The American Left should stop and smell the roses

[jillian]

The world has seen this before.

PC is a disease, but so is humanity.

only the liberscum side of humanity

only to wackjobs like you.

 

[jillian]

if not, i'd suggest you've gone about this wrong.

Wrong? Meh. I always offer my little opinions without personal insults and name-calling. That puts me in the minority here, so I'm usually comfortable with my approach.

.

and if someone engages me politely, they get a polite response. if they run around the board like the above iwackadoodle, insulting ore than half the population of the country, calling our first lady disgusting names (and yes, i always defended laura bush when people did that) or likening her and the president to simians, i don't feel any need to do anything but make them look stupid.

but you said earlier, mac that in real life, you engage bigots and try to change their minds.

why don't you do that here?

 

[Mac1958]

if not, i'd suggest you've gone about this wrong.

Wrong? Meh. I always offer my little opinions without personal insults and name-calling. That puts me in the minority here, so I'm usually comfortable with my approach.

.

and if someone engages me politely, they get a polite response. if they run around the board like the above iwackadoodle, insulting ore than half the population of the country, then i don't feel any need to do anything but make them look stupid.

but you said earlier, mac that in real life, you engage bigots and try to change their minds.

why don't you do that here?

Oh hell, I figured out a long time ago that this place isn't real life. For me it's more of an amateur psychological / sociological / anthropological study. A bunch of caricatures sliding around, playing bumper cars with each other. Once in a while I can squeeze an honest answer out of some folks, and I'll consider that a victory.

It's much easier to have an honest conversation in real life, where we can look in each other's eyes and get a better glimpse into what's actually going on. People are far more likely, at least in my opinion, to be honest when you're face to face. They're also far less likely to launch the third-grade name-calling and insults that we see here. The anonymity of the internet certainly makes folks brave.

I think I tried a few times early on, but it's a waste of time here.

.

 

[kaz]

What happened? Did you feel compelled to call someone a bad name and then chickened out? Next time don't be afraid, strike a blow for the those who wish to be a total asshole without consequence. Seriously, every society has unwritten rules of what constitutes acceptable behavior, might as well be bitching about the weather and blaming it on the weatherman.

Was it your intent to prove the OP's point or did you not get it when you did?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Wrong? Meh. I always offer my little opinions without personal insults and name-calling. That puts me in the minority here, so I'm usually comfortable with my approach.

.

and if someone engages me politely, they get a polite response. if they run around the board like the above iwackadoodle, insulting ore than half the population of the country, then i don't feel any need to do anything but make them look stupid.

but you said earlier, mac that in real life, you engage bigots and try to change their minds.

why don't you do that here?

Oh hell, I figured out a long time ago that this place isn't real life. For me it's more of an amateur psychological / sociological / anthropological study. A bunch of caricatures sliding around, playing bumper cars with each other. Once in a while I can squeeze an honest answer out of some folks, and I'll consider that a victory.

It's much easier to have an honest conversation in real life, where we can look in each other's eyes and get a better glimpse into what's actually going on. People are far more likely, at least in my opinion, to be honest when you're face to face. They're also far less likely to launch the third-grade name-calling and insults that we see here. The anonymity of the internet certainly makes folks brave.

I think I tried a few times early on, but it's a waste of time here.

.

Does that mean that all of your discussions here are not honest?

You don't seem to have a problem with engaging people on that PC issue.

Odd.

You don't think it is valuable to try and change the hearts and minds of bigots.....but you have all day to change the hearts and minds of those of us us oppose bigotry. Very odd.

 

[kaz]

The American Left should stop and smell the roses

As I read the various PC-related threads and posts here, I can't help but wonder why the PC Police continues with all the anger and name-calling and personal insults.

Holy crap folks, you've won. Have fun with it.

What? This country is an abysmal failure. Life is unlivable here. Do you not realize that gay couples cannot go everywhere government and get validation for their relationship? It's inhumane. People have to pay for their own healthcare. And they may have to buy their own condoms. Are you freaking kidding me? They have to pay for their own condoms? That's just insane. You can be walking down the street and hear ... Christians ... saying Christian things. You might even hear them pray. OM Fing G. The list of atrocities we are subject to is just endless.

I don't know what you're talking about. This country is the most hateful, mean spirited in the history of man. No one ever had to live in these conditions.

 

[Mac1958]

What happened? Did you feel compelled to call someone a bad name and then chickened out? Next time don't be afraid, strike a blow for the those who wish to be a total asshole without consequence. Seriously, every society has unwritten rules of what constitutes acceptable behavior, might as well be bitching about the weather and blaming it on the weatherman.

Was it your intent to prove the OP's point or did you not get it when you did?

The funny thing is how often they do that. In the same post, they'll do the regular attacking and insulting and defend their behavior. What the hell? If you're agreeing that I'm right, why are you so cranky?

