Sodom and Gomorrah

[koshergrl]

The fact that you think all sins are the same to your god is the scariest.

Murder is the same as eating shellfish, but slavery in a moral sense is a-ok.

Yikes.

Yeah, just as 'moral' as abortion is. Another waste of time.

Excellent deflection.

She said all sins are the same to your god, your god calls killing a sin as well as eating shellfish. That to me is psychotic.

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yeah, just as 'moral' as abortion is. Another waste of time.

Excellent deflection.

She said all sins are the same to your god, your god calls killing a sin as well as eating shellfish. That to me is psychotic.

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

This is the thing about many of those Old Testament rules and regs often ridiculed and scorned by those who are reading the text through modern 21st century eyes.

In the ancient times there was no refrigeration, often no uncontaminated water in which to properly wash the food, no FDA to inspect the products, and no scientific way to judge when the red tides or other problems beset the shellfish and rendered them harmful to eat. Being nomadic tribes, there was no time to preserve or cure meats and produce and, because there was no way to know if it was contaminated with parasites or otherwise spoiled and dangerous to eat, a lot of it was made verbotin.

We in modern times would probably have less illness and other problems from our food if we insisted on eating only fresh meat and produce instead of the aging stuff that we get in the grocery stores.

I still remember the folks chasing down and wringing the neck of the Sunday chicken - plucking, cutting it up, and frying it immediately. There is nothing better in the world than that. Unless it is fresh caught fish, cleaned and cooked on the spot. The aged chicken and fish in the grocery store cannot even come close to comparing.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Excellent deflection.

She said all sins are the same to your god, your god calls killing a sin as well as eating shellfish. That to me is psychotic.

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

This is the thing about many of those Old Testament rules and regs often ridiculed and scorned by those who are reading the text through modern 21st century eyes.

In the ancient times there was no refrigeration, often no uncontaminated water in which to properly wash the food, no FDA to inspect the products, and no scientific way to judge when the red tides or other problems beset the shellfish and rendered them harmful to eat. Being nomadic tribes, there was no time to preserve or cure meats and produce and, because there was no way to know if it was contaminated with parasites or otherwise spoiled and dangerous to eat, a lot of it was made verbotin.

We in modern times would probably have less illness and other problems from our food if we insisted on eating only fresh meat and produce instead of the aging stuff that we get in the grocery stores.

She said all sins were the same so if god says eating shellfish is a sin and murder is a sin that's a little crazy to equate those 2 things, right?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Yeah, just as 'moral' as abortion is. Another waste of time.

Excellent deflection.

She said all sins are the same to your god, your god calls killing a sin as well as eating shellfish. That to me is psychotic.

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

You said god views all sins as the same, you didn't mention the commandments as being worse sins, you stated the opposite that they're all the same.

 

[Foxfyre]

Excellent deflection.

She said all sins are the same to your god, your god calls killing a sin as well as eating shellfish. That to me is psychotic.

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

You said god views all sins as the same, you didn't mention the commandments as being worse sins, you stated the opposite that they're all the same.

In the ancient belief, ALL sin was deadly. You kept every point of the law or it resulted in the same condemnation as if you had broken all of it. Evenso, to break the law was not automatic eternal damnation as there were ways to absolve and forgive the sin. But the religious ancients did they best they could to keep the whole Law lest they die before one of those ritutal ceremonies to forgive sins was available. And certainly God took some sins and concentration of sin much more serously such as in the stories of Sodom and Gommorah.

So I think that is what Koshergirl meant if she said God views all sin as the same. How much did God command and how much of it developed out of custom has been debated now for millenia, but I think to get trapped and derailed by the minutaiae is not a good idea but I prefer to teach a focus on the big picture and whole theme to get the best the Bible has to offer.

 

[mudwhistle]

Impose a rule, like working on sunday, then the punishment if you don't follow that is death.

Sounds like you're a big fan of the Saudi Arabian rule of law, they kill people for this level of "mistake" as well.

Your god orders you to kill infidels who don't listen to priests, orders you to kill gays, orders you to kill fortunetellers, orders you to kill someone who hits their father, orders you to kill people who curse their parents, demands the murder of adulterers, demands the death of priest's daughters who aren't virgins, your god committed genocide at ppl solely for being infidels according to the Bible, committed genocide against a town of ppl bc one infidel lived in it, orders you to kill women who aren't virgins before they get married, orders you to kill infidels even if they're family members, and as mentioned orders the deaths of those who work on Sunday.

