Should "IQ" Be a Dirty Word?

[Godboy]

As usual, you have no argument. Let me know if you come up with something.

Stupid generalizations like yours are why so many discussions go nowhere.

AAAAAAND you STILL have no logical argument to refute what i said. Let me know if you think of something.

It makes me sad that you need this explained to you. Sweeping generalizations ARE illogical.

Its a generalization. What made you think it applied to every single person? You arent very bright, which becomes more and more evident with every useless post you make.

You fit the last sentence perfectly.

Piggy backing on my dig only shows that you have no creativity. You should strive to be better.

 

[Godboy]

The strongest correlation between academic success and financial success in life is I.Q. Not race, not gender, not any environmental factors. It is I..Q. I repeat race is not a factor. In other words, if you are an intelligent black man (I.Q. 115 or above) your odds of being academically and financially successful are a virtual certainty, and are statistically no different than whites.

You can debate all day long about what I.Q. tests measure. The fact is, it does not matter. I.Q. tests are highly predictive of life success or a lack thereof. That cannot be argued.

I'm not debating. I am informing. You cant measure anyones IQ. You have no clue what you are looking for. You have no way to measure all the variables or combinations of thought required to come to a conclusion. Its like claiming a person can travel to edge of the milky way galaxy. The technology simply doesnt exist to keep a human alive and it doesnt exist to measure a persons intelligence..

Whatever. As I said it does not matter. I.Q. tests are the most predictive variable in determining academic and financial success. That is regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity. That point cannot be argued.

Actually it can be argued which I am doing right now. If they were so predictive scientists wouldnt be saying that an IQ test cant measure ones intelligence and schools would be using them as a requirement.

Schools arent there to tell you how stupid or smart you are. Their job is to teach you stuff. Your post is dumb.

So are you.

Whoa, you were dumb enough to do it twice in a row? How embarrassing.

 

[Asclepias]

IQ shouldnt be a dirty word. IQ should be ranked right up there with unicorns since no one is smart enough to devise a test that accurately measures how intelligent someone is. Intelligence is the ability to learn. Since there is no way to quantify the ability of something you dont understand its just a buzz word or a dog whistle.

The strongest correlation between academic success and financial success in life is I.Q. Not race, not gender, not any environmental factors. It is I..Q. I repeat race is not a factor. In other words, if you are an intelligent black man (I.Q. 115 or above) your odds of being academically and financially successful are a virtual certainty, and are statistically no different than whites.

You can debate all day long about what I.Q. tests measure. The fact is, it does not matter. I.Q. tests are highly predictive of life success or a lack thereof. That cannot be argued.

I'm not debating. I am informing. You cant measure anyones IQ. You have no clue what you are looking for. You have no way to measure all the variables or combinations of thought required to come to a conclusion. Its like claiming a person can travel to edge of the milky way galaxy. The technology simply doesnt exist to keep a human alive and it doesnt exist to measure a persons intelligence..

Whatever. As I said it does not matter. I.Q. tests are the most predictive variable in determining academic and financial success. That is regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity. That point cannot be argued.

Actually it can be argued which I am doing right now. If they were so predictive scientists wouldnt be saying that an IQ test cant measure ones intelligence and schools would be using them as a requirement.

Schools arent there to tell you how stupid or smart you are. Their job is to teach you stuff. Your post is dumb.

Ironic is the word that comes to mind. Thanks for agreeing with me that higher education facilities dont use an IQ test like Welfarequeen claimed was the best predictor of academic success.

 

[Asclepias]

Stupid generalizations like yours are why so many discussions go nowhere.

AAAAAAND you STILL have no logical argument to refute what i said. Let me know if you think of something.

It makes me sad that you need this explained to you. Sweeping generalizations ARE illogical.

Its a generalization. What made you think it applied to every single person? You arent very bright, which becomes more and more evident with every useless post you make.

You fit the last sentence perfectly.

Piggy backing on my dig only shows that you have no creativity. You should strive to be better.

No one needs any creativity to prove you are an idiot. This isnt a art contest.