I have my guesses as to why, but who knows.

.

 

[Harry Dresden]

And there it is again.

Lots of confirmation of my point on this thread, and pretty much all of them.

Keep your opinions to yourself, or there will be consequences.

After all, this is America.

.

you are right Mac...but so is Plasma.....if you open your mouth and say something....you have to be willing to deal with the response you may get.....otherwise,like you said....Keep your opinions to yourself......just sayin...

Of course, freedom of expression means that I can respond to someone's words. But there is a clear and significant distinction here.

When someone says something that is racist or anti-gay or whatever, that provides me with an opportunity to engage them in debate. Perhaps I can change their hearts and minds, perhaps I can soften their stand. If nothing else, they'll know that there is a mature and reasoned counter-argument to their bigoted approach. Perhaps it will cause them to finally re-think things a little.

But that isn't even close to what the American Left does, in two ways.

First, they'll scream "racist" or "homophobe" at every opportunity, whether it's true or not, whether it's even in context or not, for no other reason than to put their target on the defensive and control the conversation. Once the target is on the defensive, the Left has successfully taken the conversation away from the original point.

Second, there is a massive difference between responding in kind something and issuing "consequences". I can't imagine that this isn't abundantly obvious. It's quite clear that the Left has decided to make itself judge, jury and executioner, and the final arbiter of what words Americans are and are not allowed to say without fear of a retribution that goes far beyond debate.

They want to issue "consequences", I do not. I'm not afraid of a messy society in which debate is not muffled.

And precisely how does screaming "racist" or "homophobe" or issuing consequences change hearts & minds? I don't think it does. They're not interested in changing hearts and minds, they're interested in intimidation and threats and forcing conformity.

I can think of several societies in which citizens walked around afraid of saying the wrong things in fear of annoying the wrong people, and no thanks, I'm not interested, nor will I ever be. As democrat Kirsten Powers said: "How ironic that the persecutors this time around are the so-called intellectuals. They claim to be liberal while behaving as anything but. The touchstone of liberalism is tolerance of differing ideas. Yet this mob exists to enforce conformity of thought and to delegitimize any dissent from its sanctioned worldview. Intolerance is its calling card."

.

the right does the same thing in their own way.....there are righties here who call every Hispanic here a criminal,even if they have been born and raised here.....there are some who call all Federal workers "leeches" and lazy workers and then claim they did not mean that,but yet they said it....poor people are all bums....it goes both ways Mac....

 

[jillian]

Wrong? Meh. I always offer my little opinions without personal insults and name-calling. That puts me in the minority here, so I'm usually comfortable with my approach.

.

and if someone engages me politely, they get a polite response. if they run around the board like the above iwackadoodle, insulting ore than half the population of the country, then i don't feel any need to do anything but make them look stupid.

but you said earlier, mac that in real life, you engage bigots and try to change their minds.

why don't you do that here?

Oh hell, I figured out a long time ago that this place isn't real life. For me it's more of an amateur psychological / sociological / anthropological study. A bunch of caricatures sliding around, playing bumper cars with each other. Once in a while I can squeeze an honest answer out of some folks, and I'll consider that a victory.

It's much easier to have an honest conversation in real life, where we can look in each other's eyes and get a better glimpse into what's actually going on. People are far more likely, at least in my opinion, to be honest when you're face to face. They're also far less likely to launch the third-grade name-calling and insults that we see here. The anonymity of the internet certainly makes folks brave.

I think I tried a few times early on, but it's a waste of time here.

.

if i'm reading you correctly, you don't feel that people here are "real" so don't see the need to act as you would in real life.

if i am misconstruing, please correct me.

for the record, there are people i find amenable to rational discussion. they may be few and far between, and always get disrupted by nastiness... but they are there if you look.

in any event, thank you for your response.

 

[Harry Dresden]

So tell me, Mack, what big important message do you want to say that you are just feeling SOOOOOO oppressed that you can't say it.

Go ahead, man, you go the floor.

Make the best of it.

Hmm. Can't really think of anything.

But since you're kind enough to give me the floor, I'll say this: In the real world, when someone says something against a race or against gays, I often try to open a mature, calm and civil discussion with them. Maybe I can sway them a little, just by a degree or so. Who knows. Every little bit helps. I have these types of conversations whenever I can.

I may be in dream land here, but I'd swear that once in a while I can get a bigot to think about stuff a little.

Strangely, it wouldn't occur to me to issue some kind of "consequence" to them. That's not really my place, and it seems pretty narcissistic to me. And it certainly is not constructive.

Anyway, thanks for yielding the floor.

.

I learned a long time ago, you can't get anyone to change their behavior unless there are consequences.

Do you know why I really want to crush the homophobes under a jackboot? Because they put Bush in for a second term. ANd Bush proceeded to fuck it up for everyone, gay and straight, black and white, rich and poor.

