So 4 Times the Government Had the Opportunity to Stop the Parkland Shooter

[iceberg]

The 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act eliminated the National Registry ...

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people don't understand the laws we do have.

and this is why we can't have nice laws.

Sounds like another Ronald Reagan law, that kept the CIA from telling the FBI about the 9-11 hijackers.

sounds like you don't know the laws and what has a chance of being done so you're going for a kill shot that will only stop any talks at all.

 

[iceberg]

The number of firearms, model of firearms nor amount of ammunition are adequate in determining actual intent or assuming a viable threat.

Should the federal authorities require this information to assess a possible intent ... They would have to conduct a formal investigation.
Any such investigation would probably require a warrant and proof of probable cause.

Neither of which I would assume to be difficult providing for in the case of Nikolas Cruz considering his incredibly extensive record with authorities.

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You have it wrong. You're talking a fishing expedition to find out what weapons and ammo he has. That's not grounds for a warrant.

so - we can't find a way to investigate one person w/2 dozen plus complaints against him but we can make millions of gun owners without a single complaint against them register their ammo.

again - this is why we can't have nice laws.

 

[LittleNipper]

I actually imagine that the officer didn't want to shoot the wrong person, or be accused of being a racist if this shooter had happened to be black. The issue today is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. People simply don't want to become embroiled in lawsuits and have their character plastered all over the airwaves. The guy didn't know what to do and we seem to have ourselves to blame!

 

[DamnDude]

None of it registered because the guns weren't registered. They had no clue how many guns or how much ammunition Cruz had.

that kinda goes for any of us so what's your point?

when people talk like this the main thing you show is how much you DO NOT know about the current system.

That's the point. We need full and complete gun registration, and ammunition registration. It's one thing for somebody to be an unstable mental case. But currently it comes as a surprise that he's a well armed unstable mental case.

Knowledge is knowing. Had the florida police known how many guns Cruz had, and how big an arsenal he as building, they would have done something during their 39 police visits.

You're just extra trolling here right??? The law enforcement that showed up at any of those 39 times had to have known he had those weapons, even without a registration, due to many of the complaints being about his well being and what he might do with those guns.

On registration alone, no thank you, I don't need to be at the top of any list should anyone decide to change something and make me a criminal...... I mean for the sake of all that is holy, every time anyone tries to apply to buy a weapon, they have to go through the background check and as "illegal" as it might be, I bet somewhere, someone has each and every time I have applied to purchase a weapon.

Ammunition registration? seriously? By that logic we should have to register each and every time we buy fuel.... or nails, or screws, gunpowder, fertilizer, hammers, baseball bats, knives..... After all we should know about each and every opportunity someone might use something in a malfeasant manner. gtfo out of here with that shit.

 

[iceberg]

None of it registered because the guns weren't registered. They had no clue how many guns or how much ammunition Cruz had.

that kinda goes for any of us so what's your point?

when people talk like this the main thing you show is how much you DO NOT know about the current system.

That's the point. We need full and complete gun registration, and ammunition registration. It's one thing for somebody to be an unstable mental case. But currently it comes as a surprise that he's a well armed unstable mental case.

Knowledge is knowing. Had the florida police known how many guns Cruz had, and how big an arsenal he as building, they would have done something during their 39 police visits.

You're just extra trolling here right??? The law enforcement that showed up at any of those 39 times had to have known he had those weapons, even without a registration, due to many of the complaints being about his well being and what he might do with those guns.

On registration alone, no thank you, I don't need to be at the top of any list should anyone decide to change something and make me a criminal...... I mean for the sake of all that is holy, every time anyone tries to apply to buy a weapon, they have to go through the background check and as "illegal" as it might be, I bet somewhere, someone has each and every time I have applied to purchase a weapon.

Ammunition registration? seriously? By that logic we should have to register each and every time we buy fuel.... or nails, or screws, gunpowder, fertilizer, hammers, baseball bats, knives..... After all we should know about each and every opportunity someone might use something in a malfeasant manner. gtfo out of here with that shit.

AND STAY THE FUCK OUT!

 

[radical right]

asking people to register guns AND ammo? they'll walk away and we do nothing. again.

They won't ask. They'll require people selling guns and ammo to tell the ATF what they sold, how much they sold, and who they sold it to.

And to make it simple, they should require the same ID requirements you need to vote in that state.