 

[Unkotare]

I knew it would go right over your head.

As usual, you have no argument. Let me know if you come up with something.

Stupid generalizations like yours are why so many discussions go nowhere.

AAAAAAND you STILL have no logical argument to refute what i said. Let me know if you think of something.

It makes me sad that you need this explained to you. Sweeping generalizations ARE illogical.

Its a generalization. What made you think it applied to every single person? ...

Holy crap, are you kidding? That’s WHY generalizations are illogical, dumbass.

 

[Unkotare]

.......
Black people didnt [sic] build this country. .....

A great many peoples built and continue to build this country. If you are really this ignorant about my country, stop talking about it until you get some education.

 

[abu afak]

Damn, youre dumb. It was 14 million, moron, and i challenge anyone to take 14 mil and turn it into billions. Trust me, youll fail. Very few people can do what Trump did.

Fact Check: How much help did Trump’s father give his son?

Your posts have been pretty decent, but this is riDICKulous.
Have you not heard about the intensive NYTimes investigation?
A good part of what Trump-org has done/Is still doing is transferring his father's money to Trump through various Crooked manipulations.
ie

Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes
as He Reaped Riches From His Father

The president has long sold himself as a self-made billionaire, but a Times investigation found that he received at least $413 million in today’s dollars from his father’s real estate empire, much of it through tax dodges in the 1990s.
By DAVID BARSTOW, SUSANNE CRAIG and RUSS BUETTNER
Oct. 2, 2018
Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father

President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

Mr. Trump won the presidency proclaiming himself a self-made billionaire, and he has long insisted that his father, the legendary New York City builder Fred C. Trump, provided almost no financial help.

But The Times’s investigation, based on a vast trove of confidential tax returns and financial records, reveals that Mr. Trump received the equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire, starting when he was a toddler and continuing to this day.

Much of this money came to Mr. Trump because he helped his parents dodge taxes. He and his siblings set up a sham corporation to disguise millions of dollars in gifts from their parents, records and interviews show. Records indicate that Mr. Trump helped his father take improper tax deductions worth millions more. He also helped formulate a strategy to undervalue his parents’ real estate holdings by hundreds of millions of dollars on tax returns, sharply reducing the tax bill when those properties were transferred to him and his siblings.

These maneuvers met with little resistance from the Internal Revenue Service, The Times found. The president’s parents, Fred and Mary Trump, transferred well over $1 billion in wealth to their children, which could have produced a tax bill of at least $550 million under the 55% tax rate then imposed on gifts and inheritances.

The Trumps paid a total of $52.2 million, or about 5%, tax records show.
[......]​

And there's NO Showing the Idiot Trumpov is worth more than that today.

I have much to say as well about the Race/IQ gap (as the only one here who has studied and understands it, and who has Stuffed a few of few in the past), but had to respond to this hideous blunder before I finished reading the ignorant thread
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[Disir]

Attacking these tests is merely shooting the messenger. The problem is not the result of the tests (which have been amply confirmed). Any problems relate to mis-applying the evidence, or not applying it at all.
There are relatively small statistical differences between groups. We can look at that frankly or not, but the facts are there.

So............ they are admissible in a court? If not, why not?

I think only extremely low IQ is admissible

Can the tests referred to in the op be used to determine that?

Yes.

No.

 

[IM2]

The enslaved were first brought over here because they were known for their ability to grow cash crops white people couldnt figure out how to grow and also their Blacksmithing skills.

Oh really, then why didnt they have slaves doing that work instead of low skilled manual labor? I can show you elaborate armor made by European smiths, meanwhile Africans couldnt blacksmith for shit, and they sure as fuck didnt know anything about picking cotton. Youre a fool and your fake history is amusing.

Here is a prime example of white revisionist history.

 

[Muhammed]

Attacking these tests is merely shooting the messenger. The problem is not the result of the tests (which have been amply confirmed). Any problems relate to mis-applying the evidence, or not applying it at all.
There are relatively small statistical differences between groups. We can look at that frankly or not, but the facts are there.

So............ they are admissible in a court? If not, why not?