"Oooh, the country has been completely wrecked, but at least them fagoots can't get married!"

So, sorry, if I have to work three jobs to undo the mess George W. Bush made of my life, some homophobe should have to bake a fucking cake with two plastic dudes on top and they should smile when they fucking do it.

I don't care enough about them as people to want to "change" their minds. HOnestly, if they are completely fucking miserable watching two dudes kiss on TV, I'm really kind of good with that.

Because they put Bush in for a second term.

maybe if the Democrats would have ran some one better than Kerry he would not have been re-elected.....just sayin....

 

[Mac1958]

the right does the same thing in their own way.....there are righties here who call every Hispanic here a criminal,even if they have been born and raised here.....there are some who call all Federal workers "leeches" and lazy workers and then claim they did not mean that,but yet they said it....poor people are all bums....it goes both ways Mac....

No behavior is exclusive to one "side", that's for sure.

But the Left does far more than name calling and accusations. They make it their responsibility to issue "consequences" - and this is not my word, it is theirs. They choose to punish, they do not have to do so.

We're obviously not going to agree, but I see a significant distinction. And I think what bothers me the most is the fact that, you wouldn't know it by looking at me, but there's a lot of old hippie in me, and I hate to see how the American Left has become the antithesis of what it used to be. And again, to quote Democrat and hottie Kirsten Powers:

How ironic that the persecutors this time around are the so-called intellectuals. They claim to be liberal while behaving as anything but. The touchstone of liberalism is tolerance of differing ideas. Yet this mob exists to enforce conformity of thought and to delegitimize any dissent from its sanctioned worldview. Intolerance is its calling card.

.

 

[Mac1958]

if i'm reading you correctly, you don't feel that people here are "real" so don't see the need to act as you would in real life.

if i am misconstruing, please correct me.

for the record, there are people i find amenable to rational discussion. they may be few and far between, and always get disrupted by nastiness... but they are there if you look.

in any event, thank you for your response.

No, the opposite. I act exactly how I act in real life. No name calling, no personal insults. The one difference is that I no longer burn energy trying to have an honest, civil conversation -- such as what we're having right now -- once the game-playing begins. It may be that I'll give up on a conversation earlier than I should, but I'm just not interested.

It's like Lucy pulling the football away when Charlie Brown goes to kick it. She convinced him that she'd hold it for him this time, he believed her despite her past, and sure enough she pulls it away again. I just don't buy it any more, not here.

 

[LoneLaugher]

if i'm reading you correctly, you don't feel that people here are "real" so don't see the need to act as you would in real life.

if i am misconstruing, please correct me.

for the record, there are people i find amenable to rational discussion. they may be few and far between, and always get disrupted by nastiness... but they are there if you look.

in any event, thank you for your response.

No, the opposite. I act exactly how I act in real life. No name calling, no personal insults. The one difference is that I no longer burn energy trying to have an honest, civil conversation -- such as what we're having right now -- once the game-playing begins. It may be that I'll give up on a conversation earlier than I should, but I'm just not interested.

It's like Lucy pulling the football away when Charlie Brown goes to kick it. She convinced him that she'd hold it for him this time, he believed her despite her past, and sure enough she pulls it away again. I just don't buy it any more, not here.

That doesn't explain why you find it worthwhile to discuss some topics and not others here.

You have been so victimized. Allow me to apologize.

But.....please......stop saying that you don't insult people. Go back and look at your post history. Find the sentences that begin with the word "they". Most of them are insults.

 

[LoneLaugher]

the right does the same thing in their own way.....there are righties here who call every Hispanic here a criminal,even if they have been born and raised here.....there are some who call all Federal workers "leeches" and lazy workers and then claim they did not mean that,but yet they said it....poor people are all bums....it goes both ways Mac....

No behavior is exclusive to one "side", that's for sure.

But the Left does far more than name calling and accusations. They make it their responsibility to issue "consequences" - and this is not my word, it is theirs. They choose to punish, they do not have to do so.

We're obviously not going to agree, but I see a significant distinction. And I think what bothers me the most is the fact that, you wouldn't know it by looking at me, but there's a lot of old hippie in me, and I hate to see how the American Left has become the antithesis of what it used to be. And again, to quote Democrat and hottie Kirsten Powers:

How ironic that the persecutors this time around are the so-called intellectuals. They claim to be liberal while behaving as anything but. The touchstone of liberalism is tolerance of differing ideas. Yet this mob exists to enforce conformity of thought and to delegitimize any dissent from its sanctioned worldview. Intolerance is its calling card.

.

Mac. Let's you and I exchange a few posts in which we determine areas where we are in compete agreement. Whaddya say?