 

[radical right]

You have it wrong. You're talking a fishing expedition to find out what weapons and ammo he has. That's not grounds for a warrant.

You are obviously not familiar with the record of Nikolas Cruz.

In any case ... What I suggested is the proper legal recourse.
The burden to achieve a warrant by showing probable cause is on law enforcement ... And not a fishing expedition.

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Unless they arrested, and charged Cruz, which I don't think they ever did, they have no grounds for a warrant against somebody not under arrest.

That's a classic fishing expedition, and not grounds for a search warrant.

 

[iceberg]

asking people to register guns AND ammo? they'll walk away and we do nothing. again.

They won't ask. They'll require people selling guns and ammo to tell the ATF what they sold, how much they sold, and who they sold it to.

And to make it simple, they should require the same ID requirements you need to vote in that state.

yea, but good luck getting that law passed.

the reason we never get anything done is the liberals keep asking for things that cause the distrust they then turn around and mock with "but we're not coming for your guns!"

making law abiding citizens do the crap you're asking them to do because of 1% of the population isn't going to fly. it won't happen. if you say WE DEMAND THIS they say "fuck you" and walk away and again - no laws will get passed or nothing will change that CAN make a difference cause you're busy utilizing the idiots guide to gun safety.

 

[iceberg]

You have it wrong. You're talking a fishing expedition to find out what weapons and ammo he has. That's not grounds for a warrant.

You are obviously not familiar with the record of Nikolas Cruz.

In any case ... What I suggested is the proper legal recourse.
The burden to achieve a warrant by showing probable cause is on law enforcement ... And not a fishing expedition.

.

Unless they arrested, and charged Cruz, which I don't think they ever did, they have no grounds for a warrant against somebody not under arrest.

That's a classic fishing expedition, and not grounds for a search warrant.

so again - we can't look into someone with 2 dozen complaints and 2 years of history but if he happens to buy 1k rounds of ammo, suddenly we got 'em!

just stop.

 

[radical right]

But right now the FBI and police aren't allowed to see the flags before a murder investigation. So they can't do anything before the murders start. This must end.

and hey - if they FBI can't see HEY FUCKERS - THIS GUY HAS GUNS AND IS GONNA START SHOOTING PEOPLE ANY DAY NOW then i don't think seeing a few thousand rounds of ammo is going to clue them in.

They get reports like that hundreds of times a day. That isnt' grounds to go break down the guys door. Remember the guy the swat team shot because somebody in california called in a fake report.

California man charged in Kansas for 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax
A California man accused of making a hoax call in connection to an online quarrel between two “Call of Duty” gamers that led to the fatal police shooting of an unarmed man in Kansas

 

[DamnDude]

asking people to register guns AND ammo? they'll walk away and we do nothing. again.

They won't ask. They'll require people selling guns and ammo to tell the ATF what they sold, how much they sold, and who they sold it to.

And to make it simple, they should require the same ID requirements you need to vote in that state.

Soooo..... you would have a store clerk deputized as a federal agent?
I could not possibly see any thing being wrong with that.... (just in case you missed it, let me tell you, that was sarcasm )

As for ID requirements..... many shortcomings in other states, however, where I live, you must provide an ID to purchase not only a firearm, but the ammunition as well.... The Bassacward thing here is, you don't have to have an ID to vote.....

 

[radical right]

Unless they arrested, and charged Cruz, which I don't think they ever did, they have no grounds for a warrant against somebody not under arrest.

That's a classic fishing expedition, and not grounds for a search warrant.

so again - we can't look into someone with 2 dozen complaints and 2 years of history but if he happens to buy 1k rounds of ammo, suddenly we got 'em!

just stop.

Complaints mean nothing. I can file a dozen complaints against you, and that doesn't mean the police can get a search warrant.

But it might have been good for florida child services to know the guy showing suicidal tendencies suddenly bought a cache of guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo, they would have come to a different conclusion of him not being a danger to others.

 

[iceberg]

But right now the FBI and police aren't allowed to see the flags before a murder investigation. So they can't do anything before the murders start. This must end.

and hey - if they FBI can't see HEY FUCKERS - THIS GUY HAS GUNS AND IS GONNA START SHOOTING PEOPLE ANY DAY NOW then i don't think seeing a few thousand rounds of ammo is going to clue them in.

They get reports like that hundreds of times a day. That isnt' grounds to go break down the guys door. Remember the guy the swat team shot because somebody in california called in a fake report.

