Tea Party Is Recycled John Birch Society Hate Rhetoric

[JakeStarkey]

The JBS, a good part of it rooted in your religion, Avatar, is not the friend of America or the Constitution.

 

[uscitizen]

Bull..... I yelled at Boosh for the last six years of his terms... so STFU, we all didnt agree with him.
He was a liberal just like Obama... he just had more class about it. I still hated it too!

You are the Minority, most republicans defended his every move until he left office. Only THEN did you hear Repubs say "hey, I didnt like that thing he did! You just never saw me say it! But I did, really"

Bullcrap. Been on this board a long time and Almost everyone on the right was regularly criticizing President Bush when he was wrong throughout his administration. Including: Spending, War, No Child Left Behind, Immigration Reform, the Patriot Act.

To pretend as if there was some uniformity in support on the right is utter nonsense.

Of course they were, they just never thought he was wrong

 

[uscitizen]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6taS9R1KM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG6taS9R1KM[/ame]

 

[Madeline]

No lefty I know gives a rat's ass about the Constitution.

So whose side am I to be on?

Seriously? Most folks seem incensed by the actions of the ACLU, and yet not one group in American fights harder to defend the constitution.

 

[Revere]

Only the Constitution as it pertains to non-Christians.

 

[loosecannon]

Who is behind the Glenn Beck Revision Of American History?

The John Birch Society was one of the decade’s most controversial right-wing organizations. Founded in 1958 by Robert Welch, a candy manufacturer from Massachusetts, the society took its name from a Baptist missionary and military-intelligence officer killed by Communist Chinese forces in 1945, whom Welch called the first American casualty of the Cold War. The group was founded at a propitious time. After Senator Joseph McCarthy’s fall, in 1954, many of McCarthy’s followers felt bereft of a voice, and Welch seemed to speak for them; by the mid-sixties, his society’s membership was estimated to be as high as a hundred thousand. Welch, exploiting fears of what McCarthy had called an “immense” domestic conspiracy, declared that the federal government had already fallen into the Communists’ clutches. In a tract titled “The Politician,” he attacked President Dwight D. Eisenhower as “a dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy” who had been serving the plot “all of his adult life.” Late in 1961, after the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion, he accused the Kennedy Administration of “helping the Communists everywhere in the world while pretending to do the opposite.”

Wherever he looked, Welch saw Communist forces manipulating American economic and foreign policy

Glenn Beck, the Tea Party, and the Republicans : The New Yorker

You Tea Party people are drinking some rancid -- but old -- kool aid. Wake the Fuck Up, people.

You mistake the tea party for the folks who hope to co opt it for their own ambitions.

The tea party was originally an offshoot of Ron Paul's popularity. And in many ways it still is, having no ties to Beck whatsoever.

 

[Madeline]

I dont even know where to start with you.....

You tell me one thing Beck has done out of context, b/c I have looked and listened. I nothing of the sort.
He is actually going and getting burried information, that if YOU actually fact checked you'd see he is right. At least most of the time.

He always says "go look it up for yourselves, dont take my word for it".

And as for you saying tea partiers call Obama a communist..... well, if a person surrounds themself with "self avowed socialist, and YES communists" then what does that make him?

He is the closest thing since FDR to one....

FDR was no commie. Neither is Obama. He kept on people from the Bush administration and that doesn't make a Republican.

Having the best people for the right job is just plain smart..regardless of their affiliation.

FDR and Obama are both socialists. FDR moved toward socialism as far as he could considering how long he lived. Obama is doing the same thing.

Communism is not the logical extension of socialism, Revere. In its theory form, communism is pie-in-the-sky nonsense that people can learn to coexist without any government at all, because their nature is to be cooperative. (Insert laughing sound here.) In nations that have claimed to be "communist", what you find every time instead is the most oppressive, fascist dictatorships to ever exist on Planet Earth.

Socialist capitalism is the moderate and well-tried belief that the greed of the wealthy must be reigned in for the good of the nation. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to look at the Gulf and see the result of weak regulation...but you can also see it today in banking, finance, housing, food, drugs and other market segments.

Reasonable people can disagree on what degree of regulation is most desirable, and likely we will never settle that question. But only a few extremists with a poor understanding of economics call for the repeal of all FDR's regulatory reforms. Without them, we'd be a third world nation today....and I'm guessing you and I would not be occupying one of the berths at the mega-rich ranch.

