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I WANT TO GO BACK WHERE, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT CREATE JOBS IN THE US, YOU TAX THE FUK OUT OF THEM, LIKE THE DEMS PROPOSED ALREADY!!!
And again, hard head... they leave the country and open their HQ in Belize! You can't tax companies in Belize, only Belize can... and guess what? They LIKE the companies bringing their wealth to Belize, they don't wanna tax them!
GOT IT, AS USUAL YOU'LL IGNORE EVERYTHING THAT DEBUNKED YOUR BS PREMISES AND THEN SAY IT'S "ESSENTIALLY" WHAT YOU SAID
FUKK IT IS. YOU SAID THEY COULD MOVE THEIR CORPS AND JOBS OUT OF THE US!!!
No, I didn't ignore anything. We agreed on something and Andylusion disagrees with me. As disheartening as that is to me, I still believe we need to implement heavy tariffs on goods from China and Mexico in order to bring back the manufacturing sector in the US. I don't care that it didn't work in the 20s and 30s, we weren't a consumerist nation like we are today. We depended much more on our exports which are virtually non-existent today.
I also think we need to impose these tariffs on goods produced by US companies abroad, exploiting cheap labor and then exploiting our trade agreements to "import" their goods back into this country where they make a huge profit at the expense of American workers. That shit needs to stop.
It was not ME who said they could move their jobs. I was opposed to NAFTA and WTO. Still... We live in a free and open society where companies have the right to move wherever the hell they want to move... we can't keep them here in the US like Chairman Mao. You want to build a Great Wall to keep them from leaving?
GOT IT, AS USUAL YOU'LL IGNORE EVERYTHING THAT DEBUNKED YOUR BS PREMISES AND THEN SAY IT'S "ESSENTIALLY" WHAT YOU SAID
FUKK IT IS. YOU SAID THEY COULD MOVE THEIR CORPS AND JOBS OUT OF THE US!!!
No, I didn't ignore anything. We agreed on something and Andylusion disagrees with me. As disheartening as that is to me, I still believe we need to implement heavy tariffs on goods from China and Mexico in order to bring back the manufacturing sector in the US. I don't care that it didn't work in the 20s and 30s, we weren't a consumerist nation like we are today. We depended much more on our exports which are virtually non-existent today.
I also think we need to impose these tariffs on goods produced by US companies abroad, exploiting cheap labor and then exploiting our trade agreements to "import" their goods back into this country where they make a huge profit at the expense of American workers. That shit needs to stop.
It was not ME who said they could move their jobs. I was opposed to NAFTA and WTO. Still... We live in a free and open society where companies have the right to move wherever the hell they want to move... we can't keep them here in the US like Chairman Mao. You want to build a Great Wall to keep them from leaving?
Last year was a record year in manufacturing. We don't need to bring it back, it's already here.
The problem is, manufacturing jobs are gone, and that's because wages are high enough, that automation is practical. And as the wages continue to climb, replacement with automation because more and more cost effective.
No amount of tariffs on imports is going to fix that. If you put in place a law to prevent Apple from importing Iphones, that would never result in hundreds of people employed to make Iphones for middle class wages. It would result in 5 people being hired, to hit the start button on the automation line that builds the phones.
The only way that thousands or millions of people are going to have manufacturing jobs, and the only way they are going to make middle class incomes do that..... is if we lower the cost of labor, and the standard of living drops to the level of the 1950s.
Since neither are going to happen, no amount of tariffs is going to change anything. You are asking for the impossible.
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2014 was a record year in exports. I'm not sure what you are talking about.
And honestly, again if you put in place tariffs, you are going to kill our exports. That's a self defeating idea.
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
How do you make Corp A which which has $500 million in the bank in the us, brings in $500 million from offshore,just take the $500 million from the bank and pay div or buy back stock?
I WANT TO GO BACK WHERE, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT CREATE JOBS IN THE US, YOU TAX THE FUK OUT OF THEM, LIKE THE DEMS PROPOSED ALREADY!!!