Now any rational, sane human being views all those things as essentially the worst things morally a person can do. However what religion does, is makes humans find a way to rationalize, excuse and even worse talk about how perfectly moral those things are based on who did them (your god). Thankfully as a non-believer, I don't have to live in fear of such a morally revolting entity, let alone worship the morally revolting entity.

This shows have a total lack of understanding to the teaching of Jesus.

You're forgetting "he who is without sin....let him cast the first stone".

Since you forgot this or want to ignore it .........what can I do.

I understand the teachings of Jesus, many of them are the opposite of what his sickening father taught.

You cast stones allllllllll the time on here with people who disagree with your politics, so that's some nice hypocrisy you have going on.

Since you forgot this or want to ignore..............what can I do, besides remind you of when you do it.

Yeah. Right. I murder people here by stoning allllllllll the time.

It's one thing to argue a point.

It's another to want to kill someone for breaking a crazy law.

Obviously you can't tell the friggen difference.

Casting stones in the example I pointed out is casting stones in the literal sense. If you want to close this forum down then insist on perfection from every single member before they are allowed to post. It's not gonna happen.

 

[Dr.Drock]

This shows have a total lack of understanding to the teaching of Jesus.

You're forgetting "he who is without sin....let him cast the first stone".

Since you forgot this or want to ignore it .........what can I do.

I understand the teachings of Jesus, many of them are the opposite of what his sickening father taught.

You cast stones allllllllll the time on here with people who disagree with your politics, so that's some nice hypocrisy you have going on.

Since you forgot this or want to ignore..............what can I do, besides remind you of when you do it.

Yeah. Right. I murder people here by stoning allllllllll the time.

It's one thing to argue a point.

It's another to want to kill someone for breaking a crazy law.

Obviously you can't tell the friggen difference.

You're the one who claimed I murder people by stoning them if that's how you were using the cast the first stone line, I thought you were speaking metaphorically that's why I used the line. Don't fault me for using a line that you yourself introduced.

Your god according to the Bible tells you to kill someone for breaking a crazy law, there's no gray area. It's the same crazy batshit kill infidel stuff you see in the Koran.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

You said god views all sins as the same, you didn't mention the commandments as being worse sins, you stated the opposite that they're all the same.

In the ancient belief, ALL sin was deadly. You kept every point of the law or it resulted in the same condemnation as if you had broken all of it. Evenso, to break the law was not automatic eternal damnation as there were ways to absolve and forgive the sin. But the religious ancients did they best they could to keep the whole Law lest they die before one of those ritutal ceremonies to forgive sins was available. And certainly God took some sins and concentration of sin much more serously such as in the stories of Sodom and Gommorah.

So I think that is what Koshergirl meant if she said God views all sin as the same. How much did God command and how much of it developed out of custom has been debated now for millenia, but I think to get trapped and derailed by the minutaiae is not a good idea but I prefer to teach a focus on the big picture and whole theme to get the best the Bible has to offer.

That depends, if the whole big picture includes killing everyone who works on Sundays then I dunno if I can get a good theme out of that.

Now if I can ignore the Old Testament, and take 99% of the moral teachings in the New Testament, then the Bible would be a great thing.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

This is the thing about many of those Old Testament rules and regs often ridiculed and scorned by those who are reading the text through modern 21st century eyes.

In the ancient times there was no refrigeration, often no uncontaminated water in which to properly wash the food, no FDA to inspect the products, and no scientific way to judge when the red tides or other problems beset the shellfish and rendered them harmful to eat. Being nomadic tribes, there was no time to preserve or cure meats and produce and, because there was no way to know if it was contaminated with parasites or otherwise spoiled and dangerous to eat, a lot of it was made verbotin.

We in modern times would probably have less illness and other problems from our food if we insisted on eating only fresh meat and produce instead of the aging stuff that we get in the grocery stores.

She said all sins were the same so if god says eating shellfish is a sin and murder is a sin that's a little crazy to equate those 2 things, right?

Actually, the shellfish thing is from the 613 Mitzovht, which not only includes rules for those in Jewish society, but they also had dietary restrictions. Many of which, if you looked at them from a health view, you would see that those rules make sense if you have no refrigeration or way of telling whether there is a red tide or not.

As far as what constitutes actual sin? It's contained in the 7 Noahide Commandment or the 10 Commandments. Both say basically the same thing.

