The Aftermath of the Trial

[Pop23]

Thank you for saying in one short sentence what the people here are so determined not to understand.

Considering the intransigent irrationality of so many people who are so certain that they know what happened in this incident -- despite the fact that they cannot know that -- I have been inspired to start a thread in the Law Forum :

The Credibility of George Zimmerman

Feel free to comment there -- if you dare.

.

You might want to start with a little research about memory and eye witness testimony in general. To save people some trouble I will give a brief summery -- it sucks.

It's even worse for people WHO WERE NOT THERE!

 

[PMZ]

Considering the intransigent irrationality of so many people who are so certain that they know what happened in this incident -- despite the fact that they cannot know that -- I have been inspired to start a thread in the Law Forum :

The Credibility of George Zimmerman

Feel free to comment there -- if you dare.

.

You might want to start with a little research about memory and eye witness testimony in general. To save people some trouble I will give a brief summery -- it sucks.

It's even worse for people WHO WERE NOT THERE!

It's even worse for people who were there but left in a body bag.

 

[Pop23]

Is it grasping at the wind to want to hold our media accountable for their actions? They went quite a bit out of their way to distort the facts. They manipulated us. Lied to us. Pitted us against one another. They are the ones that dumped gas on the fire. It was their goal to play us like fools. And, they mostly suceeded.

I believe that they reported the facts as they were revealed. Many here are grasping at what they wish was true. That George Zimmerman's testimony was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, rather than the well developed and highly practiced play that it was, available to the trial because TM wasn't.

If FL had decided not to prosecute, their reputation as a red neck state would have been forever sealed. Probably below that of Texas. This outcome is only a little better.

America has moved on from frontier justice. Florida, not so much, yet.

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

 

[jon_berzerk]

Is it grasping at the wind to want to hold our media accountable for their actions? They went quite a bit out of their way to distort the facts. They manipulated us. Lied to us. Pitted us against one another. They are the ones that dumped gas on the fire. It was their goal to play us like fools. And, they mostly suceeded.

I believe that they reported the facts as they were revealed. Many here are grasping at what they wish was true. That George Zimmerman's testimony was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, rather than the well developed and highly practiced play that it was, available to the trial because TM wasn't.

If FL had decided not to prosecute, their reputation as a red neck state would have been forever sealed. Probably below that of Texas. This outcome is only a little better.

America has moved on from frontier justice. Florida, not so much, yet.

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

out here broken nose jack

got first hand knowledge of how the frontier justice system worked

acquitted in his first trial

the folks unhappy about the verdict

retried him in Yankton under the grounds that double jeopardy did not apply

found guilty in a couple of hours

and holds the title of being

the first person executed in dakota territory by the feds

 

[PMZ]

Is it grasping at the wind to want to hold our media accountable for their actions? They went quite a bit out of their way to distort the facts. They manipulated us. Lied to us. Pitted us against one another. They are the ones that dumped gas on the fire. It was their goal to play us like fools. And, they mostly suceeded.

I believe that they reported the facts as they were revealed. Many here are grasping at what they wish was true. That George Zimmerman's testimony was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, rather than the well developed and highly practiced play that it was, available to the trial because TM wasn't.

If FL had decided not to prosecute, their reputation as a red neck state would have been forever sealed. Probably below that of Texas. This outcome is only a little better.

America has moved on from frontier justice. Florida, not so much, yet.

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

I don't read any "Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts" from those who recognize that our system is imperfect and allowed GZ to get away with the murder that he wanted when he said what he did about "they" always getting away with it". We can only assume "it" to be a black kid walking through a white neighborhood with a hoodie on.

GZ merely showed the country the truth about red neck states. Don't leave witnesses and juries will fall for whatever you tell them.

 

[PMZ]

Is it grasping at the wind to want to hold our media accountable for their actions? They went quite a bit out of their way to distort the facts. They manipulated us. Lied to us. Pitted us against one another. They are the ones that dumped gas on the fire. It was their goal to play us like fools. And, they mostly suceeded.