And again, hard head... they leave the country and open their HQ in Belize! You can't tax companies in Belize, only Belize can... and guess what? They LIKE the companies bringing their wealth to Belize, they don't wanna tax them!
REALLY? SERIOUSLY BUBS, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TAXES WORK? REALLY?
I DON'T GIVE A FUK WHERE THEY ARE H/Q, we can and do tax PROFITS from US, WE CAN CHANGE TAX LAWS TO GET RID OF CORP (APPLE, GOOGLE, MICRSFT, ETC) LOOPHOLES WHO CREATE "MONEY" IN IRELAND, LOL
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
I agree on corporate tax. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and that's ridiculous. But this isn't really about corporate tax on profits as much as individual wealth held abroad. There is about $10 trillion in US wealth abroad. Most of it just sitting there collecting a nice dividend and being used by foreign governments. We need to find an incentive to bring that money home and create new jobs with it. A 10-year tax moratorium is a good place to start.
How do you enforce it? By reporting and accounting, like we enforce everything else. Easy.
And remember, we aren't talking about corporate taxation. When wealth is brought back into the US from abroad, the individual has to pay income tax on that money under current tax law. So 39% of his money is gone before he even gets to see it. He can THEN invest that in his business, but the business will be taxed as well, per usual. So I am suggesting we eliminate that 39% income tax IF he is going to create new jobs with it. You do it for 10 years so that companies can plan and amortize over that time span. Not all companies need or want to expand today. But given such a huge incentive, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't create some new job growth.
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
I agree on corporate tax. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and that's ridiculous. But this isn't really about corporate tax on profits as much as individual wealth held abroad. There is about $10 trillion in US wealth abroad. Most of it just sitting there collecting a nice dividend and being used by foreign governments. We need to find an incentive to bring that money home and create new jobs with it. A 10-year tax moratorium is a good place to start.
How do you enforce it? By reporting and accounting, like we enforce everything else. Easy.
And remember, we aren't talking about corporate taxation. When wealth is brought back into the US from abroad, the individual has to pay income tax on that money under current tax law. So 39% of his money is gone before he even gets to see it. He can THEN invest that in his business, but the business will be taxed as well, per usual. So I am suggesting we eliminate that 39% income tax IF he is going to create new jobs with it. You do it for 10 years so that companies can plan and amortize over that time span. Not all companies need or want to expand today. But given such a huge incentive, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't create some new job growth.
How do you make Corp A which which has $500 million in the bank in the us, brings in $500 million from offshore,just take the $500 million from the bank and pay div or buy back stock?
Because the $500 million they bring back from offshore has to be used to create new jobs... not operate the company or pay the utility bills.
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
I agree on corporate tax. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and that's ridiculous. But this isn't really about corporate tax on profits as much as individual wealth held abroad. There is about $10 trillion in US wealth abroad. Most of it just sitting there collecting a nice dividend and being used by foreign governments. We need to find an incentive to bring that money home and create new jobs with it. A 10-year tax moratorium is a good place to start.
How do you enforce it? By reporting and accounting, like we enforce everything else. Easy.
And remember, we aren't talking about corporate taxation. When wealth is brought back into the US from abroad, the individual has to pay income tax on that money under current tax law. So 39% of his money is gone before he even gets to see it. He can THEN invest that in his business, but the business will be taxed as well, per usual. So I am suggesting we eliminate that 39% income tax IF he is going to create new jobs with it. You do it for 10 years so that companies can plan and amortize over that time span. Not all companies need or want to expand today. But given such a huge incentive, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't create some new job growth.
So in my Amazon example, Amazon bought out Zappos. Which created zero jobs at a Amazon. Tons of profit though.
Now as we both know, the economy is not a fixed game. You can invest in a business, and have it fail.
Zappos may have failed after being bought out. Instead they grew.
You don't know in the future what will create jobs and what will not.
My company recently invest hundreds of thousands into a new product. So far, it has created zero jobs. In fact, we've cut some people. It's hard to say whether this will create jobs in the future, or not.
