Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school"

Wrong.

This is a lie.

Students and teachers are at liberty to use any word or words they so desire – including 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' with impunity.

The policy exists in an official capacity only, consistent with First Amendment jurisprudence, where the Establishment Clause prohibits government from promoting or endorsing religion.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Every child in an American school has the right NOT to celebrate traditional American holidays.

However, every American school receiving taxpayer funding should celebrate traditional American holidays, no question. If someone is offended, they can go to chaperoned study in the cafeteria.

Why not just keep religion at home?

Doesn't that do away with freedom of religion?

No.

Again, students and teachers are at liberty to pray, practice their religion, and make references to Christmas and Thanksgiving with impunity.

A teacher may ask a student what he got for Christmas, for example; two Christian teachers are at liberty to discuss their faith, plans for church next Sunday, and debate bible passages.

Schools may not in an official capacity promote or endorse religion absent a secular purpose, however, such as prayer as part of the sanctioned curriculum.

 

[Esmeralda]

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ. I don't want children exposed to the pseudo religion of a warmongerer and a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Everything else is fine by me. Sorry, and feel free to call me a bigot and whatever else. I won't mind.

"pseudo religion of a warmongerer", isn't Christianity a religion of war? Christianity teaches that you can sin and sin and sin, then go to church on a Sunday and everything will be okay again.

Just because people don't go to war in the name of Christianity like they do in Islam, doesn't mean that the religion doesn't play a big part.

If Dubya had been a Buddhist, would he have gone to war in Iraq? Probably not.

Fairy nuff.
But at the moment we are dealing with the Islamist threat, and harking back to Chritianities past is really not very useful. And before you say our former leaders were Christians, that was actually beside the point, they didn't act to further Christianity whatever nonsense issued forth from their silly mouths. We are facing jihad now, on a global scale, and that is all about the forceful submission and eradication of non Muslims. That's what we are dealing with, and that's where we need to focus. The jihadis adore all the handwringing libs who are undermining their own societies, cultures and doing half their job for them. Wake up and put aside the stuff that is dividing people who should be standing shoulder to shoulder, until later.

What is the threat right now?

An Islamic threat? Really? No. It's an extremist Islamic threat.

Harking back to the past IS USEFUL. Read my post 246 a few above this one about fundamental principles. History is a great way of testing your fundamental principles.

Facing Jihad, and doing it BADLY because people ignore the reasons for Jihad and are pretending (and I'm being serious) that it's the same as the Cold War. It's not. And if you make the wrong analysis of the problem, you'll make the wrong solution to the problem.

You really need to familiarise yourself with Islamic history, from its inception, and understand that Islam is not essentially a religion. Then you might be able to understand its aims better. Isis is just one of the most recent manifestation of Islams totalitarian political theocratic system. You need to stop looking at it through rose tinted western liberal / rational glasses, you have no hope of understanding it that way. I can't and won't do it for you, but I really wish you were able to put aside what you think you know and study it afresh, having thrown out the libtard stuff you've been brainwashed into believing. I know that's quite rude, but what can I say to someone who is determined to remain blinkered on this matter?

Who has been feeding your this BS? You are so gulible. You believe everything you're told--when it's what you want to hear. You are so brainwashed it is pitiful.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Every child in an American school has the right NOT to celebrate traditional American holidays.

However, every American school receiving taxpayer funding should celebrate traditional American holidays, no question. If someone is offended, they can go to chaperoned study in the cafeteria.

This is as ridiculous as it is wrong and ignorant.

Who and by what authority will decide what constitutes a 'traditional' American holiday – schools as government entities may not promote or endorse religion when it manifests as a 'traditional' American holiday; and as long as Christmas and Thanksgiving receive no official endorsement by government, including schools, students and teachers are at liberty to observe their 'traditional' American holidays, both secular and religious.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ. I don't want children exposed to the pseudo religion of a warmongerer and a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Everything else is fine by me. Sorry, and feel free to call me a bigot and whatever else. I won't mind.

"pseudo religion of a warmongerer", isn't Christianity a religion of war? Christianity teaches that you can sin and sin and sin, then go to church on a Sunday and everything will be okay again.

Just because people don't go to war in the name of Christianity like they do in Islam, doesn't mean that the religion doesn't play a big part.

If Dubya had been a Buddhist, would he have gone to war in Iraq? Probably not.

Fairy nuff.
But at the moment we are dealing with the Islamist threat, and harking back to Chritianities past is really not very useful. And before you say our former leaders were Christians, that was actually beside the point, they didn't act to further Christianity whatever nonsense issued forth from their silly mouths. We are facing jihad now, on a global scale, and that is all about the forceful submission and eradication of non Muslims. That's what we are dealing with, and that's where we need to focus. The jihadis adore all the handwringing libs who are undermining their own societies, cultures and doing half their job for them. Wake up and put aside the stuff that is dividing people who should be standing shoulder to shoulder, until later.

