The Bible is true

[Meriweather]

If you want to have a discussion about this we can.

Then go ahead. Discuss.

 

[Taz]

If the bible is true, then how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and then back again? Polar bears? ...

 

[Meriweather]

If the bible is true, then how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and then back again? Polar bears? ...

Most of us don't believe that Noah did this. Yes, there is a fringe of those who take every word in the Bible literally, who believe that because the Hebrew word used, translates into the English word 'world' the flood covered the entire planet.

It is the Hebrew word 'tevel' which means the entire planet, whereas the word used in Genesis was 'kol' meaning 'all' or 'all around'. Kol is used to define a region, or all that can be seen.

There is further Biblical confirmation that Noah's flood had to be confined to a region. Psalm 104 reminds us that when the earth was formed waters were restrained from ever again covering the entire earth.

Still skeptical? Then let's re-read Genesis Chapter 8, describing the flood, where once again the word 'kol' was in use. In verse five we are told the Noah saw the mountain tops. In verse nine the English translations tells us the dove returned to the ark because water covered 'all the earth'.

Which was it? If the mountain tops were visible, the water certainly didn't cover all the planet. Therefore the word 'kol' should not be translated to give the impression the planet Earth was covered, but rather signify all the earth of a specific region.

Not to be a rabble-rouser...(okay, maybe I should admit to being a bit of one )...when engaging Bible literalists in a discussion, why not engage them on their own ground? Ask them about Psalm 104; ask them about Genesis 8:5 vs Genesis 8:9. Ask them what Hebrew word was being used in the flood story, the one that described the planet, or the one that was used to describe all of an area/region.

Once you have laid this ground work, then they may be more open to the possibility that Noah's ark probably included plenty of animals from the region...but no kangaroos, polar bears, or penguins.

Instead of discussing what was or was not on the ark, we can discuss some of the fascinating spiritual truths intrinsic in the story.

 

[Taz]

If the bible is true, then how did Noah get kangaroos from Australia and then back again? Polar bears? ...

Most of us don't believe that Noah did this. Yes, there is a fringe of those who take every word in the Bible literally, who believe that because the Hebrew word used, translates into the English word 'world' the flood covered the entire planet.

It is the Hebrew word 'tevel' which means the entire planet, whereas the word used in Genesis was 'kol' meaning 'all' or 'all around'. Kol is used to define a region, or all that can be seen.

There is further Biblical confirmation that Noah's flood had to be confined to a region. Psalm 104 reminds us that when the earth was formed waters were restrained from ever again covering the entire earth.

Still skeptical? Then let's re-read Genesis Chapter 8, describing the flood, where once again the word 'kol' was in use. In verse five we are told the Noah saw the mountain tops. In verse nine the English translations tells us the dove returned to the ark because water covered 'all the earth'.

Which was it? If the mountain tops were visible, the water certainly didn't cover all the planet. Therefore the word 'kol' should not be translated to give the impression the planet Earth was covered, but rather signify all the earth of a specific region.

Not to be a rabble-rouser...(okay, maybe I should admit to being a bit of one )...when engaging Bible literalists in a discussion, why not engage them on their own ground? Ask them about Psalm 104; ask them about Genesis 8:5 vs Genesis 8:9. Ask them what Hebrew word was being used in the flood story, the one that described the planet, or the one that was used to describe all of an area/region.

Once you have laid this ground work, then they may be more open to the possibility that Noah's ark probably included plenty of animals from the region...but no kangaroos, polar bears, or penguins.

Instead of discussing what was or was not on the ark, we can discuss some of the fascinating spiritual truths intrinsic in the story.

From your post: "There is further Biblical confirmation that Noah's flood had to be confined to a region. Psalm 104 reminds us that when the earth was formed waters were restrained from ever again covering the entire earth."
"covering the entire earth". You said it, not me.

 

[Inevitable]

If you want to have a discussion about this we can.

Then go ahead. Discuss.

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

 

[koshergrl]

If you want to have a discussion about this we can.