Based on this... like I said... how will you enforce this tax-free investment creates jobs? What company is going to risk an IRS audit, to bring back money that 'must create jobs', when they don't know for sure if any investment will?
Accounting? Reporting? Those can be manipulated, and you know it. The future success or failure of an investment, and be determined until it happens.
Additionally, some investment is done to prevent the loss of jobs. A factory that is being out done by another that has more advanced methods of production, may need million of dollars in investment. The options are, no investment and factory closes, or tons of investment and the factory remains open. That investment may even make fewer workers necessary.
So here, investment may result in the loss of jobs, for the benefit of not losing EVERY job. How would your tax plan deal with that?
I WANT TO GO BACK WHERE, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT CREATE JOBS IN THE US, YOU TAX THE FUK OUT OF THEM, LIKE THE DEMS PROPOSED ALREADY!!!
And again, hard head... they leave the country and open their HQ in Belize! You can't tax companies in Belize, only Belize can... and guess what? They LIKE the companies bringing their wealth to Belize, they don't wanna tax them!
REALLY? SERIOUSLY BUBS, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TAXES WORK? REALLY?
I DON'T GIVE A FUK WHERE THEY ARE H/Q, we can and do tax PROFITS from US, WE CAN CHANGE TAX LAWS TO GET RID OF CORP (APPLE, GOOGLE, MICRSFT, ETC) LOOPHOLES WHO CREATE "MONEY" IN IRELAND, LOL
No, you don't seem to understand jurisdiction. The IRS has no authority over a company located in Ireland. NONE. We can't tax them. Doesn't matter that they were once a US company. We can't tax their profits, they don't have to tell us about their profits, nothing.
No amount of tariffs on imports is going to fix that. If you put in place a law to prevent Apple from importing Iphones, that would never result in hundreds of people employed to make Iphones for middle class wages. It would result in 5 people being hired, to hit the start button on the automation line that builds the phones.
I WANT TO GO BACK WHERE, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT CREATE JOBS IN THE US, YOU TAX THE FUK OUT OF THEM, LIKE THE DEMS PROPOSED ALREADY!!!
And again, hard head... they leave the country and open their HQ in Belize! You can't tax companies in Belize, only Belize can... and guess what? They LIKE the companies bringing their wealth to Belize, they don't wanna tax them!
REALLY? SERIOUSLY BUBS, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TAXES WORK? REALLY?
I DON'T GIVE A FUK WHERE THEY ARE H/Q, we can and do tax PROFITS from US, WE CAN CHANGE TAX LAWS TO GET RID OF CORP (APPLE, GOOGLE, MICRSFT, ETC) LOOPHOLES WHO CREATE "MONEY" IN IRELAND, LOL
No, you don't seem to understand jurisdiction. The IRS has no authority over a company located in Ireland. NONE. We can't tax them. Doesn't matter that they were once a US company. We can't tax their profits, they don't have to tell us about their profits, nothing.
lol, Bubba, GROW A FUKKN BRAIN
The United States asserts jurisdiction to tax foreign corporations only if they are engaged in business in the United States or receive income from sources within the United States. Foreign corporations that are engaged in a trade or business in the United States are subject to net-basis income tax under §882 on any of their income that is “effectively connected” with that business.
U.S. Income Taxation of Foreign Corporations (Portfolio 908)
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
I agree on corporate tax. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and that's ridiculous. But this isn't really about corporate tax on profits as much as individual wealth held abroad. There is about $10 trillion in US wealth abroad. Most of it just sitting there collecting a nice dividend and being used by foreign governments. We need to find an incentive to bring that money home and create new jobs with it. A 10-year tax moratorium is a good place to start.
How do you enforce it? By reporting and accounting, like we enforce everything else. Easy.
