The battle for the soul of America.

[JackOfNoTrades]

No. I thinks it's just

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

We learn from history in museums. And from books. And from scholars. No one is pretending these things didn't happen, it's just being requested that it be explained in it's proper context without glorification.
For example, Robert E. Lee was a traitor. There should be no public statues of him...anywhere.

 

[Mac-7]

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is.

You tell me

the people doing the hating have to explain themselves not the other way around

 

[Mindful]

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

Did no one complain or did you simply not listen? No one is pretending things in the past never happened. The argument is that we shouldn't be honoring those who did those things in the public square.

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

NOLA also has a statue of slaves in chains. When I saw that statue, my initial reaction was, well that was F'ed up!; instead of reacting that we should bring slavery back.
Once again, statues note history, not necessarily promote history!

Statues are placed as an honor to that person.

Only one perception and your only perception.
That could be a problem.

Except it's not just me.

You’re still an ongoing experiment.

An extension of Europe?

 

[pknopp]

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is.

You tell me

the people doing the hating have to explain themselves not the other way around

I have. They have asked why they have to walk past a statue honoring someone that fought to keep their ancestors in slavery in the public square.

Your answer is F.U.

 

[pknopp]

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

Did no one complain or did you simply not listen? No one is pretending things in the past never happened. The argument is that we shouldn't be honoring those who did those things in the public square.

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

NOLA also has a statue of slaves in chains. When I saw that statue, my initial reaction was, well that was F'ed up!; instead of reacting that we should bring slavery back.
Once again, statues note history, not necessarily promote history!

Statues are placed as an honor to that person.

Only one perception and your only perception.
That could be a problem.

Except it's not just me.

You’re still an ongoing experiment.

An extension of Europe?

I have no clue what you are arguing.

 

[Mac-7]

You are the one arguing to keep the vestiges of that time in place.

You will not stop at rewriting or erasing history of the Confereracy.

you say the statues “honor” Confederate soldiers and I agree

whites have as much right to honor their ancestors as blacks do

we cant change the past

but that does not mean people today cannot live peacefully side-by-side unless the boot of oppression shifts from one group to the other

 

[Mindful]

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

Did no one complain or did you simply not listen? No one is pretending things in the past never happened. The argument is that we shouldn't be honoring those who did those things in the public square.

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

NOLA also has a statue of slaves in chains. When I saw that statue, my initial reaction was, well that was F'ed up!; instead of reacting that we should bring slavery back.
Once again, statues note history, not necessarily promote history!

Statues are placed as an honor to that person.

Only one perception and your only perception.
That could be a problem.

Except it's not just me.

You’re still an ongoing experiment.

An extension of Europe?

I have no clue what you are arguing.

Neither have I. I disappeared down the rabbit hole with you.

 

[Mac-7]

They have asked why they have to walk past a statue honoring someone that fought to keep their ancestors in slavery in the public square.

Because it history

the war was not only about slavery

 

[Mindful]

I’m going to walk past a statue of the Kaiser this afternoon.

He’s just there. (Shrug)

And later, some angels in the park. What’s that about?

 

[22lcidw]

Obviously those same beliefs still are around or you wouldn't be offended.

I should not be offended that black people hate me for the color of my skin?

Maybe you should ask yourself why that is.

the Black Lies Matter movement have become the Bull Connors and KKK of the 21st Century

You are the one arguing to keep the vestiges of that time in place.

Go to any individual who is really keeping the black man down and get him/her. And the Klan over all of those years killed about 2000 people with a percentage of them being white. 2000 people is a drop in the bucket compared to black on white murders.

 

[pknopp]

You are the one arguing to keep the vestiges of that time in place.

You will not stop at rewriting or erasing history of the Confereracy.

If you wish to change the subject or create an argument for me that I am not making, have at it but I'm not playing along.

 

[pknopp]

They have asked why they have to walk past a statue honoring someone that fought to keep their ancestors in slavery in the public square.

Because it history

the war was not only about slavery

It wasn't but nothing I have said isn't true.