 

[mudwhistle]

I understand the teachings of Jesus, many of them are the opposite of what his sickening father taught.

You cast stones allllllllll the time on here with people who disagree with your politics, so that's some nice hypocrisy you have going on.

Since you forgot this or want to ignore..............what can I do, besides remind you of when you do it.

Yeah. Right. I murder people here by stoning allllllllll the time.

It's one thing to argue a point.

It's another to want to kill someone for breaking a crazy law.

Obviously you can't tell the friggen difference.

You're the one who claimed I murder people by stoning them if that's how you were using the cast the first stone line, I thought you were speaking metaphorically that's why I used the line. Don't fault me for using a line that you yourself introduced.

Your god according to the Bible tells you to kill someone for breaking a crazy law, there's no gray area. It's the same crazy batshit kill infidel stuff you see in the Koran.

I haven't accused you of attempted murder!

FYI the primary purpose Jesus lived among us was to change the laws, to write new doctine.

Through his sacrifice and his unbelievable grace we don't have to die for our sins.

Jesus himself was put to death for our sins so that we may have life. Stoning for committing sin was removed by God as a punishment forever.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whomsoever believes in him will have everlasting life"

 

[Foxfyre]

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

This is the thing about many of those Old Testament rules and regs often ridiculed and scorned by those who are reading the text through modern 21st century eyes.

In the ancient times there was no refrigeration, often no uncontaminated water in which to properly wash the food, no FDA to inspect the products, and no scientific way to judge when the red tides or other problems beset the shellfish and rendered them harmful to eat. Being nomadic tribes, there was no time to preserve or cure meats and produce and, because there was no way to know if it was contaminated with parasites or otherwise spoiled and dangerous to eat, a lot of it was made verbotin.

We in modern times would probably have less illness and other problems from our food if we insisted on eating only fresh meat and produce instead of the aging stuff that we get in the grocery stores.

She said all sins were the same so if god says eating shellfish is a sin and murder is a sin that's a little crazy to equate those 2 things, right?

If you want to be a numbnut and interpret incorrectly through 21st century understanding, it would look crazy yes. If you read it through the eyes of the people of that time and their understanding of the consequences of sin, ALL sin, as being death, then it is less crazy. It is not that one sin is not worse than another for the people at the time but the consequences bring you to the same place.

Again how much of this came from the priests attempting to bring order out of an otherwise chaotic society and set of rules and regulations and how much was conviction that it was God's will has been debated for millenia.

But when you focus on something like that instead of seeing the big picture that is being laid out there, you're going to get the Bible wrong every single time.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yeah. Right. I murder people here by stoning allllllllll the time.

It's one thing to argue a point.

It's another to want to kill someone for breaking a crazy law.

Obviously you can't tell the friggen difference.

You're the one who claimed I murder people by stoning them if that's how you were using the cast the first stone line, I thought you were speaking metaphorically that's why I used the line. Don't fault me for using a line that you yourself introduced.

Your god according to the Bible tells you to kill someone for breaking a crazy law, there's no gray area. It's the same crazy batshit kill infidel stuff you see in the Koran.

I haven't accused you of attempted murder!

FYI the primary purpose Jesus lived among us was to change the laws, to write new doctine.

Through his sacrifice and he unbelievable grace we don't have to die for our sins.

Jesus himself was put to death for our sins so that we may have life. Stoning for committing sin was removed by God as a punishment forever.

Actually, Yeshua's primary purpose was to come for the Nations of the world and teach them about God. In other words, everyone who wasn't Jewish (i.e. Gentile).

It's reflected in the story where Yeshua casts the demons out of a man and sends them into the pigs which threw themselves off a cliff.

 

[mudwhistle]

You're the one who claimed I murder people by stoning them if that's how you were using the cast the first stone line, I thought you were speaking metaphorically that's why I used the line. Don't fault me for using a line that you yourself introduced.

Your god according to the Bible tells you to kill someone for breaking a crazy law, there's no gray area. It's the same crazy batshit kill infidel stuff you see in the Koran.

I haven't accused you of attempted murder!

FYI the primary purpose Jesus lived among us was to change the laws, to write new doctine.

Through his sacrifice and he unbelievable grace we don't have to die for our sins.

Jesus himself was put to death for our sins so that we may have life. Stoning for committing sin was removed by God as a punishment forever.