(My bold)

The press is given Constitutional privilege, on the theory that a free press is necessary. The MSM has always been problematic, they're typically owned by one side or the other. The trend since the '60s of media consolidation & the accompanying urge to make all assets produce money, has been v. bad for the news. Just like People magazine & USA Today, all corporate assets must contribute to the bottom line.

Thus Fox & their bastard step-relations are entertainment venues first, with good income stats first, & Devil take the hindmost.

The moral is that the criminal courts function in the courts, & nowhere else. You might as well look to McDonald's to give you balanced, long-term healthy food for you & yours. That's not what they're about, they're about making a profit for their shareholders. So too the MSM - think of it as fast news, & don't expect anything except the occasional shot of cleavage & cute animals. & now this ...

The problem is that democracy depends on an informed electorate, that depends on all media reporting the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but, but they are businesses following the one rule of business, make more money regardless of the cost to others.

Undereducated people also prefer having their opinions reinforced over being informed.

What's at stake now is the future of democracy. Can it be sustained?

 

[PMZ]

What if democracy proves unsustainable because of the above? Is there an alternative that also offers freedom? If there is, I haven't seen it demonstrated in the world. If the people aren't capable of making informed choices about government, who's left? Business? The Military? The oft rumored but never seen benevolent dictator? Computers?

Will we go down in history as the first generation of Americans who were not willing to pay the price of freedom?

 

[Pop23]

You might want to start with a little research about memory and eye witness testimony in general. To save people some trouble I will give a brief summery -- it sucks.

It's even worse for people WHO WERE NOT THERE!

It's even worse for people who were there but left in a body bag.

The State gave his side representation with almost unlimited power.

You Fail

 

[Pop23]

What if democracy proves unsustainable because of the above? Is there an alternative that also offers freedom? If there is, I haven't seen it demonstrated in the world. If the people aren't capable of making informed choices about government, who's left? Business? The Military? The oft rumored but never seen benevolent dictator? Computers?

Will we go down in history as the first generation of Americans who were not willing to pay the price of freedom?

Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner

We ain't that.

 

[hoosier88]

...

...

The problem is that democracy depends on an informed electorate, that depends on all media reporting the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but, but they are businesses following the one rule of business, make more money regardless of the cost to others.

Undereducated people also prefer having their opinions reinforced over being informed.

What's at stake now is the future of democracy. Can it be sustained?

(My bold)

Yup, the framers thought that we would remain a serious people - or that @ least our political & military & religious leaders & the press would. As long as we had bad examples (from the World) in front of us & paid attention, the republic could be sustained. From the 1920s or so on, however, popular culture is increasingly frivolous.

It's as if the most trivial features of the Gilded Age became the bar for behavior. Road rage, people nearly surgically attached to their cell phones, a general lack of face-to-face connection in favor of electronic connections (the premise of You've got mail, the movie). An odd desire to be eternally young, as if the young of any culture ever made sensible choices about the long term. & don't get me started on the elevation of show biz & personalities to near icon status.

Why should we idolize people who can't figure out how to work a can opener? Who don't know their own SSN? It's symptomatic, but it's not a good symptom. People with real expertise - doctors, lawyers, technicians, administrators, bureaucrats - help keep society running. Show biz types merely hog the limelight. If they have some cathartic effect on society @ large, well & good. But how much catharsis does a society need? & when was the last time you saw one of these emotive panjandrums in a worthy role?

Yah, we're in trouble. & I for one don't see a groundswell of citizen concern, demanding a correction to the popular culture's values. I think we should demand quality, for one. That would put a stop to a lot of schlocky goods in the public marketplace of ideas. Beyond that, well, someone will have to come up with more ideas ...

 

[Pop23]

I believe that they reported the facts as they were revealed. Many here are grasping at what they wish was true. That George Zimmerman's testimony was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, rather than the well developed and highly practiced play that it was, available to the trial because TM wasn't.