 

[Mac-7]

If you wish to change the subject or create an argument for me that I am not making, have at it but I'm not playing along.

Removing Confederate monuments is no different than the Taliban blowing up Buddhist artifacts or Stalin removing the faces of people from government photographs

you are trying erase history

 

[Mindful]

From the article:

^^ Opponents of Trump, Brexit and so on are using symbols of past evil to discredit their present-day opponents.

That’s what it’s really about.

 

[B. Kidd]

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

Did no one complain or did you simply not listen? No one is pretending things in the past never happened. The argument is that we shouldn't be honoring those who did those things in the public square.

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

NOLA also has a statue of slaves in chains. When I saw that statue, my initial reaction was, well that was F'ed up!; instead of reacting that we should bring slavery back.
Once again, statues note history, not necessarily promote history!

Statues are placed as an honor to that person.

Only one perception and your only perception.
That could be a problem.

Except it's not just me.

It is not a majority consensus neither. It is a politically calculated one only.

 

[pknopp]

If you wish to change the subject or create an argument for me that I am not making, have at it but I'm not playing along.

Removing Confederate monuments is no different than the Taliban blowing up Buddhist artifacts or Stalin removing the faces of people from government photographs

you are trying erase history

That's been covered many times. As of yet you haven't addressed my main point. No one today should have to walk past a statue in the public square while going to go pay their taxes to someone that fought to keep their ancestors in slavery.

Just because that honor is no longer in the public square does not erase the history of what they did. We have countless museums, movies, books, etc that tells the story.

 

[Mac-7]

Opponents of Trump, Brexit and so on are using symbols of past evil to discredit their present-day opponents.

Exactly

the left wants political power and will use any means to get it

 

[pknopp]

From the article:

^^ Opponents of Trump, Brexit and so on are using symbols of past evil to discredit their present-day opponents.

That’s what it’s really about.

This argument pre-dates Trump.

Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials is an ongoing process in the United States since the 1960s. Many municipalities in the United States have removed monuments and memorials on public property dedicated to the Confederate States of America (CSA)

Removal of Confederate monuments and memorials - Wikipedia

 

[Mindful]

If you wish to change the subject or create an argument for me that I am not making, have at it but I'm not playing along.

Removing Confederate monuments is no different than the Taliban blowing up Buddhist artifacts or Stalin removing the faces of people from government photographs

you are trying erase history

That's been covered many times. As of yet you haven't addressed my main point. No one today should have to walk past a statue in the public square while going to go pay their taxes to someone that fought to keep their ancestors in slavery.

Just because that honor is no longer in the public square does not erase the history of what they did. We have countless museums, movies, books, etc that tells the story.

Were you as concerned about this, ten years ago?

Or even pre George Floyd?

 

[pknopp]

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

Did no one complain or did you simply not listen? No one is pretending things in the past never happened. The argument is that we shouldn't be honoring those who did those things in the public square.

Asking a black man to pass by a statue honoring someone that fought to keep his ancestors in slavery as he goes to the courthouse to pay his taxes is wrong.

Just because "historically" we did it does not make it right.

such bullshit. In New Orleans we have had a statue of Lee on Lee circle for over a hundred years, hundreds of thousands of blacks and whites have passed that statue every day and no one ever claimed to be offended until last year. What changed? Now the statue is gone, is the city better? is the crime rate down? are the potholes fixed? is the flooding stopped? Who is better off because a statue is gone? the covid shutdown and our incompetent mayor have damaged this city much more than any statue.

sure, there are some bad things in our history, but to pretend that they never happened is to risk repeating them. We need to learn from history, not try to rewrite it using today's perceptions of right and wrong.

NOLA also has a statue of slaves in chains. When I saw that statue, my initial reaction was, well that was F'ed up!; instead of reacting that we should bring slavery back.
Once again, statues note history, not necessarily promote history!

Statues are placed as an honor to that person.

Only one perception and your only perception.
That could be a problem.

Except it's not just me.

It is not a majority consensus neither. It is a politically calculated one only.

Allowing blacks to eat at the white lunch counter wasn't a majority consensus either.