I think only extremely low IQ is admissible

Can the tests referred to in the op be used to determine that?

Yes.

No.

Bullshit. Low IQ scores are routinely admitted as mitigating evidence in death penalty cases.

 

[Disir]

So............ they are admissible in a court? If not, why not?

I think only extremely low IQ is admissible

Can the tests referred to in the op be used to determine that?

Yes.

No.

Bullshit. Low IQ scores are routinely admitted as mitigating evidence in death penalty cases.

Yes. From a psychological evaluation conducted by a psychologist. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn't have to be just a low IQ score.
Not from the tests referred to in the OP.

 

[Muhammed]

I think only extremely low IQ is admissible

Can the tests referred to in the op be used to determine that?

Yes.

No.

Bullshit. Low IQ scores are routinely admitted as mitigating evidence in death penalty cases.

Yes. From a psychological evaluation conducted by a psychologist. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn't have to be just a low IQ score.
Not from the tests referred to in the OP.

The OP didn't specify, jackass.

 

[Disir]

Can the tests referred to in the op be used to determine that?

Yes.

No.

Bullshit. Low IQ scores are routinely admitted as mitigating evidence in death penalty cases.

Yes. From a psychological evaluation conducted by a psychologist. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn't have to be just a low IQ score.
Not from the tests referred to in the OP.

The OP didn't specify, jackass.

What part confused you?

What if "failing" schools are not failing because of the race of the majority of students, but because of the average IQ of the students? Looking at it that way, the focus would be to identify the students in those schools with the greatest potential, and see that they have the opportunity to succeed according the their abilities. As for the remainkng students, the curriculum could be tailored to their strengths and weaknesses, without fretting about whether their average test scores fall below state-wide averages. Who cares?

 

[there4eyeM]

It is somewhat useless to continue these arguments. I.Q. tests have been verified quite thoroughly. Those arguing otherwise have some confused agenda. That collected data are just that, to be used wisely or not.

 

[Disir]

It is somewhat useless to continue these arguments. I.Q. tests have been verified quite thoroughly. Those arguing otherwise have some confused agenda. That collected data are just that, to be used wisely or not.

From your own link.

For them, the problem with the discrepancy model is that it is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the Wechsler scores, which were never intended to be used to as a single, summed number. So the criticism of the discrepancy model is correct, says Alan Kaufman, but it misses the real issue: whether or not intelligence tests, when properly administered and interpreted, can be useful.

"The movement that's trying to get rid of IQ tests is failing to understand that these tests are valid in the hands of a competent practitioner who can go beyond the numbers--or at least use the numbers to understand what makes the person tick, to integrate those test scores with the kind of child you're looking at, and to blend those behaviors with the scores to make useful recommendations," he says.

Intelligence tests help psychologists make recommendations about the kind of teaching that will benefit a child most, according to Ron Palomares, PhD, assistant executive director in the APA Practice Directorate's Office of Policy and Advocacy in the Schools. Psychologists are taught to assess patterns of performance on intelligence tests and to obtain clinical observations of the child during the testing session. That, he says, removes the focus from a single IQ score and allows for an assessment of the child as a whole, which can then be used to develop individualized teaching strategies.

It's called a psychological evaluation. And it's updated every one to two years.
That isn't happening in schools unless there is a request for testing for special education testing. State wide tests don't do that. You are looking anywhere from 1-2 thousand dollars a pop.

 

[Muhammed]

It is somewhat useless to continue these arguments. I.Q. tests have been verified quite thoroughly. Those arguing otherwise have some confused agenda.

Over the years I've noticed that they tend to not be among the brightest bulbs on the tree.

 

[Paul Essien]

In a nutshell, white kids are generally raised better, with both parents around (neither of whom are on welfare) and because of this our neighborhoods are better.

What do you mean by "white people are raised better" ?

What do you mean by "white neighborhoods are better" ?

We also value education far more than black people.

What do you mean by "whites value education" They go to school more ? They study harder ? Be more to the point and not so vague.

As a result, we outperform you in every single category you could possibly list.