Actually, Yeshua's primary purpose was to come for the Nations of the world and teach them about God. In other words, everyone who wasn't Jewish (i.e. Gentile).

It's reflected in the story where Yeshua casts the demons out of a man and sends them into the pigs which threw themselves off a cliff.

Wrong. His primary purpose was to be the lamb of God.

If his primary purpose was to teach God would have kept him alive to do so.

He only had a short time to pass his knowledge on to the disciples. They were to teach nations and bear witness to his gifts. To witness to his miracles. To spread his gospel to all of the Earth. To date there is over 1.3 billion followers.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I haven't accused you of attempted murder!

FYI the primary purpose Jesus lived among us was to change the laws, to write new doctine.

Through his sacrifice and he unbelievable grace we don't have to die for our sins.

Jesus himself was put to death for our sins so that we may have life. Stoning for committing sin was removed by God as a punishment forever.

Actually, Yeshua's primary purpose was to come for the Nations of the world and teach them about God. In other words, everyone who wasn't Jewish (i.e. Gentile).

It's reflected in the story where Yeshua casts the demons out of a man and sends them into the pigs which threw themselves off a cliff.

Wrong. His primary purpose was to be the lamb of God.

If his primary purpose was to teach God would have kept him alive to do so.

He only had a short time to pass his knowledge on to the disciples. They were to teach nations and bear witness to his gifts. To witness to his miracles. To spread his gospel to all of the Earth. To date there is over 1.3 billion followers.

Interestingly enough, when Judas handed Yeshua over to the authorities, he didn't think that he was going to be crucified. He just thought that Yeshua would be taken in to see the High Priest, not turned over to the Romans.

History Channel has some pretty good documentaries about Yeshua's life.

 

[Newby]

Your obsession with it certainly is.

Besides which, it's not one of the commandments. So your obsession with it is even more psychotic than it would be if it really was a commandment and not just an order to keep God's people from being wiped out by food poisoning and that weird toxic shit that you can get from bad shellfish.

You said god views all sins as the same, you didn't mention the commandments as being worse sins, you stated the opposite that they're all the same.

In the ancient belief, ALL sin was deadly. You kept every point of the law or it resulted in the same condemnation as if you had broken all of it. Evenso, to break the law was not automatic eternal damnation as there were ways to absolve and forgive the sin. But the religious ancients did they best they could to keep the whole Law lest they die before one of those ritutal ceremonies to forgive sins was available. And certainly God took some sins and concentration of sin much more serously such as in the stories of Sodom and Gommorah.

So I think that is what Koshergirl meant if she said God views all sin as the same. How much did God command and how much of it developed out of custom has been debated now for millenia, but I think to get trapped and derailed by the minutaiae is not a good idea but I prefer to teach a focus on the big picture and whole theme to get the best the Bible has to offer.

He's apparently incapable of understanding it from that perspective, or it doesn't fit his agenda to understand it from that perspective. You can't ridicule, belittle and humiliate that way, which is clearly his objective here.

 

[Newby]

This is the thing about many of those Old Testament rules and regs often ridiculed and scorned by those who are reading the text through modern 21st century eyes.

In the ancient times there was no refrigeration, often no uncontaminated water in which to properly wash the food, no FDA to inspect the products, and no scientific way to judge when the red tides or other problems beset the shellfish and rendered them harmful to eat. Being nomadic tribes, there was no time to preserve or cure meats and produce and, because there was no way to know if it was contaminated with parasites or otherwise spoiled and dangerous to eat, a lot of it was made verbotin.

We in modern times would probably have less illness and other problems from our food if we insisted on eating only fresh meat and produce instead of the aging stuff that we get in the grocery stores.

She said all sins were the same so if god says eating shellfish is a sin and murder is a sin that's a little crazy to equate those 2 things, right?

If you want to be a numbnut and interpret incorrectly through 21st century understanding, it would look crazy yes. If you read it through the eyes of the people of that time and their understanding of the consequences of sin, ALL sin, as being death, then it is less crazy. It is not that one sin is not worse than another for the people at the time but the consequences bring you to the same place.

Again how much of this came from the priests attempting to bring order out of an otherwise chaotic society and set of rules and regulations and how much was conviction that it was God's will has been debated for millenia.

But when you focus on something like that instead of seeing the big picture that is being laid out there, you're going to get the Bible wrong every single time.

Bless you for your patience, Fox...