 

[kaz]

I learned a long time ago, you can't get anyone to change their behavior unless there are consequences

LOL. From the guy who claims to have been a Fox loving Republican before you realized the Democrats were right on every issue and every talking point? You learned people need consequences to change their behavior? And you BECAME a Democrat. Do you even read your own drivel or do you just leave that pleasure to us?

 

[JoeB131]

I learned a long time ago, you can't get anyone to change their behavior unless there are consequences

LOL. From the guy who claims to have been a Fox loving Republican before you realized the Democrats were right on every issue and every talking point? You learned people need consequences to change their behavior? And you BECAME a Democrat. Do you even read your own drivel or do you just leave that pleasure to us?

Well, you read what I write, but it's clear you don't understand much of it.

Didn't say the democrats were "right" on every issue.

The Republicans are WRONG on the key one- the balance of power between capital and labor. And it wasn't always this way. Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Ike, Reagan- they kind of got it.

We can thank the Bushes for getting it so wrong.

 

[kaz]

I learned a long time ago, you can't get anyone to change their behavior unless there are consequences

LOL. From the guy who claims to have been a Fox loving Republican before you realized the Democrats were right on every issue and every talking point? You learned people need consequences to change their behavior? And you BECAME a Democrat. Do you even read your own drivel or do you just leave that pleasure to us?

Well, you read what I write, but it's clear you don't understand much of it.

Didn't say the democrats were "right" on every issue.

The Republicans are WRONG on the key one- the balance of power between capital and labor. And it wasn't always this way. Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Ike, Reagan- they kind of got it.

We can thank the Bushes for getting it so wrong.

Irrelevant since everything you post not only is the Democratic position but justified with their talking points including their ridiculous demagoguery and caricatures of Republicans and views of their own selfless sainthood. It speaks for itself.

And yes, you did mention that paying you what you think you are worth is the responsibility of other people, not you. You're a typical greedy liberal who wants other people's money, there is no insight in that.

 

[Little-Acorn]

The problem is that liberals and progressives are never satisfied with their current achievements.

They feel they must be continually marching on in quest of their utopian vision for society.

Facilitated by group think and PC constraints on life and language.

Liberals/progressives are fascists hell bent on eradicating tradition, religion, culture, and the family.

And replacing it with a police state based on forced equality; were everyone has nothing; and the people share the subsequent misery equally. ...

You'll notice that their immediate response to my post was the same personal insults and name-calling to which I had referred.

I swear, they can't help themselves.

The world has seen this before.

.

The freedom to make such remarks is one of the attractions of being a liberal.

Liberalism is a philosophy that feels that everyone else is incompetent and unable to survive without massive "help"... from liberals, inevitably. It couples that with a belief that their opponents are not just wrong, but unutterably evil. And to top it off, most Americans find their agenda unappealing, understandably. So the liberals have gotten into the habit of lying about their agenda, lying about their opponents, and twisting the truth wherever they can, since telling the truth would only get them voted out of power. Lying becomes a normal, ingrained habit with them.

So it tends to attract people who are slavering to denigrate and assassinate the character of conservatives, or even Republicans - ANYONE who opposes them, regardless of their actual characteristics. And the cursing and namecalling (in lieu of actual argument or evidence) is all in a day's work - just another part of what they must do to be successful liberals.

In a nutshell, liberalism attracts the worst among us. Some people who genuinely want to help others, don't last long in the liberal camp as they discover the platitudes of "helping the poor" etc. were fibs, and discover the true nature of the ones who have remained and risen through the ranks. The ones who remain, are the ones whom the agenda and tactics fit to a "T": Those seething with hate, people happy to lie and distort their way through life, etc.

Why else do they constantly spend their time spewing lies about conservatives such as "poisoning the air", "stealing from children", "dispossessing seniors", "throwing granny off the cliff", and "everyone who disagrees with me is a liar"?

It's not a disturbing exception. Among liberals, it's the rule. It's the only way they can advance their agenda... and in most cases, the only way they want to.

And the dregs of humanity - warped individuals seething with hate, desiring to hurt and destroy others - find an accommodating home among their fellow travelers in the Democrat and other extreme-left big-government parties that regard the majority as needing help, unable to function well without "guidance", and generally inferior to the leftists. Not just now, but throughout history - England's "Labor" party, South Africa's white minority, Germany in the 1930s, etc.

The Obama administration, and their sycophants in this forum, are falling into the same predictable pattern that all those other leftist parties did. They are using the same tactics... and for the same goals.

 

[ClosedCaption]

PC Police = An excuse people use when they want to be assholes in public without the public weighing in also known as being a closeted asshole

 

[Mac1958]

PC Police = An excuse people use when they want to be assholes in public without the public weighing in also known as being a closeted asshole

Yes, your juvenile name-calling is very impressive.

You've never seen me engage in name-calling, nor will you ever.

You're projecting. You people have become what you claim to hate.

.