Texas woman guns down would be burgler

my prayers to the friends and family, and the community
feeling the loss and effects of this tragic shooting death.

except that he was a former marine/current firefighter

Elderly Texas Woman Second Amendments Firefighter She Mistook for a Burglar
It was at this point that two large pieces of lead crashed through the door from the inside, striking Keen and knocking him backward. The neighbor claims she warned the “intruder” that she had a gun — nobody will ever know if a word was spoken, because Keen was pronounced dead at the hospital. She called 911 after opening the door and recognizing the body staining the wood of her suburban front porch.

There was no evidence of any breakage associated with the attempted entry. All evidence indicates that Keen used nothing more than his key on the door — which is more evidence than there is that Keen received any warning before getting shot in the chest.

discuss...

With most cases I read about, most can be prevented by making sure armed citizens
take the same oath and training to follow set procedures as police do.

If you can imagine this situation with a trained officer, what would the officer do differently?

That is what the citizens should be trained to do as well.

As for elderly people who get scared and may react without thinking,
I can't guess if training would have prevented this knee jerk reaction to shoot first
and ask questions later.

Proper training on AGREED PROCEDURES (on how to apprehend a possible suspect or how to respond to an arrest or confrontation) may not have prevented death in this case,
but most cases it could. Maybe if she had someone else living with her, this could have been prevented; but with her living alone, I think this was her natural reaction.

This reminds me of the case of the drunk Scottish man who knocked on the wrong door and got shot to death. In general, I just would not recommend letting drunk people run around unsupervised. too much could go wrong. From my own experience, I stayed up almost all night with a friend I was afraid could choke on his own vomit if he passed out. I didn't dare let him out of my sight, and was prepared to take him to the hospital if he poisoned himself with too much alcohol. I also may not have trusted this guy not to collapse, or get robbed by someone, or die of some other accident if he was that trashed.

I do support set procedures and training for citizens, and cases like this remind me we lose people every day that we don't set up an agreed process for neighborhoods to follow. Some cases like this may still happen, but even getting to know your neighbors makes a difference in catching when someone is really intruding and not from the neighborhood. And if people are too unstable, cannot follow instructions and are unsafe with weapons, these people can be screened out if the entire neighborhood is trained on the procedures to follow with police and law enforcement. So it can prevent a lot more problems than just shooting deaths like this one. My condolences again to all who are grieving, and may we all become more united on solutions to prevent such tragedies in the future.
 
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except that he was a former marine/current firefighter

Elderly Texas Woman Second Amendments Firefighter She Mistook for a Burglar
It was at this point that two large pieces of lead crashed through the door from the inside, striking Keen and knocking him backward. The neighbor claims she warned the “intruder” that she had a gun — nobody will ever know if a word was spoken, because Keen was pronounced dead at the hospital. She called 911 after opening the door and recognizing the body staining the wood of her suburban front porch.

There was no evidence of any breakage associated with the attempted entry. All evidence indicates that Keen used nothing more than his key on the door — which is more evidence than there is that Keen received any warning before getting shot in the chest.

discuss...

so what really happened was some drunk guy was trying to break into her house. he just happened to be a firefighter and ex marine. bottom line, he was drunk, he was attempting to enter her house, he was at fault.
 
My mama knows how to dial 911

That's good. Then the homicide unit will know where to start looking for her killer.

If this incident had happened to my mother, the police would have arrived and the drunk would spend the night in jail

But thanks to our second amendment rights we can shoot first and ask questions later
thanks to the gun lobby (representing manufacturers) and ALEC
Indeed. A confluence of events that starts with a locked door, and ends with a Texan who would rather kill a neighbor through a locked door than fire a warning shot through its corner. Or not fire at all…because locked door. But, she had the legal right in Texas, and there are fortunately no witnesses left to testify on his behalf — so it’s all okay.
George Zimmerman would approve.