What is the threat right now?

An Islamic threat? Really? No. It's an extremist Islamic threat.

Harking back to the past IS USEFUL. Read my post 246 a few above this one about fundamental principles. History is a great way of testing your fundamental principles.

Facing Jihad, and doing it BADLY because people ignore the reasons for Jihad and are pretending (and I'm being serious) that it's the same as the Cold War. It's not. And if you make the wrong analysis of the problem, you'll make the wrong solution to the problem.

You really need to familiarise yourself with Islamic history, from its inception, and understand that Islam is not essentially a religion. Then you might be able to understand its aims better. Isis is just one of the most recent manifestation of Islams totalitarian political theocratic system. You need to stop looking at it through rose tinted western liberal / rational glasses, you have no hope of understanding it that way. I can't and won't do it for you, but I really wish you were able to put aside what you think you know and study it afresh, having thrown out the libtard stuff you've been brainwashed into believing. I know that's quite rude, but what can I say to someone who is determined to remain blinkered on this matter?

This is the sort of ignorance, bigotry, and hate that benefits only our enemies.

 

[Skull Pilot]

"Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school"

Wrong.

This is a lie.

Students and teachers are at liberty to use any word or words they so desire – including 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' with impunity.

The policy exists in an official capacity only, consistent with First Amendment jurisprudence, where the Establishment Clause prohibits government from promoting or endorsing religion.

How is saying Happy Thanksgiving endorsing or promoting any religion?

And for most people Christmas is a secular holiday

But if you really think these 2 federal holidays are promoting religion then you should mount a campaign to have these days removed from the federal holiday list

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You think ISIS represent all of Islam, I'm sorry for you. Maybe you need to meet some Muslims some time.

It doesn't matter if they represent "all of Islam". They and their fellow Islamist organizations are the current global face of Islam, and their support is growing rapidly within Islam.

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school"

Wrong.

This is a lie.

Students and teachers are at liberty to use any word or words they so desire – including 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' with impunity.

The policy exists in an official capacity only, consistent with First Amendment jurisprudence, where the Establishment Clause prohibits government from promoting or endorsing religion.

Liar thinks teachers and students can violate official school policy without retribution. On another thread he defends public school kids forced to write Allah is the one true God. What a good little Brownshirter.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ. I don't want children exposed to the pseudo religion of a warmongerer and a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Everything else is fine by me. Sorry, and feel free to call me a bigot and whatever else. I won't mind.

"pseudo religion of a warmongerer", isn't Christianity a religion of war? Christianity teaches that you can sin and sin and sin, then go to church on a Sunday and everything will be okay again.

Just because people don't go to war in the name of Christianity like they do in Islam, doesn't mean that the religion doesn't play a big part.

If Dubya had been a Buddhist, would he have gone to war in Iraq? Probably not.

Fairy nuff.
But at the moment we are dealing with the Islamist threat, and harking back to Chritianities past is really not very useful. And before you say our former leaders were Christians, that was actually beside the point, they didn't act to further Christianity whatever nonsense issued forth from their silly mouths. We are facing jihad now, on a global scale, and that is all about the forceful submission and eradication of non Muslims. That's what we are dealing with, and that's where we need to focus. The jihadis adore all the handwringing libs who are undermining their own societies, cultures and doing half their job for them. Wake up and put aside the stuff that is dividing people who should be standing shoulder to shoulder, until later.

What is the threat right now?

An Islamic threat? Really? No. It's an extremist Islamic threat.

Harking back to the past IS USEFUL. Read my post 246 a few above this one about fundamental principles. History is a great way of testing your fundamental principles.

Facing Jihad, and doing it BADLY because people ignore the reasons for Jihad and are pretending (and I'm being serious) that it's the same as the Cold War. It's not. And if you make the wrong analysis of the problem, you'll make the wrong solution to the problem.

You really need to familiarise yourself with Islamic history, from its inception, and understand that Islam is not essentially a religion. Then you might be able to understand its aims better. Isis is just one of the most recent manifestation of Islams totalitarian political theocratic system. You need to stop looking at it through rose tinted western liberal / rational glasses, you have no hope of understanding it that way. I can't and won't do it for you, but I really wish you were able to put aside what you think you know and study it afresh, having thrown out the libtard stuff you've been brainwashed into believing. I know that's quite rude, but what can I say to someone who is determined to remain blinkered on this matter?

This is the sort of ignorance, bigotry, and hate that benefits only our enemies.

Good parrot stooge.

