Zone1 Should I ask "Why God?" or should I ask "how did the devil become so powerful"?

[toobfreak]

Ummm....the Book of Job might contradict your claim that God doesn't allow suffering.

You misunderstand. Suffering is a quality of the material world that people endure or go through by choosing to live here apart from God.

 

[Blues Man]

Maybe not directly or always, but suffering IS the plenary quality of existing apart from God in the material world.

I disagree

 

[SweetSue92]

You misunderstand. Suffering is a quality of the material world that people endure or go through by choosing to live here apart from God.

Jesus suffered.

Did He live apart from God?

 

[toobfreak]

I disagree

Sorry, I wasn't offering you my opinion.

 

[Blues Man]

God is Just. Justice is merciful.

This isn't the end yet.

How is it just to create an immortal agent of evil and unleash it on a mortal population and then threaten the mortals with eternal damnation?

 

[Blues Man]

Sorry, I wasn't offering you my opinion.

That's exactly what you did.

 

[SweetSue92]

How is it just to create an immortal agent of evil and unleash it on a mortal population and then threaten the mortals with eternal damnation?

How is it just to create children in a fallen world?

It was worth it.

 

[Blues Man]

How is it just to create children in a fallen world?

It was worth it.

But you didn;t create the world did you?

IF you could create a world for your children toi live in would you include an immortal agent of evil that is not subject to any punishment in that world?

 

[toobfreak]

Jesus suffered.

He allowed his body to suffer.

Did He live apart from God?

Remember what I said about forgetfulness of God and the identity of self? Jesus was forever a part of God manifest here on Earth for the good of man. There was no identity of his being separate from the Lord irregardless of whatever events took place here on Earth in his life as Jesus.

 

[toobfreak]

That's exactly what you did.

You are confused.

 

[SweetSue92]

But you didn;t create the world did you?

IF you could create a world for your children toi live in would you include an immortal agent of evil that is not subject to any punishment in that world?

You realize God did create that world. It was called Eden.

Adam and Eve lived in Paradise on earth, basically. They had one direction: do not eat of this tree. Satan tempted them; they lost. A lot.

God saw it all and said, still worth it. Same as human parents do now, when they decide to have children.

We can go round and round on this all day, but let's not. You reject God and His idea that it was worth it. Fine. You have that right. It won't serve you well eternally but you have been told that before. So be it.

 

[SweetSue92]

He allowed his body to suffer.


Remember what I said about forgetfulness of God and the identity of self? Jesus was forever a part of God manifest here on Earth for the good of man. There was no identity of his being separate from the Lord irregardless of whatever events took place here on Earth in his life as Jesus.

Jesus Himself said, "In this world you will have trouble. But take heart, I have overcome the world." --John 16:33

Trouble = suffering

The Bible also says that when the New Kingdom is enacted, God will "wipe every tear from their eyes"

Tears = suffering

This idea that people only suffer when they feel disconnected from God or whatever you're trying to put forth here--no. The Bible discredits this over and over.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

WHat people choose has nothin g to do with the fact that a god who supposedly loves his creations created satan and unleashed him

He did not create him. Lucifer CHOSE to rebel against God, just as you have.

You're responsible for every choice you make. You are without excuse on Judgement Day.

 

[Blues Man]

You realize God did create that world. It was called Eden.

Adam and Eve lived in Paradise on earth, basically. They had one direction: do not eat of this tree. Satan tempted them; they lost. A lot.

God saw it all and said, still worth it. Same as human parents do now, when they decide to have children.

We can go round and round on this all day, but let's not. You reject God and His idea that it was worth it. Fine. You have that right. It won't serve you well eternally but you have been told that before. So be it.

I don't reject gods I just don't think the god in the OT or the NT are anything but man made fictions

 

[Clyde 154]

Free will of humans has nothing to do with the fac t that the god you say loves his creations also created Satan to torment them

Comprehension problems with simple English? Yeah........and you have not free will........the devil made you respond to this thread.

God did not create Satan to torment anyone, Satan was created as an angel...........Angel in both Hebrew and Greek simply means "messenger". Thus, Satan being an angel of God was created as a messenger (Heb.2:2). The scriptures tell us that angels were created by God in numbers that are beyond count (Heb.12:22). All angels are spiritual beings as is God (Heb. 1:14). All were created as part of creation in the beginning (Col.1:16-17, Ps.148:2-5)

Angels are created with "free will" because they can choose to sin or not to sin. (2 Peter 2:4). As demonstrated, God does not know what "thoughts" men or angels will be thinking in the future because both angels and men were created with "free will". As pointed out.......if God could foretell the future thoughts of men or angels.........why create those who will choose to be evil and rebel against His authority? God was sorry that He created man on earth, because God realized that men's thoughts by majority were continually evil. (Genesis 6:6) This points out that God did not know what men would be thinking and reasoning in the future once created.

Not even the God of creation that created everything that ever existed can look into a future that does not yet exist....but God can control everything in the present because He is omnipotent (all powerful), omnipresent (present everywhere at once), and omniscient (all wise). God did not know that Satan would freely decide to lead a rebellion in heaven and be cast out of heaven (Rev. 12:9)

How does God control "future events"? The scriptures plainly tell us........God does not know what man nor angel will be thinking and reasoning because both have free willl. But, God can make a plan, and when the proper time comes around (a plan that He has made in the past.....will be implemented at a time of God's choosing. Who is going to stop the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent...........God from controlling His creation IN THE PRESENT?

Read Comprehend as God tells you how He controls future events, even though the thoughts of free will thinking and reasoning by men or angel have not yet been thought. Its not through seeing the future before it happens, its though planning for the future while in the present and implementing those plans at a time of His choosing.