What a dumb fucking source. Whiny bastards. She had the right to shoot him. I blame him and his dumb ass friends for allowing him to go home completely drunk. WHY is a married man going out and getting shit faced when he has a wife at home? Maybe its just me because I don't do that...sad story all around but leave it to fucking anti gun rights assholes to make it a political thing.

he's a ..... errr.....was a former marine. You ever heard of PTSD? I heard a lot about it when I was at the VA getting unrelated services. Some people drink to deal w/ it. Drinking to deal w/ it is sometimes subconscious.

what do you have to say now? :neutral:

and some drink to just have fun with friends, like on st. paddies day...which he was out with friends getting smashed. IOW....not PTSD

what do you have to say now?

Stop yurting in my thread. :eusa_hand: You are making the ASSUMPTION that just because it was St Paddies day that the former (now deceased) marine couldn't have had PTSD? Is that what you're implying?
 
That's good. Then the homicide unit will know where to start looking for her killer.

If this incident had happened to my mother, the police would have arrived and the drunk would spend the night in jail

But thanks to our second amendment rights we can shoot first and ask questions later
thanks to the gun lobby (representing manufacturers) and ALEC
he's a ..... errr.....was a former marine. You ever heard of PTSD? I heard a lot about it when I was at the VA getting unrelated services. Some people drink to deal w/ it. Drinking to deal w/ it is sometimes subconscious.

what do you have to say now? :neutral:

and some drink to just have fun with friends, like on st. paddies day...which he was out with friends getting smashed. IOW....not PTSD

what do you have to say now?

Stop yurting in my thread. :eusa_hand: You are making the ASSUMPTION that just because it was St Paddies day that the former (now deceased) marine couldn't have had PTSD? Is that what you're implying?

no, i'm stating quite frankly that your OPINION may not be true or even remotely valid based on what the article said. you negated his drunkeness by claiming it might be PTSD, i'm stating it likely wasn't given the facts presented.

just a counter opinion to yours.

i do like how you get pissy when anyone counters you. apparently that is now "yurting" and i take that quite proudly because i know i caused you to think but you're too stubborn to consider anyone else's opinion.
 
If this incident had happened to my mother, the police would have arrived and the drunk would spend the night in jail

But thanks to our second amendment rights we can shoot first and ask questions later
thanks to the gun lobby (representing manufacturers) and ALEC
and some drink to just have fun with friends, like on st. paddies day...which he was out with friends getting smashed. IOW....not PTSD

what do you have to say now?

Stop yurting in my thread. :eusa_hand: You are making the ASSUMPTION that just because it was St Paddies day that the former (now deceased) marine couldn't have had PTSD? Is that what you're implying?

no, i'm stating quite frankly that your OPINION may not be true or even remotely valid based on what the article said. you negated his drunkeness by claiming it might be PTSD, i'm stating it likely wasn't given the facts presented.

just a counter opinion to yours.

i do like how you get pissy when anyone counters you. apparently that is now "yurting" and i take that quite proudly because i know i caused you to think but you're too stubborn to consider anyone else's opinion.

:eusa_hand: I said people who have PTSD drink to help them forget, even if only temporarily.
 
except that he was a former marine/current firefighter

Elderly Texas Woman Second Amendments Firefighter She Mistook for a Burglar
It was at this point that two large pieces of lead crashed through the door from the inside, striking Keen and knocking him backward. The neighbor claims she warned the “intruder” that she had a gun — nobody will ever know if a word was spoken, because Keen was pronounced dead at the hospital. She called 911 after opening the door and recognizing the body staining the wood of her suburban front porch.

There was no evidence of any breakage associated with the attempted entry. All evidence indicates that Keen used nothing more than his key on the door — which is more evidence than there is that Keen received any warning before getting shot in the chest.
discuss...

Moral: Never try to break into a house while drunk.
 
To many folks using guns to solve everyday dilemmas...are laws like "stand ur ground" and easy access to guns really making us safer...or more endangered?


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If he hadn't been falling down drunk he would still be alive. Not sure why you think guns are to blame here, but no one ever claimed you had a brain.
 