If FL had decided not to prosecute, their reputation as a red neck state would have been forever sealed. Probably below that of Texas. This outcome is only a little better.

America has moved on from frontier justice. Florida, not so much, yet.

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

I don't read any "Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts" from those who recognize that our system is imperfect and allowed GZ to get away with the murder that he wanted when he said what he did about "they" always getting away with it". We can only assume "it" to be a black kid walking through a white neighborhood with a hoodie on.

GZ merely showed the country the truth about red neck states. Don't leave witnesses and juries will fall for whatever you tell them.

Epic, they = blacks

No wonder we can't move forward

They may mean thieves. They may mean teans. They may mean hoods. They may mean gang members. They may mean skateboarders.

Quit attempting to read minds and look at the facts instead of trying to flame a fire that's already been put out.

 

[PMZ]

It's even worse for people WHO WERE NOT THERE!

It's even worse for people who were there but left in a body bag.

The State gave his side representation with almost unlimited power.

You Fail

Nobody represents dead people. For one thing, dead people are not charged with criminal behavior. Only live people are.

GZ told a story that implied TM engaged in criminal behavior as it was the only way for him to avoid a criminal conviction. Imagine that. A criminal professing innocence. First time in history. We'll never know what TM's testimony would have been. A coincidence? I think not.

 

[Oldstyle]

I believe that they reported the facts as they were revealed. Many here are grasping at what they wish was true. That George Zimmerman's testimony was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, rather than the well developed and highly practiced play that it was, available to the trial because TM wasn't.

If FL had decided not to prosecute, their reputation as a red neck state would have been forever sealed. Probably below that of Texas. This outcome is only a little better.

America has moved on from frontier justice. Florida, not so much, yet.

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

I don't read any "Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts" from those who recognize that our system is imperfect and allowed GZ to get away with the murder that he wanted when he said what he did about "they" always getting away with it". We can only assume "it" to be a black kid walking through a white neighborhood with a hoodie on.

GZ merely showed the country the truth about red neck states. Don't leave witnesses and juries will fall for whatever you tell them.

Your ignorance about Florida is showing, PMZ. It's hardly a "red neck" State. 20% of the people who live here are Hispanic. 18% are Black. A huge demographic are whites that have retired or migrated here from northern States and are no more "Crackers" than George Zimmerman was. Barack Obama CARRIED Florida in the last election! How does that happen in a "red neck" State? Instead of posting drivel like this? Why don't you take a good long look at the EVIDENCE that was presented at that trial and then tell me why that pathetic case was ever brought to trial?

 

[PMZ]

What if democracy proves unsustainable because of the above? Is there an alternative that also offers freedom? If there is, I haven't seen it demonstrated in the world. If the people aren't capable of making informed choices about government, who's left? Business? The Military? The oft rumored but never seen benevolent dictator? Computers?

Will we go down in history as the first generation of Americans who were not willing to pay the price of freedom?

Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner

We ain't that.

The US is that. What we don't know is what you are.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's even worse for people who were there but left in a body bag.

The State gave his side representation with almost unlimited power.

You Fail

Nobody represents dead people. For one thing, dead people are not charged with criminal behavior. Only live people are.

What do you think a Prosecution's role is, PMZ? They represent dead people all the time. If someone is killed and has no family do you think their death isn't investigated and if a crime is seen...prosecuted by the State? That's what they DO!

 

[PMZ]

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

I don't read any "Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts" from those who recognize that our system is imperfect and allowed GZ to get away with the murder that he wanted when he said what he did about "they" always getting away with it". We can only assume "it" to be a black kid walking through a white neighborhood with a hoodie on.

GZ merely showed the country the truth about red neck states. Don't leave witnesses and juries will fall for whatever you tell them.