And remember, we aren't talking about corporate taxation. When wealth is brought back into the US from abroad, the individual has to pay income tax on that money under current tax law. So 39% of his money is gone before he even gets to see it. He can THEN invest that in his business, but the business will be taxed as well, per usual. So I am suggesting we eliminate that 39% income tax IF he is going to create new jobs with it. You do it for 10 years so that companies can plan and amortize over that time span. Not all companies need or want to expand today. But given such a huge incentive, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't create some new job growth.
Weird YOU don't get how MARGINAL tax rates work
"Think" that money offshore was EARNED? Only EARNED income is taxed at 39% AND only amounts ABOVE about $450,000 a year
EFFECTIVE tax rates are near 23% today on the top 1%, EVEN LOWER on those "job creators' above that 1%er mark!
EFFECTIVE Corp taxes are 12%, NOT the MARGINAL RATE THAT OBAMA PROPOSED TO LOWER AND THE GOP HAS REFUSED!
No amount of tariffs on imports is going to fix that. If you put in place a law to prevent Apple from importing Iphones, that would never result in hundreds of people employed to make Iphones for middle class wages. It would result in 5 people being hired, to hit the start button on the automation line that builds the phones.
I don't want to prevent Apple from importing iPhones. I want them to have the iPhones made in America by American workers. The tariff makes it more expensive for them to do what they are doing, and at the same time, we are offering incentives to get them to do something else. They're smart cookies... they'll do what is most profitable. It may be that it's still more profitable for them to have them made overseas and just pay the tariffs... that means the iPhone will be more expensive. Perhaps that leads the way for some entrepreneurial American to invent a phone that is comparable and produce it here with American workers.
The automation thing is a red herring. We're going to have automation and advancement in technology no matter what we do. It's an inevitable thing which doesn't care one way or another about our policies. Does it eliminate jobs? Sure it does.. it's been doing it for 70k years.
I WANT TO GO BACK WHERE, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT CREATE JOBS IN THE US, YOU TAX THE FUK OUT OF THEM, LIKE THE DEMS PROPOSED ALREADY!!!
And again, hard head... they leave the country and open their HQ in Belize! You can't tax companies in Belize, only Belize can... and guess what? They LIKE the companies bringing their wealth to Belize, they don't wanna tax them!
REALLY? SERIOUSLY BUBS, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW TAXES WORK? REALLY?
I DON'T GIVE A FUK WHERE THEY ARE H/Q, we can and do tax PROFITS from US, WE CAN CHANGE TAX LAWS TO GET RID OF CORP (APPLE, GOOGLE, MICRSFT, ETC) LOOPHOLES WHO CREATE "MONEY" IN IRELAND, LOL
No, you don't seem to understand jurisdiction. The IRS has no authority over a company located in Ireland. NONE. We can't tax them. Doesn't matter that they were once a US company. We can't tax their profits, they don't have to tell us about their profits, nothing.
lol, Bubba, GROW A FUKKN BRAIN
The United States asserts jurisdiction to tax foreign corporations only if they are engaged in business in the United States or receive income from sources within the United States. Foreign corporations that are engaged in a trade or business in the United States are subject to net-basis income tax under §882 on any of their income that is “effectively connected” with that business.
U.S. Income Taxation of Foreign Corporations (Portfolio 908)
Right... which has diddly-squat to do with what I said.
How do you make Corp A which which has $500 million in the bank in the us, brings in $500 million from offshore,just take the $500 million from the bank and pay div or buy back stock?
Because the $500 million they bring back from offshore has to be used to create new jobs... not operate the company or pay the utility bills.
Cool, HOW? Please be specific, something that doesn't sound like Moa's plan Bubs??? You know something that we could LEGALLY DO? Oops
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
I agree on corporate tax. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and that's ridiculous. But this isn't really about corporate tax on profits as much as individual wealth held abroad. There is about $10 trillion in US wealth abroad. Most of it just sitting there collecting a nice dividend and being used by foreign governments. We need to find an incentive to bring that money home and create new jobs with it. A 10-year tax moratorium is a good place to start.
How do you enforce it? By reporting and accounting, like we enforce everything else. Easy.