 

[Sky Dancer]

I find some equivocations of sin very strange. The Pope considers women being ordained as priests to be more damaging to the RCC than pedophile priests. The way some religious act, you would think a long term gay marriage is the equivalent of murder.

I've also heard, if you've broken one sin, you've broken them all. (James 2:10)

 

[mudwhistle]

Actually, Yeshua's primary purpose was to come for the Nations of the world and teach them about God. In other words, everyone who wasn't Jewish (i.e. Gentile).

It's reflected in the story where Yeshua casts the demons out of a man and sends them into the pigs which threw themselves off a cliff.

Wrong. His primary purpose was to be the lamb of God.

If his primary purpose was to teach God would have kept him alive to do so.

He only had a short time to pass his knowledge on to the disciples. They were to teach nations and bear witness to his gifts. To witness to his miracles. To spread his gospel to all of the Earth. To date there is over 1.3 billion followers.

Interestingly enough, when Judas handed Yeshua over to the authorities, he didn't think that he was going to be crucified. He just thought that Yeshua would be taken in to see the High Priest, not turned over to the Romans.

History Channel has some pretty good documentaries about Yeshua's life.

Exactly. Judas was a scholar. As most learned men do he was thinking about the intellectual aspect of Jesus' teachings and not the spiritual.

They can't think as God does. It seems ilogical. They need proof for everything to become a believer. They don't have the faith of a child.

Unquestioned faith. This should be the heart a child of God. This is why children are blessed.

 

[Dr.Drock]

This is the thing about many of those Old Testament rules and regs often ridiculed and scorned by those who are reading the text through modern 21st century eyes.

In the ancient times there was no refrigeration, often no uncontaminated water in which to properly wash the food, no FDA to inspect the products, and no scientific way to judge when the red tides or other problems beset the shellfish and rendered them harmful to eat. Being nomadic tribes, there was no time to preserve or cure meats and produce and, because there was no way to know if it was contaminated with parasites or otherwise spoiled and dangerous to eat, a lot of it was made verbotin.

We in modern times would probably have less illness and other problems from our food if we insisted on eating only fresh meat and produce instead of the aging stuff that we get in the grocery stores.

She said all sins were the same so if god says eating shellfish is a sin and murder is a sin that's a little crazy to equate those 2 things, right?

If you want to be a numbnut and interpret incorrectly through 21st century understanding, it would look crazy yes. If you read it through the eyes of the people of that time and their understanding of the consequences of sin, ALL sin, as being death, then it is less crazy. It is not that one sin is not worse than another for the people at the time but the consequences bring you to the same place.

Again how much of this came from the priests attempting to bring order out of an otherwise chaotic society and set of rules and regulations and how much was conviction that it was God's will has been debated for millenia.

But when you focus on something like that instead of seeing the big picture that is being laid out there, you're going to get the Bible wrong every single time.

I get it, you only want me to focus on the good things the Bible says. That's the same stuff the nuns told me.

All the random genocide of God in the Old Testament, should be ignored. However when I ask believers if I should ignore the Old Testament, they say no. Whenever all the immoral things God did and God commands in the Old Testament are pointed out, they excuse them.

If I only had to take the New Testament seriously, the religion would make more sense to me.

 

[Foxfyre]

She said all sins were the same so if god says eating shellfish is a sin and murder is a sin that's a little crazy to equate those 2 things, right?

If you want to be a numbnut and interpret incorrectly through 21st century understanding, it would look crazy yes. If you read it through the eyes of the people of that time and their understanding of the consequences of sin, ALL sin, as being death, then it is less crazy. It is not that one sin is not worse than another for the people at the time but the consequences bring you to the same place.

Again how much of this came from the priests attempting to bring order out of an otherwise chaotic society and set of rules and regulations and how much was conviction that it was God's will has been debated for millenia.

But when you focus on something like that instead of seeing the big picture that is being laid out there, you're going to get the Bible wrong every single time.

I get it, you only want me to focus on the good things the Bible says. That's the same stuff the nuns told me.

All the random genocide of God in the Old Testament, should be ignored. However when I ask believers if I should ignore the Old Testament, they say no. Whenever all the immoral things God did and God commands in the Old Testament are pointed out, they excuse them.

If I only had to take the New Testament seriously, the religion would make more sense to me.

If that is what you got from my post, I fear you are doomed to eternal ignorance my friend.