The guy was drunk as a skunk, he's on the front porch of some old lady, rattling her doorknob and making enough noise to wake the dead. If she warned him, he probably didn't take any notice because he was half bloody brain dead anyway.

The old lady shot him.

Now, should she have shot him when he was outside the house, having not yet entered? Probably not. But she's old, feeling vulnerable, and made what she believed to be the right decision. She should have called the cops, yes, but the guy shouldn't have been on her front porch.

Bloke shouldn't have gotten smashed.



A capital offense if I have ever hear one....

Now, I finally have a plan on how to deal with all those pesky trick or treaters on Halloween.

Noomi is completely and totally against guns, yet she still thinks the blame lies on the guy that as trying to open the wrong door.
 
Indeed. A confluence of events that starts with a locked door, and ends with a Texan who would rather kill a neighbor through a locked door than fire a warning shot through its corner. Or not fire at all…because locked door. But, she had the legal right in Texas, and there are fortunately no witnesses left to testify on his behalf — so it’s all okay.
George Zimmerman would approve.

What a dumb fucking source. Whiny bastards. She had the right to shoot him. I blame him and his dumb ass friends for allowing him to go home completely drunk. WHY is a married man going out and getting shit faced when he has a wife at home? Maybe its just me because I don't do that...sad story all around but leave it to fucking anti gun rights assholes to make it a political thing.

Unlike you, I can't see through a door. I also cannot tell where the shots she fired went. It is entirely possible she fired off to the side, and still hit the drunk.
 
Don't forget...if she fired a warning shot and didn't kill him...she could go to jail for 30 years like that Woman who shot in the air to scare off her abusive husband ...It appears that in Texas and Florida...ur only in trouble if u let 'em live...


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What the fuck are you blithering about?
 
To many folks using guns to solve everyday dilemmas...are laws like "stand ur ground" and easy access to guns really making us safer...or more endangered?


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To your question. I don't think so. I think its more of the fact that Americans are realizing our culture, and its enabling government, have bred a society where crime is not seen in the same light as it was years ago. Now criminals are more often painted as the victim thus, there are no consequences to deter crime. So you get more....

Sure, years ago someone trying to open your front door garnered pause... In today's society, not so much

Just my 2 cents

-Geaux

Crime has been on a download slide over the last couple of decades in most of America. That is because of a highly trained and professional police force.

Conservatives have been trying to reverse that trend by breaking the Police Unions, downsizing various forces, instilling fear in citizens and arming them. They are hoping to create a sense that everyone is on their own and needs to be holding a gun.

Vigilantism has NEVER worked. And it won't work now.

Prove it.
 
people he was drinking for st paddys day...he took a cab home...he made the typical drunk mistake of going to the wrong house....yall act like this is something new to yall...if she was so scared why didnt she call 911 first?

Because the last time she called it took them 3 hours to show up?
 
Crime has been on a download slide over the last couple of decades in most of America. That is because of a highly trained and professional police force.

Conservatives have been trying to reverse that trend by breaking the Police Unions, downsizing various forces, instilling fear in citizens and arming them. They are hoping to create a sense that everyone is on their own and needs to be holding a gun.

Vigilantism has NEVER worked. And it won't work now.

Well you are on your own Sallow as the police have no legal obligation to come to your aid.
The local LEO situations are a state/city issue. Take a look at Cali. Liberal a government as they come yet Moonbeam is releasing prisoners, reducing State troopers. The release of these criminals is having negative impact relative to crime in my community

-Geaux

In New York?

Yeah..they are under a legal obligation to come to the aid of any citizen in distress.

They carry their weapons 24/7 just because of that.

Having civilians armed and dispensing "Justice" has been tried before and in this country.

It didn't work then..it won't work now.

They are not.

City says cops had no duty to protect subway hero who subdued killer | New York Post
 
Jeez...67 is not "elderly" these days, and no excuse for shooting to kill without ascertaining that there's a real threat...


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If a person is trying to enter your home in the middle of the night it is prudent to assume his intentions are not benign.

