Simple question on electric vehicles, where does the electricity to recharge them come from?

[Redfish]

We aren't going to be building any new hydro plants.

No one has the desire or the will to have giant, expensive dams constructed in this country anymore.

We need to go all in on small modular thorium reactors

yep, a new dam might drown some precious lizards and libs cannot allow that.

 

[Blues Man]

yep, a new dam might drown some precious lizards and libs cannot allow that.

Not to mention all the land the government will have to confiscate from citizens

 

[Redfish]

No, but better ways to transport should be the main focus from better rail system that uses different ways to operate to local production for mAjor Cities.

electric trains????????????????? same question, where does the electricity come from? Sorry but there is no replacement in the near future for diesel 18 wheelers.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Why is it a stupid question? If the electricity used to charge your vehicle is coming from a coal fired power plant it isn't a significant improvement over burning gasoline. I'm sure there's some efficiencies that make it less "bad".

In some cases, like mine, I charge mostly on solar which is a much greener alternative overall.

Since that is such an easy solution, I would wonder why Californians are being asked not to charge their cars.

 

[Blues Man]

electric trains????????????????? same question, where does the electricity come from? Sorry but there is no replacement in the near future for diesel 18 wheelers.

What people are not understanding is that the larger the electric vehicle the less practical it is.

All EVs are at the production level higher emission than any ICE vehicle.

Now there is a tipping point where an EV becomes cleaner emission-wise than an ICE and the smaller the car the faster that tipping point is reached.

For example a car like the Leaf will reach that tipping point in about 15 K miles

But a electric Chevy Tahoe won't reach that tipping point until nearly 100 K miles

 

[Redfish]

What people are not understanding is that the larger the electric vehicle the less practical it is.

All EVs are at the production level higher emission than any ICE vehicle.

Now there is a tipping point where an EV becomes cleaner emission-wise than an ICE and the smaller the car the faster that tipping point is reached.

For example a car like the Leaf will reach that tipping point in about 15 K miles

But a electric Chevy Tahoe won't reach that tipping point until nearly 100 K miles

but you are leaving out that the Tahoe will need a new battery before it gets 100K miles, so it will never reach the "tipping point" financially.

 

[Blues Man]

but you are leaving out that the Tahoe will need a new battery before it gets 100K miles, so it will never reach the "tipping point" financially.

Which is why large EVs are impractical.

 

[Redfish]

Now some idiots in the Canadian government are buying electric airplanes. They have lost their minds.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Humans are polluting our planet, but the left will not attack pollution,

You know this is not correct. It has been the lefties who have consistently fought pollution. The GOP used to actually care as well when Nixon was around but they quickly realized there's more money without regulation.

instead they try to create an unsubstantiated connection between pollution and climate.

This is a gross mischaracterization.

Why? because leftists think we should all be their sheep since only they are smart enough to tell everyone else how to live.

Just because you don't understand the science doesn't make it any less real.

That is the problem we are faced with, energy can be dealt with and the free market will solve those problems over time.

Speaking as someone who has been involved in alternative energy sources for transportation (my second postdoc) I can say that the free market is good but not fast enough. Now that denialists have kept us from addressing the topic for decades the choices are going to get harder and the solutions won't be as easy a fix as a simple "market fix".

Remember leaded gasoline? YOu may be too young but for many of us who lived through that change I can tell you the free market wasn't moving fast enough. Government mandates came in and it worked fine. We all survived. Same with acid rain. Remember that? Yeah, we fought it and won. We leveraged SOME free market stuff but we also required mandates from the government to ensure that the market didn't crush some people for doing the right thing.

All of this requires you have an appreciation for history and science. Something you clearly lack.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Which is why large EVs are impractical.

Are they now? I've been driving my EV for free for about the last 3 years. Gets 300 miles on a full charge. I charge on my solar so I don't even pay to charge the thing.

I'm curious what is impractical about this scenario? Is it impractical in your imagination because you don't know what you are talking about? Why not listen to those of us who are LIVING IT right now?

 

[Mr Natural]

Where does it come from? Try to answer truthfully if you can.

From the wall socket.

 

[Blues Man]

Are they now? I've been driving my EV for free for about the last 3 years. Gets 300 miles on a full charge. I charge on my solar so I don't even pay to charge the thing.

I'm curious what is impractical about this scenario? Is it impractical in your imagination because you don't know what you are talking about? Why not listen to those of us who are LIVING IT right now?

Read the entire post.