 

[hortysir]

The first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Pilgrims, together with a tribe of indians, for giving thanks to god that they had just wiped out another tribe of Indians, men, women and children. I can see how native Americans would be less than enthusiastic about that.

Christmas is no longer a religious holiday. It is now just a commercialized, ridiculous holiday celebrating consumerism. Halloween started out as a christian event, but it is now so far removed, noone would know it.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if anyone celebrates either of them, or not. I don't.

The Spanish had a feast of Thanksgiving with the natives in St. Augustine, FL almost a hundred years before Plymouth Rock

 

[Vandalshandle]

The first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Pilgrims, together with a tribe of indians, for giving thanks to god that they had just wiped out another tribe of Indians, men, women and children. I can see how native Americans would be less than enthusiastic about that.

Christmas is no longer a religious holiday. It is now just a commercialized, ridiculous holiday celebrating consumerism. Halloween started out as a christian event, but it is now so far removed, noone would know it.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if anyone celebrates either of them, or not. I don't.

The Spanish had a feast of Thanksgiving with the natives in St. Augustine, FL almost a hundred years before Plymouth Rock

...and, yet, they failed to mention it to any English speaking people's for at least a couple of hundred years, which would suggest that our Thanksgiving holiday did not have any roots in the Spanish holiday.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You think ISIS represent all of Islam, I'm sorry for you. Maybe you need to meet some Muslims some time.

It doesn't matter if they represent "all of Islam". They and their fellow Islamist organizations are the current global face of Islam, and their support is growing rapidly within Islam.

They're the face of Islam because the media presents only this. Go to a Muslim country and they're NOT the face of Islam. Your ignorance doesn't dictate what Islam is or is not.

 

[Montrovant]

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

What I get from this post, in summary : "I only want those religious celebrations I like to be allowed in schools".

So you'd like your children to be exposed to a religion where its founder was a warrior who pillaged, enslaved, married a child and murdered people. Well I'm afraid I don't want that at all, and I make no apology for it.

In the Bible God kills all the first born sons of Egypt for the sins of their parents; kills nearly the entire world because he doesn't like the path it is taking; punishes people for the sins of their fathers, and grandfathers, etc.; it was founded with allowances for slavery and rape; according to many interpretations, God will condemn the majority of people to eternal suffering for not believing in him, because he is a jealous god. You want your children exposed to that?

I would guess that most religions have/had some terrible aspects to them, either in their traditions, their holy texts, their origins, or things done in their name. Radical Islam is certainly a problem in the world at the moment but you seem to think that all 1.5+ billion Muslims in the world are some sort of terrible jihadiis.

Please don't tell me what I seem to think. And I've been referring to the NT and Jesus all along. I think that's been pretty clear.

You'd rather not know what impression your words give, what message you are sending to others?

 

[Montrovant]

So you wouldn't want Islamic holidays and you have your reasons.

So you could see that others might have a problem with Christianity. Look at the Americas, taken over by Christians, Australia, New Zealand, A lot of Africa and other places too. Wasn't exactly done with flowers and niceness, was it? Read about the conquest of the Incas, very bloody.

Should there be religious schools? My view is no. Education is education.

Should religion be in schools? No. Holidays fine, make things nice, snowflakes, trees, decorations, etc, but Jesus and his fairy tales?? No.

I promise you I am aware of the history of the missionaries and what I consider to be a complete deviation from the New Testament and from Jesus' message, and I'm not exactly happy about it. But that is not the world we live in now. I tend to think about what is happening in the here and now, and that's how I decide what I want for children. I won't ever change my mind about it being better for children to be exposed to Jesus, than say, Mohammed, and these are brief periods in the school year. I really wish people would stop getting so worked up and trying to change everything, and I'm sick and tired of the attacks on Christianity when those doing the attacking give Islam a free pass. It's nauseating.

Mohammed isn't the world we live in now either.

I'm not sure whether you're wilfully wrong or just plain stupid wrong. You need to read the Quran and haditha. You need to understand it is impossible for Islam to have any kind of reformation. You need to understand that Mohammed was a warmonger and that all Muslims are compelled to emulate him. You need to understand that his teachings have no place in any school outside of the madrasah in Pakistan or Saudi.

I disagree. Religion is what people make of it. It's never going to be set in stone. I could read the Bible and say EXACTLY the same thing you're saying about Islam.

I've known plenty of Muslims, I've been to various Muslim countries, and they didn't all follow the Koran to the word and kill all infidels and so on. The Koran says a lot of stuff, like the Bible, that is just plain contradictory.

The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

"
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah ." 8:61

So, the Koran states that if your enemies are inclined to peace, you should too.

"
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." 8:69

This part basically reads like this. If you fuck with us, we will fuck you over. If you are nice to us, we will be nice back.