OK

You already know the answers to those questions. EVERYONE knows the answer to those questions. Quit wasting our time with nonsense.

No I don't know what you say "white kids are generally raised better" The hell does that mean ?

But then you say this "our neighborhoods are better"

Well you have a system of racism-white supremacy to make sure you neigbourhoods are richer not better. When cities, suburbs or towns are overwhelmingly white, this is to do with discrimination and unequal access for black people .

Restrictive covenants, redlining by banks, racially-restrictive homesteading rights, and even policies prohibiting black people from living in an area altogether — four things that whites have never experienced anywhere in this nation (as whites). Whites easily qualified for the Homestead Act, the G.I. Bill and FHA loans – because they were White and black people

There are 3 type of white racists

1. White bigots – They hate blacks. Even most whites would regard as racist. The Klan, David Duke.
2. White implicit racists – They do not hate blacks. But they still look down on blacks and stereotype them. They see them as poor, “ghetto”, screwed up, as less moral and intelligent.
3. Whites with integrity – Whites are trying to unlearn their racism and do the right thing. Examples: John Brown, Tim Wise

I would say

• 10% are white bigots,
• 85% are white implicit racists and
• 5% are whites with integrity.

You are just implicit with racism

 

[22lcidw]

In a nutshell, white kids are generally raised better, with both parents around (neither of whom are on welfare) and because of this our neighborhoods are better.

What do you mean by "white people are raised better" ?

What do you mean by "white neighborhoods are better" ?

We also value education far more than black people.

What do you mean by "whites value education" They go to school more ? They study harder ? Be more to the point and not so vague.

As a result, we outperform you in every single category you could possibly list.

OK

You already know the answers to those questions. EVERYONE knows the answer to those questions. Quit wasting our time with nonsense.

No I don't know what you say "white kids are generally raised better" The hell does that mean ?

But then you say this "our neighborhoods are better"

Well you have a system of racism-white supremacy to make sure you neigbourhoods are richer not better. When cities, suburbs or towns are overwhelmingly white, this is to do with discrimination and unequal access for black people .

Restrictive covenants, redlining by banks, racially-restrictive homesteading rights, and even policies prohibiting black people from living in an area altogether — four things that whites have never experienced anywhere in this nation (as whites). Whites easily qualified for the Homestead Act, the G.I. Bill and FHA loans – because they were White and black people

There are 3 type of white racists

1. White bigots – They hate blacks. Even most whites would regard as racist. The Klan, David Duke.
2. White implicit racists – They do not hate blacks. But they still look down on blacks and stereotype them. They see them as poor, “ghetto”, screwed up, as less moral and intelligent.
3. Whites with integrity – Whites are trying to unlearn their racism and do the right thing. Examples: John Brown, Tim Wise

I would say

• 10% are white bigots,
• 85% are white implicit racists and
• 5% are whites with integrity.

You are just implicit with racism

Dodd/Frank kind of screwed over many who paid their bills and could not get out of the agenda. Notice they both got out of Dodge soon after the collapse.

 

[Disir]

It ain't that hard, folks. There is no single test that is used currently in schools that can determine IQ because it doesn't come from just one number. Efforts to make that more cost effective have failed. They don't tell anyone anything.

You wouldn't have to worry about schools failing if you checked your state's response to No Child Left Behind/ Every Student Succeeds Act and the agenda behind them..........which is in many states faux privatization of schools.

The children that have already been identified as having cognitive limitations take alternative tests under ESSA. You should be able to identify the number of individuals in a school system through data available through your state.

Standardized testing only measures one type of intelligence for that type of test and it doesn't give you an IQ. That is the argument. You would need a psychological evaluation conducted by a psychologist with recommendations and you would have to genuinely give a damn about each individual student rather than more bang for your buck.

If you are unwilling to obtain that information legitimately then I question your motives and your agenda.

 

[Paul Essien]

Bullshit. Low IQ scores are routinely admitted as mitigating evidence in death penalty cases.

So how do you explain the fact that The Unabomber was a certified genius and serial killer Ted Bundy had 140 IQ which is genius level.?