Maybe this stew bum should have been at AA instead of in the bars

Nice.

A Marine, a fire fighter but you relegate him to a "stew bum".

At what point do you guys say, "Hey..using a gun like that was wrong?"

So far:

Shooting fleeing burglars is okay.
Shooting a kid going home is okay.
Shooting a kid with loud music is okay.
Shooting a guy throwing popcorn at you is okay.

The only thing not okay is a Black American Woman firing a gun in the air to dissuade her abusive ex-husband from killing her is not okay.

Seriously.

I love how you lie about everything.
 
To many folks using guns to solve everyday dilemmas...are laws like "stand ur ground" and easy access to guns really making us safer...or more endangered?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

To your question. I don't think so. I think its more of the fact that Americans are realizing our culture, and its enabling government, have bred a society where crime is not seen in the same light as it was years ago. Now criminals are more often painted as the victim thus, there are no consequences to deter crime. So you get more....

Sure, years ago someone trying to open your front door garnered pause... In today's society, not so much

Just my 2 cents

-Geaux

Dude, we lock up 2 million people, while most other industrial democracies lock up less than 100K.

We are one of the last countries that still imposed the barbarism of the Death Penalty.

and we have a gun industry that peddles guns to Granny Trigger who shoots a firefighter who was trying to help her.

So it begs the questions- If prisons and guns are making us safer, why are we so unsafe with all the prisons and guns we have?
 
thanks to the gun lobby (representing manufacturers) and ALEC


Stop yurting in my thread. :eusa_hand: You are making the ASSUMPTION that just because it was St Paddies day that the former (now deceased) marine couldn't have had PTSD? Is that what you're implying?

no, i'm stating quite frankly that your OPINION may not be true or even remotely valid based on what the article said. you negated his drunkeness by claiming it might be PTSD, i'm stating it likely wasn't given the facts presented.

just a counter opinion to yours.

i do like how you get pissy when anyone counters you. apparently that is now "yurting" and i take that quite proudly because i know i caused you to think but you're too stubborn to consider anyone else's opinion.

:eusa_hand: I said people who have PTSD drink to help them forget, even if only temporarily.

no dipshit. seriously, you're becoming worse than jakestarkey at telling the truth. let us review what you said:

he's a ..... errr.....was a former marine. You ever heard of PTSD? I heard a lot about it when I was at the VA getting unrelated services. Some people drink to deal w/ it. Drinking to deal w/ it is sometimes subconscious.

you clearly implied it could be from ptsd. you offered an opinion and i offered a counter and you're still whiny like a pissy little boy about it.

do you lotion every hour, because your skin is very thin.
 
except that he was a former marine/current firefighter

Elderly Texas Woman Second Amendments Firefighter She Mistook for a Burglar
It was at this point that two large pieces of lead crashed through the door from the inside, striking Keen and knocking him backward. The neighbor claims she warned the “intruder” that she had a gun — nobody will ever know if a word was spoken, because Keen was pronounced dead at the hospital. She called 911 after opening the door and recognizing the body staining the wood of her suburban front porch.

There was no evidence of any breakage associated with the attempted entry. All evidence indicates that Keen used nothing more than his key on the door — which is more evidence than there is that Keen received any warning before getting shot in the chest.
discuss...

Moral: Never try to break into a house while drunk.

he wasn't "trying" to break in.

imo, this is a tragic event. if you are going to own a gun, be responsible with it. if you are going to be scared at the slightest noise (not saying that happened here) then don't own a gun if you will fire at the slightest noise. it should have been clear to her that he wasn't getting the in house. she had time to hear him, grab her gun and allegedly, verbally warn him. she could have picked up a phone along the way, dialed the police, neighbor, whomever....or fired a warning shot.

the law questions what a reasonably person would do and that varies among the states and even counties. it is a question that can only be answered by a trier of fact. from what i've read, she had no idea it was her neighbor. but to be that scared, i don't know, doesn't seem reasonable to me. but then again, i'm not on the jury, if there ever is one.
 

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