If you bought an EV for the environment you have to be aware that ALL EVs right off the line have a higher emission cost of production.

When that higher emission cost is surpassed by the cleaner operation of an EV depends almost solely on the size of the car and the way electricity is produced.

A compact EV like a Nissan Leaf or Mini Cooper will be a cleaner option than an ICE car of the same size at less than 15 K miles assuming the standard American power production breakdown

A full size electric SUV will have to be driven 100K miles before it is cleaner than an ICE SUV of the same size.

I have never been against EVs and have always said they have a place in the mix, especially for a daily driver. I have stated facts here about when an EV is actually cleaner than an ICE.

Maybe you ought to actually look into the reality of EVs

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Read the entire post.

If you bought an EV for the environment you have to be aware that ALL EVs right off the line have a higher emission cost of production.

Citation please.

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

I have never been against EVs and have always said they have a place in the mix, especially for a daily driver. I have stated facts here about when an EV is actually cleaner than an ICE.

Maybe you ought to actually look into the reality of EVs

Well, one thing I DO know is that while you are burning fossil fuels every second of every minute you drive your car....I am not.

Year after year after year after year. Plus I don't have the same amount of maintenance cost, no oil changes.

Honestly all this nit picking against EV's is a bit over the top. ESPECIALLY given how dangerous fossil fuels are to the environment, and how they are limited unlike solar.

 

[Blues Man]

Citation please.

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

Well, one thing I DO know is that while you are burning fossil fuels every second of every minute you drive your car....I am not.

Year after year after year after year. Plus I don't have the same amount of maintenance cost, no oil changes.

Honestly all this nit picking against EV's is a bit over the top. ESPECIALLY given how dangerous fossil fuels are to the environment, and how they are limited unlike solar.

How do you know what I drive?

Oh yeah you don't.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Since that is such an easy solution, I would wonder why Californians are being asked not to charge their cars.

The topic is complex and not easily explained to people who prefer simple answers. The California grid is often strained during peak loads but they are also rolling brown outs to keep powerlines from sparking wildfires in SoCal.

So it's not quite as simple as you might prefer. But it doesn't mean your simple version is in any way a reflection of reality.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

How do you know what I drive?

Oh yeah you don't.

So you can't answer any of the questions?

Good. Thought you were nothing worth paying attention to. Turns out I was right!

 

[Mac-7]

third question. how much does it cost to replace the battery when it wears out (usually in about 2 years)

The real cost should include the carbon emissions needed to make the battery

But we are pissing in the wind

Greenies are too closed minded to consider such things

 

[Blues Man]

Citation please.

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

Well, one thing I DO know is that while you are burning fossil fuels every second of every minute you drive your car....I am not.

Year after year after year after year. Plus I don't have the same amount of maintenance cost, no oil changes.

Honestly all this nit picking against EV's is a bit over the top. ESPECIALLY given how dangerous fossil fuels are to the environment, and how they are limited unlike solar.

When Do EVs Become Cleaner Than Gas-Powered Cars? | OilPrice.com

The environmental footprint of electric vehicles is quite large at first, requiring tens of thousands of miles before actually becoming cleaner than traditional gas-powered cars

oilprice.com

When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

DETROIT — You glide silently out of the Tesla showroom in your sleek new electric Model 3, satisfied you’re looking great and doing your bit for the planet.

financialpost.com

How Many Miles Before An Electric Car Is Greener Than A Gas Car - SlashGear

One of the most common arguments against EVs is that they don't start their lives as green options. How long does it take them to beat gas cars?

www.slashgear.com

None of this should be a surprise.

The bigger the EV, the bigger the battery the higher carbon cost of production, the longer it takes before the production cost is offset by the cleaner operation.

 

[Blues Man]

So you can't answer any of the questions?

Good. Thought you were nothing worth paying attention to. Turns out I was right!

See my subsequent post

 

[Blues Man]

The real cost should include the carbon emissions needed to make the battery

But we are pissing in the wind

Greenies are too closed minded to consider such things

Exactly.

It's the dirty little secret EV fanatics don't like to talk about.

The fact is that the US has almost no presence in the rare earth mining industry so are going to once again be dependent on foreign imports for batteries.

The bigger the EV, the bigger the battery the higher the carbon cost of production the longer it takes for the EV to be cleaner than an ICE.

So in reality small and even mid-size EVs are the best choices for the environment. Full size SUVs, pickup trucks, Semi trucks not so much.

And let's not forget that EVs weigh considerably more so the extra wear and tear on roads has to be addressed