 

[Madeline]

I dont even know where to start with you.....

You tell me one thing Beck has done out of context, b/c I have looked and listened. I nothing of the sort.
He is actually going and getting burried information, that if YOU actually fact checked you'd see he is right. At least most of the time.

He always says "go look it up for yourselves, dont take my word for it".

And as for you saying tea partiers call Obama a communist..... well, if a person surrounds themself with "self avowed socialist, and YES communists" then what does that make him?

He is the closest thing since FDR to one....

FDR was no commie. Neither is Obama. He kept on people from the Bush administration and that doesn't make a Republican.

Having the best people for the right job is just plain smart..regardless of their affiliation.

I disagree with your view of FDR, and Obama only left token players from Bush admin.

Plus, I could care less about Bush appointees... they were doing a great deal of damage as well.

You are'nt going to find a booshbot in my closet.

Obama has hired numerous czars that are'nt vetted and have been found to have commie tendencies. So I guess technically they are'nt commies, but if you wear their colors you are a believer in commie ideologies.

The Infidel, what do you mean by "commie influences"?

BTW, I agree with you and Annie...Obama's appointees (except to the SCOTUS) have been abysmal.

 

[loosecannon]

Communism is not the logical extension of socialism, Revere.

Actually it is exactly that.

By definition for communism to occur it must evolve from a socialist state according to the popular will of the people. Ask Karl Marx.

But by that definition there has never been a communist nation state. So we wouldn't have any reason to hate such a state yet, or criticize it's failure.

 

[loosecannon]

In its theory form, communism is pie-in-the-sky nonsense that people can learn to coexist without any government at all, because their nature is to be cooperative.

nothing could be further from the truth. You obviously have no idea what communism is or isn't.

Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless society structured upon communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour and private property.[1] The exact definition of communism varies and it is commonly used interchangeably with socialism, however, communist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the way to communism.

A variety of different forms of communism have developed, each based upon the ideas of different political theorists, usually as additions or interpretations of various forms of Marxism, the collective philosophies of Karl Marx.[2] Marxism-Leninism is the synthesis of Vladimir Lenin's contributions to Marxism, such as how a revolutionary party should be organised; Trotskyism is Leon Trotsky's conception of Marxism and Maoism is Mao Tse Tung's interpretation of Marxism to suit the conditions of China at that time.

Communist theory generally states that the only way to solve the problems existing within capitalism is for the working class, referred to as the proletariat, who is the main producer of wealth in society and is exploited by the capitalist class, as explained in theories such as surplus value, to replace the bourgeoisie as the ruling class to establish a society without class divisions, called socialism, as a prelude to attempting to achieve the final stage of communism.[1]

Pure communism, or the stage in history after socialism, refers to a classless, stateless society, one where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made in the best interests of the collective society with the interests of every member of society given equal weight in the practical decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

Karl Marx, as well as some other communist philosophers, purposely never provided a detailed description as to how communism would function as a social system. In the communist manifesto, Marx lays out a 10-point plan advising the redistribution of land and production to achieve his social ideals. However, Marx fervently denies that this plan is to be carried out by any specific group or "class". According to Marx, communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour inevitably arises due to contradictions and class conflicts existing in capitalism, and the communists are merely professors who help frame struggles in terms of class struggle.[3] In this way, communism avoids the contradiction of creating a new class to replace the old one.

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Madeline]

The Tea Party is just the same old right wing of the Republican party. Same as it ever was.

What's different?

I think this is untrue, NYcarbineer. I think many people are politically active for the first time in their lives...or at least in decades, that identify with the Tea Party. My guess is, most felt little identification with either party before Obama's election.

 

[Madeline]

"Tea baggers" was coined by FOX news.

Deal.

Bullshit.

Keep making up your "facts," though. It's not like you have any credibility left to lose.

Stop whining about bullshit. It makes you all look like sexually-repressed phobics. It's just a w-o-r-d and it now has TWO meanings.

 

[loosecannon]

Socialist capitalism is the moderate and well-tried belief that the greed of the wealthy must be reigned in for the good of the nation.

That is actually called social democracy:

Social democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you should read the entire link. It will serve you.