Do you think anyone disagrees with this? Do you not see that what the US did after 9/11 going after bin Laden in Afghanistan was exactly this, and most Americans agreed with this action, yet hate Muslims for having THE SAME ATTITUDE.

I truly can't be bothere to get into a sura war with you, and then put your suras into the actual context, and then look at how abrogation affects the 'decent' suras, but you still seem to be missing the point. Yes, religion can be what people make of it, but the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and can never, never be changed. They can have no reformation, and the problem of its followers deciding if and when to follow it properly can never go away. Isis are the real devout Muslims. And that's a fact. Read the words of leaders like Erdogan and the great many imans who keep telling us, if only we'd listen, there is only one Islam, and there is no moderate Islam, in fact the very idea of the moderate Muslim is deeply insulting and is an invention of the west. I urge you to read the Quran and maybe then you will understand why I do not want Islam in schools.

I don't understand you. Who said anything about changing the Quran? The Bible didn't have to change for many different sects and interpretations of it to come about.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You'd rather not know what impression your words give, what message you are sending to others?

No, she doesnt care to know how people like yo are twisting her words in your own mind.

No one can be held responsible for what every inebriated fool thinks about what they say.

 

[Montrovant]

You'd rather not know what impression your words give, what message you are sending to others?

No, she doesnt care to know how people like yo are twisting her words in your own mind.

No one can be held responsible for what every inebriated fool thinks about what they say.

But she does want you to speak for her, is that it?

 

[Tilly]

You'd rather not know what impression your words give, what message you are sending to others?

No, she doesnt care to know how people like yo are twisting her words in your own mind.

No one can be held responsible for what every inebriated fool thinks about what they say.

Thank you, JB. It's not my problem if someone has comprehension problems and then decides to tell me what I think. Lol. So many posters seem to resort to these tactics. It is truly LAME and not worth responding to

 

[JimBowie1958]

But she does want you to speak for her, is that it?

I am speaking for me; I am merely PROJECTING on to her like a libtard would do, lol.

 

[Tilly]

You'd rather not know what impression your words give, what message you are sending to others?

No, she doesnt care to know how people like yo are twisting her words in your own mind.

No one can be held responsible for what every inebriated fool thinks about what they say.

But she does want you to speak for her, is that it?

Seems he understood what I wrote and what you are attempting to do, so it's fine
Lol.

 

[Tilly]

I promise you I am aware of the history of the missionaries and what I consider to be a complete deviation from the New Testament and from Jesus' message, and I'm not exactly happy about it. But that is not the world we live in now. I tend to think about what is happening in the here and now, and that's how I decide what I want for children. I won't ever change my mind about it being better for children to be exposed to Jesus, than say, Mohammed, and these are brief periods in the school year. I really wish people would stop getting so worked up and trying to change everything, and I'm sick and tired of the attacks on Christianity when those doing the attacking give Islam a free pass. It's nauseating.

Mohammed isn't the world we live in now either.

I'm not sure whether you're wilfully wrong or just plain stupid wrong. You need to read the Quran and haditha. You need to understand it is impossible for Islam to have any kind of reformation. You need to understand that Mohammed was a warmonger and that all Muslims are compelled to emulate him. You need to understand that his teachings have no place in any school outside of the madrasah in Pakistan or Saudi.

I disagree. Religion is what people make of it. It's never going to be set in stone. I could read the Bible and say EXACTLY the same thing you're saying about Islam.

I've known plenty of Muslims, I've been to various Muslim countries, and they didn't all follow the Koran to the word and kill all infidels and so on. The Koran says a lot of stuff, like the Bible, that is just plain contradictory.

The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

"
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah ." 8:61

So, the Koran states that if your enemies are inclined to peace, you should too.

"
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." 8:69

This part basically reads like this. If you fuck with us, we will fuck you over. If you are nice to us, we will be nice back.

Do you think anyone disagrees with this? Do you not see that what the US did after 9/11 going after bin Laden in Afghanistan was exactly this, and most Americans agreed with this action, yet hate Muslims for having THE SAME ATTITUDE.

I truly can't be bothere to get into a sura war with you, and then put your suras into the actual context, and then look at how abrogation affects the 'decent' suras, but you still seem to be missing the point. Yes, religion can be what people make of it, but the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and can never, never be changed. They can have no reformation, and the problem of its followers deciding if and when to follow it properly can never go away. Isis are the real devout Muslims. And that's a fact. Read the words of leaders like Erdogan and the great many imans who keep telling us, if only we'd listen, there is only one Islam, and there is no moderate Islam, in fact the very idea of the moderate Muslim is deeply insulting and is an invention of the west. I urge you to read the Quran and maybe then you will understand why I do not want Islam in schools.

I don't understand you.

Never mind