And remember, we aren't talking about corporate taxation. When wealth is brought back into the US from abroad, the individual has to pay income tax on that money under current tax law. So 39% of his money is gone before he even gets to see it. He can THEN invest that in his business, but the business will be taxed as well, per usual. So I am suggesting we eliminate that 39% income tax IF he is going to create new jobs with it. You do it for 10 years so that companies can plan and amortize over that time span. Not all companies need or want to expand today. But given such a huge incentive, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't create some new job growth.
Weird YOU don't get how MARGINAL tax rates work
"Think" that money offshore was EARNED? Only EARNED income is taxed at 39% AND only amounts ABOVE about $450,000 a year
EFFECTIVE tax rates are near 23% today on the top 1%, EVEN LOWER on those "job creators' above that 1%er mark!
EFFECTIVE Corp taxes are 12%, NOT the MARGINAL RATE THAT OBAMA PROPOSED TO LOWER AND THE GOP HAS REFUSED!
I know how tax rates work, that's why I'm cleaning your clock here. IF I bring $1 million to the US from my foreign bank, the IRS claims $390k before I ever see my money. As long as my money stays there and doesn't come here, the IRS doesn't and can't tax it. It's not counted as "earned income" because it hasn't been claimed or received as income in the US. But when I bring it here, it becomes "earned income" and taxed accordingly.
I'm saying we should suspend that taxation for 10 years on money brought in to create jobs.
Yeah, I'm skeptical as well. It's a nice thought, and I believe there shouldn't be a corporate tax at all.
But how would you even be able to enforce such a system?
I agree on corporate tax. We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and that's ridiculous. But this isn't really about corporate tax on profits as much as individual wealth held abroad. There is about $10 trillion in US wealth abroad. Most of it just sitting there collecting a nice dividend and being used by foreign governments. We need to find an incentive to bring that money home and create new jobs with it. A 10-year tax moratorium is a good place to start.
How do you enforce it? By reporting and accounting, like we enforce everything else. Easy.
And remember, we aren't talking about corporate taxation. When wealth is brought back into the US from abroad, the individual has to pay income tax on that money under current tax law. So 39% of his money is gone before he even gets to see it. He can THEN invest that in his business, but the business will be taxed as well, per usual. So I am suggesting we eliminate that 39% income tax IF he is going to create new jobs with it. You do it for 10 years so that companies can plan and amortize over that time span. Not all companies need or want to expand today. But given such a huge incentive, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't create some new job growth.
Weird YOU don't get how MARGINAL tax rates work
"Think" that money offshore was EARNED? Only EARNED income is taxed at 39% AND only amounts ABOVE about $450,000 a year
EFFECTIVE tax rates are near 23% today on the top 1%, EVEN LOWER on those "job creators' above that 1%er mark!
EFFECTIVE Corp taxes are 12%, NOT the MARGINAL RATE THAT OBAMA PROPOSED TO LOWER AND THE GOP HAS REFUSED!
I know how tax rates work, that's why I'm cleaning your clock here. IF I bring $1 million to the US from my foreign bank, the IRS claims $390k before I ever see my money. As long as my money stays there and doesn't come here, the IRS doesn't and can't tax it. It's not counted as "earned income" because it hasn't been claimed or received as income in the US. But when I bring it here, it becomes "earned income" and taxed accordingly.
I'm saying we should suspend that taxation for 10 years on money brought in to create jobs.
How do you make Corp A which which has $500 million in the bank in the us, brings in $500 million from offshore,just take the $500 million from the bank and pay div or buy back stock?
Because the $500 million they bring back from offshore has to be used to create new jobs... not operate the company or pay the utility bills.
Cool, HOW? Please be specific, something that doesn't sound like Moa's plan Bubs??? You know something that we could LEGALLY DO? Oops
Well like I said to Andy, it's a matter of reporting and accounting.
Okay... So I just created a new company and hired 100 people. Their total salary and benefits for 2016 come to $5 million. I repatriated $5 million from my account in Belize. This money is not taxed because I can show where I paid 100 new employees $5 million.