 

[loosecannon]

"Tea baggers" was coined by FOX news.

Deal.

Bullshit.

Keep making up your "facts," though. It's not like you have any credibility left to lose.

Stop whining about bullshit. It makes you all look like sexually-repressed phobics. It's just a w-o-r-d and it now has TWO meanings.

fine, then lets call democrats "pussies" from now on.

 

[Madeline]

The tea party tried for a while to pretend it was just about economic issues, but now look at it.
Where are the social issues moderates or liberals in the movement? Are we to think it's just some sort of coincidence, some sort of random luck of the draw that the top tier of so-called tea party candidates are your standard-issue rightwing social conservatives, in fact, extremely conservative on the social issues?

Same crowd, different nickname.

Well, you are correct about this. How could a movement solely concerned with fiscal conservation field a slate like Palin, O'Donnell, Whitman, Paul, Angle, Miller, etc.?

Where's the economic brain power? What fiscal issues do any of them even address? It's 24/7 "I hate Muslims" and "gays are going to hell".

I think the Tea Party many thought they were joining has been stolen and co-opted by the Fox News Machine for the betterment of the religious right....and I am not the only one who feels this way.

This notion that the federal government – not only godless, but in flagrant violation of God's will – is "tyrannical" and needs to be overthrown resonates from militias to the John Birch Society to the podiums of religious-right gatherings where Republican presidential hopefuls jockey for the support of the faithful. To fail to see the religious roots of the Tea Party mantra – or the ways in which it reverberates as a divine imperative – is to blind oneself to a fundamental feature of American conservatism.

The Tea Party's religious roots exposed | Sarah Posner | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

 

[Madeline]

The Tea Party is just the same old right wing of the Republican party. Same as it ever was.

What's different?

And damn proud of it. We are the real Americans. The Americans that love America and don't want to change her. We are the Americans that learned to be proud of our country at a young age. It didn't take us 45 long years to do it. And, oh yes, most of us are white, not all but most.

Why are people who disagree with you about the direction this nation should take "lesser Americans"? You and I rarely agree...and yet I see myself as a patriot. As for the ethnicity of those who agree with me...I dun care. It is not ever gonna be a source of some weird pride if most are white.

I find that bizarre, Willow. My family has only been here since the 1920's, while the families of most black Americans in the US go far further back in time. Is someone less patriotic if they'd like a full compliment of civil rights?

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and waving a cross". -- Sinclair Lewis (or Huey Long, depending on your google results)

 

[Madeline]

Which of Bush's policies were found to be unconstitutional?

If you can accept SCOTUS decisions on the Patriot Act as definitive, why can't you accept these decisions as dispositive on the issue of abortion?

 

[Madeline]

If the tea party movement was made up of one person, and that person was Glenn Beck, who believed in and promoted the John Birch mantra, Madeline's thread would have been valid. Fortunately, as we all know, the tea party movement is made up of many individuals from various backgrounds and beliefs, who do not all agree on various aspects of governance.

Madeline,
You have engaged in logical fallacy with your thread. Furthermore, the John Birch Society is not and never has been the issue. The Constitution and the proper adherence thereto is the fundamental issue.

I agree and disagree, BasicGreatGuy. Glenn Beck's influence with the Tea Party is extraordinary, and he cannot be dismissed so easily. I do appreciate your willingness to admit the line between Glenn Beck and the John Birch Society, though.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "the constitution...is the fundamental issue". I thought fiscal conservation was the issue for the Tea Party?

 

[Madeline]

She has an intolerance of Christianity she won't apply to any other religion, specifically Islam.

Wrong-o. I have an intolerance for extreme christian fundies. I also object to Muslim fundies, but I am counting on the FBI and INS to assure me that we have none in the US.

 

[Madeline]

I hate communists. Don't you?

Depends on who you mean, Revere. People who support repressive dictatorships known for killing their own people? Of course.

Hippies deluded into thinking they can create a utopia? No, not really. Everyone is entitled to be an adolescent once...for a brief time.

Are you sure about that?

You know McCarthy outed Lauchlin Currie as a Communist spy and he and his buddies at over at State got the US to abandon Chaing Kai Shek for Mao.

Are you sure you don't support that?

Mao overthrew Chiang Kai-Shek in 1949. Pardon me if I have no recollection of those events; I wasn't even born yet.