harry....we on the right care about people and what happens to them....we just think Unions this and Unions that".....and then along comes someone like Miss Priss here who thinks her shit dont stink......Republicans will always have a problem as long as they let people like this ancient retired bitch here speak .......Dean is actually right about many on the right....Miss my shit dont stink is one of them.....

So even if polticians are fucking people over, as long as they are "nice" about it, everything is hunky dory?

That is what got the public union workers in this trouble in the first place.

not talking about Politicians Marty....they are not people.....they all have theirs they dont give a fuck.....i am talking about Righties right here in this forum.....thats what many of them have said.....until the very next post.....

 

[Jarlaxle]

Of course they should not, and no political reasons are behind my opinion.

Like most folks they paid into their pension fund, and for that reason alone should get their money due to them. Why is there always some political BS that gets in the way of just plain ole common sense?

News flash: THE MONEY JUST ISN'T THERE! The city is BROKE!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Let me first say that I have no remorse, no sad momentary thoughts of how terrible it is that Detroit is bankrupt, both fiscally and morally. Detroit put ITSELF in this position. It has not had a fiscally responsible mayor since 1961. For the past 20 years, those with the knowledge have been warning of this occurrance like an oncoming train, yet the people who were in charge in Detroit did not want to listen, instead being concerned with 'getting their own'. Have you ever listened to some of the audio from Detroit city council meetings? Have you ever heard about how they talk about absolute CRAP (naming a tunnel) over and over and fail to even consider hard decisions? Does the name Kwame Kilpatrick ring a bell? John Conyers?

I heard a clip of a Detroit City Councilwoman talking about how the Federal Government should bail out Detroit. Let me absolutely clear about this: I have already contacted my Senators and Congressmen and advised that I would be VEHEMENTLY AGAINST bailing out Detroit in any fashion. Detroit made the bed it now has to lie in. Detroit, perhaps the State of Michigan, should be responsible for cleaning up the mess.

It was not the Automobile industry or any other business that left Detroit in the position that it finds itself currently facing. It was the lack of responsible leadership that tried to feather its own political bed with sweetheart deals for labor unions that they can now ill afford. It is the retired and union membership that will now pay for earlier collusion with city officials.

If you want to see what unopposed liberalism will get you, look at Detroit. Good job Democrats...

Bullshit. Refurbish and reopen the factories and we'll see who eats crow.

Nobody is stupid enough to do that. Better to build new ones somewhere else.

 

[Robodoon]

Lots of talk about doing that and i say go for it. These were all affirmative action hires and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

If the people of Detroit want to support their retirement, then fine.

But the whole thing was a shame from the beginning. Stop asking the rest of America to support a socialist model.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Okay, I'll return (thanks but really, the applause isn't necessary) to say all SS and Medicare and yes, probably all pensions, will soon have to be means-tested. I know half a dozen millionaires taking SS payments and maintaining their aging husks on Sam's dime. That's bullshit. Set an amount that a person is NETTING after taxes and make it a threshold for receiving benefits. If the retiree should fall under the that mark any given year, then the benefits are restored for that year. Don't wail about the "fairness" of this to me....I don't give a shit who likes it or doesn't....it's the only way these programs can stay solvent given the Fortune 500 has abandoned us to hire the yellow man to do what used to be our jobs while we're left to sell each other insurance and cheeseburgers....only in America eh?

So basically turn SS into another tax instead of a retirement program.

If people paid into it, they should get money out of it. Anything else is another money grab by envious hucksters such as yourself, always looking for someone else to pay for thier stuff.

You didn't pay into anything. SS is already a tax with the proceeds immediately spent on someone else. It's no different than any other tax expenditure, regardless of what lies the politicians are spending.

But here's the thing: your money is already gone, spent, pissed away by the people sent to DC. The only way to get the money you were taxed (or as so many incorrectly term it "pay into the system") is to take it from someone else. That's the only way.

You or your grandchildren will have to be burdened by not getting anything back from a system that is no longer sustainable (if it ever was). Which will it be?

Social Security is the worlds longest-running Ponzi scheme. It really is that simple. Bernie Madoff WISHES his scheme could have been one-tenth as successful as Social Security!

 

[ShootSpeeders]

People dont want to acknowledge that.

- Government hires from the same labor pool as everyone else, and must compete with other governmetns as well as the private sector for good workers.

.

No the govt doesn't. They limit themselves to negros, hispos, disabled, perverts, and women. No qualifications needed if you're on of those 5 groups. Govt won't hire a straight white male unless it's an important job.

 

[Interpol]

I think it's bad business to take away or cut their pensions because then we'd have a situation where people go on welfare.

What we need to really worry about are those close to $7 billion in corporate subsidies for corporations that don't need them.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
News flash: THE MONEY JUST ISN'T THERE! The city is BROKE!

They're still paying out the welfare checks aren't they?

think

 

[ShootSpeeders]

I think it's bad business to take away or cut their pensions because then we'd have a situation where people go on welfare.

.

We need to eliminate welfare before anyone's pension check is cut. It's crazy to give money to people you have no obligation to, while denying payment to those you promised payment to.

 

[bripat9643]

I think it's bad business to take away or cut their pensions because then we'd have a situation where people go on welfare.

.

We need to eliminate welfare before anyone's pension check is cut. It's crazy to give money to people you have no obligation to, while denying payment to those you promised payment to.

I didn't promise the jack shit.

 

[thanatos144]

I think it's bad business to take away or cut their pensions because then we'd have a situation where people go on welfare.

.

We need to eliminate welfare before anyone's pension check is cut. It's crazy to give money to people you have no obligation to, while denying payment to those you promised payment to.

I didn't promise the jack shit.

yes we know you only care for your precious Confederate states.

 

[Seawytch]

Fuck DEEtroit and fuck liberals.. NO BAIL OUT.. That's just too damn bad.. and more are coming: More LEFTIST SHITHOLES:

The nonprofit group also released a report in March that found New York City has a combined $1.15 billion in under-funded pension and health-care costs, followed by such major cities as Philadelphia, at $8.6 billion. In comparison, that figure for Detroit was $12.9 billion.

Baltimore is also among the most under funded cities regarding retiree health care, when considering how much it would cost individual households. The amount is $10, 208 per household.


Read more: Detroit bankruptcy raises concerns about other US cites under huge retiree debt | Fox News

You forgot one...

Nation can't afford military's generous retirement system | Reader's Opinion | The News Tribune

 

[Edgetho]

We need to eliminate welfare before anyone's pension check is cut. It's crazy to give money to people you have no obligation to, while denying payment to those you promised payment to.

I didn't promise the jack shit.

yes we know you only care for your precious Confederate states.

If you contract with me to cut your lawn and you can't afford to pay me when I'm done, that doesn't give you the right to break into your neighbor's house and steal from him what you owe me.

Get that through your head.

I am sick and tired of enriching Public Sector dimocraps.

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com


Snyder: Public Employees Make Twice As Much As Private Sector | Interlochen Public Radio

 

[Cookie]

I am waiting for the BK process to play out with Detroit. The city needs to sell off assets and get back into making sensible management decisions once their givernment has been shrunk to the bare minimums.

I don't think the pensioners have much to worry about. They are among the first in line to get their money.

In the meantime, I've been discouraged when I read reports that the city council in Detroit voted to support a Trayvon Martin petition (or some such thing). They have so many more important issues! What a joke.

I've also been disappointed to read how many other cities have been relying on an influx of federal cash to keep afloat. I think the economy has been and still is much worse than anyone has been willing to admit ... up to now.