California man charged in Kansas for 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax
A California man accused of making a hoax call in connection to an online quarrel between two “Call of Duty” gamers that led to the fatal police shooting of an unarmed man in Kansas

again - you'll defend what is right in front of us and NOT want to fix that but you want to *FIX* something you have zero chance of succeeding.

you want to make a different, be realistic in what we can do and what both sides can accomplish IF we stop asking for stupid shit that will just end all discussion at all.

 

[radical right]

They won't ask. They'll require people selling guns and ammo to tell the ATF what they sold, how much they sold, and who they sold it to.

And to make it simple, they should require the same ID requirements you need to vote in that state.

Soooo..... you would have a store clerk deputized as a federal agent?
I could not possibly see any thing being wrong with that.... (just in case you missed it, let me tell you, that was sarcasm )

As for ID requirements..... many shortcomings in other states, however, where I live, you must provide an ID to purchase not only a firearm, but the ammunition as well.... The Bassacward thing here is, you don't have to have an ID to vote.....

When the manufacture sells ammo, they have to tell the ATF who they sold it to. This just continues the chain of ownership. This just lets the authorities know before the murders start, who has what. It's to provide the picture with red flags on it.

 

[radical right]

California man charged in Kansas for 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax
A California man accused of making a hoax call in connection to an online quarrel between two “Call of Duty” gamers that led to the fatal police shooting of an unarmed man in Kansas

again - you'll defend what is right in front of us and NOT want to fix that but you want to *FIX* something you have zero chance of succeeding.

you want to make a different, be realistic in what we can do and what both sides can accomplish IF we stop asking for stupid shit that will just end all discussion at all.

Had the SWAT team had full firearm and ammunition registration information on the guys house they went to, they would have realized the call was a hoax.

 

[iceberg]

California man charged in Kansas for 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax
A California man accused of making a hoax call in connection to an online quarrel between two “Call of Duty” gamers that led to the fatal police shooting of an unarmed man in Kansas

again - you'll defend what is right in front of us and NOT want to fix that but you want to *FIX* something you have zero chance of succeeding.

you want to make a different, be realistic in what we can do and what both sides can accomplish IF we stop asking for stupid shit that will just end all discussion at all.

Had the SWAT team had full firearm and ammunition registration information on the guys house they went to, they would have realized the call was a hoax.

you're looking behind you with 20/20 vision and thinking I GOT THIS WE'LL JUST REGISTER BULLETS!!!

the only thing that shows is your vast mis-comprehension of the issue, the people involved, and the history that got us here.

doing that shit is why nothing has been done for so long. you really wanna keep getting nothing done by chunking hail marys in a hockey rink?

 

[radical right]

you're looking behind you with 20/20 vision and thinking I GOT THIS WE'LL JUST REGISTER BULLETS!!!

It's all about useful information. I'm not afraid of the guy who has 20 guns he collected over 20 years. But i'm scared of the guy who suddenly buys 20 guns in the span of a few weeks. Especially if he also stocks up on ammunition at the same time.

Meanwhile I don't care about the guy who buys 20 guns a day, if he never bought any ammunition.

 

[iceberg]

you're looking behind you with 20/20 vision and thinking I GOT THIS WE'LL JUST REGISTER BULLETS!!!

It's all about useful information. I'm not afraid of the guy who has 20 guns he collected over 20 years. But i'm scared of the guy who suddenly buys 20 guns in the span of a few weeks. Especially if he also stocks up on ammunition at the same time.

Meanwhile I don't care about the guy who buys 20 guns a day, if he never bought any ammunition.

meanwhile you'll never get either of those numbers despite how clever you think it would be to have them.

you just killed any momentum of change by going for what will never happen.

good job.

 

[radical right]

Somebody who suddenly buys guns, ammunition and a bullet proof vest.

RED FLAG

 

[iceberg]

Somebody who suddenly buys guns, ammunition and a bullet proof vest.

RED FLAG

26+ CALLS TO THE FBI - RED FLAG.

26 calls to the FBI and local police and police on his property several times in that span and yet - nothing we can do, according to you.

someone makes a questionable purchase online, TAKE ACTION!!! any idea how many of these vests get sold every week? many are just wanting defense and now you make them a suspect because they're trying to protect themselves but you won't go after the psychotic kid who carves up animals in front of his mom cause we have nothing to go on.

done. you just don't get it, and you likely never will.