Isaiah 46:8-11

 

[Blues Man]

He did not create him. Lucifer CHOSE to rebel against God, just as you have.

You're responsible for every choice you make. You are without excuse on Judgement Day.

Of course he created Satan.

Your god created everything.

But why didn't he punish Satan for his choices as the bible says he will punish mortals? Why did he make Satan immortal and exempt from eternal damnation?

 

[Blues Man]

Comprehension problems with simple English?

God did not create Satan to torment anyone, Satan was created as an angel...........Angel in both Hebrew and Greek simply means "messenger". Thus, Satan being an angel of God was created as a messenger (Heb.2:2). The scriptures tell us that angels were created by God in numbers that are beyond count (Heb.12:22). All angels are spiritual beings as is God (Heb. 1:14). All were created as part of creation in the beginning (Col.1:16-17, Ps.148:2-5)

Angels are created with "free will" because they can choose to sin or not to sin. (2 Peter 2:4). As demonstrated, God does not know what "thoughts" men or angels will be thinking in the future because both angels and men were created with "free will". As pointed out.......if God could foretell the future thoughts of men or angels.........why create those who will choose to be evil and rebel against His authority? God was sorry that He created man on earth, because God realized that men's thoughts by majority were continually evil. (Genesis 6:6) This points out that God did not know what men would be thinking and reasoning in the future once created.

Not even the God of creation that created everything that ever existed can look into a future that does not yet exist....but God can control everything in the present because He is omnipotent (all powerful), omnipresent (present everywhere at once), and omniscient (all wise). God did not know that Satan would freely decide to lead a rebellion in heaven and be cast out of heaven (Rev. 12:9)

How does God control "future events"? The scriptures plainly tell us........God does not know what man nor angel will be thinking and reasoning because both have free willl. But, God can make a plan, and when the proper time comes around (a plan that He has made in the past.....will be implemented at a time of God's choosing. Who is going to stop the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent...........God from controlling His creation IN THE PRESENT?

Read Comprehend as God tell you how He controls future events, even though the thoughts of free will thinking and reasoning by men or angel have not yet been thought. Its not through seeing the future before it happens, its though planning for the future while in the present and implementing those plans at a time of His choosing.

your god allowed Satan to remain immortal and instead of subjecting him to eternal damnation and safeguarding his mortal creations he allows Satan to wreak his havoc on Earth

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't reject gods I just don't think the god in the OT or the NT are anything but man made fictions

Then quit bitching about a god you don't believe in

 

[BreezeWood]

I am not subject to Satan. He has no power over me; I am free.

that does not exist - he - reading your phony book is not a triumph over evil, what's your secret ... the pure state of your existence. christian.

 

[Clyde 154]

Free will of humans has nothing to do with the fac t that the god you say loves his creations also created Satan to torment them

Com

your god allowed Satan to remain immortal and instead of subjecting him to eternal damnation and safeguarding his mortal creations he allows Satan to wreak his havoc on Earth

First things first. Look up "reprobate mind" -- Romans 1:28. Next: Sock Puppet. Next Logic: Clearly you have free will.....or was it Satan that decided for you that you must post on this thread?

God cast Satan down to earth from heaven........and Satan became the god of this world.(2 Cor. 4:4) Now you are blaming God for YOUR THOUGHTS and WEAKNESSESS? Satan makes you do it? God creates......once created, everything functions by the laws that God created to control them.......natural things play out as the laws of nature (that God created) dictate. Millions and millions of men, women, and yes even children die every day.......death is natural.


You sin, Satan Sins......everyone sins because YOU CHOOSE TO SIN through free will decisions. God has no respect of person (Romans 2:11) The rain fallls on the just and the unjust. No one is special.....you are a creation with the will to create your own destiny, by the choices you make...i.e., judgments.

Everything natural/physical was created with an expiration date.......except the Spirit/Soul of man which was created with eternity in mind. What? You are special and God should make your decisions for you, so you will not stump your little toe? If you stump your toe.........God or the Devil is to blame........not the fact that you chose to walk around in your bare feet?

Read again be enlightened. The Holy scriptures ...the written Word of God........tells us that God had established a plan for man's salvation through Jesus Christ even before the world's were created (1 Peter 1:20), as the Apostle put it, "before time itself began (2 Tim. 1:9).

The scriptures also tell us that this plan was hidden from mankind (Eph. 3:5,6), even from the prophets who foretold of this plan but did not comprehend it (1 Peter 1:10-12).....it was a mystery. We are told that the plan would be revealed by the Holy Spirit of God, aka. the Spirit of Truth through the Apostles of Christ and the prophets at the appropriate time (Eph. 3:5, 1 Peter 1:12).

We are also told that when we read what is written in the Word of God.......we can understand it (though some, such as you pretend they cannot) -- Eph. 3:4. In fact we as Christians are "commanded" to understand the will of God (through what is written, His laws of morality..etc.,) -- Eph. 5:17.

Most imporantly. God would have ALL MEN BE SAVED, God does not desire any man be eternally lost........God offers this salvation to all mankind, how? By coming to the knowlege of the Truth (1 Tim. 2:3,4). What is truth? The word of God is truth (John 17:17)

The "mystery" has been revealed. (Col. 1:26) Don't act as if it has not.

If you choose to be "called out from the world".......enter the kingdom of God, the church that Christ created (Matt. 16)......you will be guided into all truth and not be subject to the snares and evil of this world. Its your choice. Choose this day whom you will serve, as for me and my family, we will serve God. (Jos. 24:15)