Your ignorance about Florida is showing, PMZ. It's hardly a "red neck" State. 20% of the people who live here are Hispanic. 18% are Black. A huge demographic are whites that have retired or migrated here from northern States and are no more "Crackers" than George Zimmerman was. Barack Obama CARRIED Florida in the last election! How does that happen in a "red neck" State? Instead of posting drivel like this? Why don't you take a good long look at the EVIDENCE that was presented at that trial and then tell me why that pathetic case was ever brought to trial?

You're talking about the coasts. I'm talking about the interior. It's as redneck as Texas.

 

[Pop23]

It's even worse for people who were there but left in a body bag.

The State gave his side representation with almost unlimited power.

You Fail

Nobody represents dead people. For one thing, dead people are not charged with criminal behavior. Only live people are.

GZ told a story that implied TM engaged in criminal behavior as it was the only way for him to avoid a criminal conviction. Imagine that. A criminal professing innocence. First time in history. We'll never know what TM's testimony would have been. A coincidence? I think not.

I did not say they represent him. I said the State, with INCREDIBLE resources represented his side. The issue was if Zimmerman killed Martin in an effort to defend himself, self defense. The jury was given the duty to determine a verdict on facts, not fantasy.

The issue originally raised was frontier justice as if Zimmerman acted in that manner. The jury found he had not, that he acted in self defense. The jury found he had. NOW many on here are acting as a Kangaroo court.

Kangaroo courts are frontier justice, those advocating such are the real rednecks

 

[PMZ]

The State gave his side representation with almost unlimited power.

You Fail

Nobody represents dead people. For one thing, dead people are not charged with criminal behavior. Only live people are.

What do you think a Prosecution's role is, PMZ? They represent dead people all the time. If someone is killed and has no family do you think their death isn't investigated and if a crime is seen...prosecuted by the State? That's what they DO!

The prosecution's job is not to try the victim. That is apparently what many here think the public's job is. A murdered victim's only input is the evidence. How do you think that this trial would have come out if GZ was not allowed any testimony?

 

[PMZ]

The State gave his side representation with almost unlimited power.

You Fail

Nobody represents dead people. For one thing, dead people are not charged with criminal behavior. Only live people are.

GZ told a story that implied TM engaged in criminal behavior as it was the only way for him to avoid a criminal conviction. Imagine that. A criminal professing innocence. First time in history. We'll never know what TM's testimony would have been. A coincidence? I think not.

I did not say they represent him. I said the State, with INCREDIBLE resources represented his side. The issue was if Zimmerman killed Martin in an effort to defend himself, self defense. The jury was given the duty to determine a verdict on facts, not fantasy.

The issue originally raised was frontier justice as if Zimmerman acted in that manner. The jury found he had not, that he acted in self defense. The jury found he had. NOW many on here are acting as a Kangaroo court.

Kangaroo courts are frontier justice, those advocating such are the real rednecks

The prosecution's "INCREDIBLE resources" consisted of almost no evidence because the only reliable eye witness was dead. GZ was as tainted a witness as there is but the only one able to say what happened. And what he said is that it was TM's fault.

What would TM have said if GZ had not prevented him from testifying?

 

[PMZ]

Absolutely the ironic thread of the century

Frontier justice is exactly what the TM supporters advocate

Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts

Sweet

I don't read any "Screw the court system and replace it with Kangaroo courts" from those who recognize that our system is imperfect and allowed GZ to get away with the murder that he wanted when he said what he did about "they" always getting away with it". We can only assume "it" to be a black kid walking through a white neighborhood with a hoodie on.

GZ merely showed the country the truth about red neck states. Don't leave witnesses and juries will fall for whatever you tell them.

Epic, they = blacks

No wonder we can't move forward

They may mean thieves. They may mean teans. They may mean hoods. They may mean gang members. They may mean skateboarders.

Quit attempting to read minds and look at the facts instead of trying to flame a fire that's already been put out.

Sounds like you believe that "blacks, thieves, teens, hoods, gang members, and skateboarders" all deserve summary execution.