Then go ahead. Discuss.

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

Wrong, on both counts.

But continue to pretend you know what you're talking about.

 

[Inevitable]

If you want to have a discussion about this we can.

Then go ahead. Discuss.

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

Wrong, on both counts.

But continue to pretend you know what you're talking about.

Nope I'm correct

But continue to just state lies and pretend they are true.

 

[koshergrl]

If you want to have a discussion about this we can.

Then go ahead. Discuss.

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

Wrong, on both counts.

But continue to pretend you know what you're talking about.

Nope I'm correct

But continue to just state lies and pretend they are true.

Like you?

No thank you.

 

[Inevitable]

If you want to have a discussion about this we can.

Then go ahead. Discuss.

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

Wrong, on both counts.

But continue to pretend you know what you're talking about.

Nope I'm correct

But continue to just state lies and pretend they are true.

Like you?

No thank you.

It's like having a discussing with a kindergartener.

Your post is just "i know you are but what am I."

I'm sure you are thoroughly impressed with peewee Herman but once you get to be about seven or eight years old it won't be that clever.

 

[Meriweather]

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

You and I have gone over this. You know that I reject your conjecture that the Bible contradicts itself. I have shown you that when taken in context, the "contradictions" you pointed to turned out to be statements addressing separate issues. Context not only matters--it matters a lot. You noted you disagree, and that's fine. Perhaps we can try another approach.

Tell me what you believe, and don't believe, about God.

 

[Inevitable]

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

You and I have gone over this. You know that I reject your conjecture that the Bible contradicts itself. I have shown you that when taken in context, the "contradictions" you pointed to turned out to be statements addressing separate issues. Context not only matters--it matters a lot. You noted you disagree, and that's fine. Perhaps we can try another approach.

Tell me what you believe, and don't believe, about God.

Why?

 

[Taz]

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

You and I have gone over this. You know that I reject your conjecture that the Bible contradicts itself. I have shown you that when taken in context, the "contradictions" you pointed to turned out to be statements addressing separate issues. Context not only matters--it matters a lot. You noted you disagree, and that's fine. Perhaps we can try another approach.

Tell me what you believe, and don't believe, about God.

God is a theory.

 

[Meriweather]

God is a theory.

While I know God to be a being, and therefore cannot treat him as a theory anymore than I can treat any being as a theory, it is also true that I have treated many of His teachings as theories.

Teachings, like scientific theories, can be tested. Scripture says that following and applying Christ's way will bring me a more fulfilling and more peaceful life.

How will you test out your theory that God is only a theory?

 

[Inevitable]

God is a theory.

While I know God to be a being, and therefore cannot treat him as a theory anymore than I can treat any being as a theory, it is also true that I have treated many of His teachings as theories.

Teachings, like scientific theories, can be tested. Scripture says that following and applying Christ's way will bring me a more fulfilling and more peaceful life.

How will you test out your theory that God is only a theory?

We can't prove God exists, we don't even have evidence that he does, so I think calling God a theory is extremely generous.

 

[hobelim]

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

If all you can see are the contradictions of course you would have to conclude that the Bible isn't true if you are an honest person especially since many professed believers claim that there are no contradictions and cannot possibly know or be speaking the truth themselves.

However, if you try another approach and think of each of those contradictions like a giant X on a treasure map that marks a place where something of great value is buried and hidden, if you start digging, and digging and keep on digging for it, you will find it.

The kingdom of Heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again. Matthew 13:44

Any fictional story that is loosely based on actual events and openly presented as teaching like the Torah is can and does convey many truths even if the entire story in every book is completely made up like any mythological tale that conveys a moral truth.......

And the context in which the entire Bible was written was either during or after times of persecution, occupation, destruction of the country and exile of the Jewish people when there was no such thing as freedom of speech and people were killed and maimed on a daily basis for trivial reasons.

Of course what they were covertly teaching their children was hidden in fantastical stories that at face value seemed unbelievable and silly even to their irrational and superstitious enemies..

One cannot find what they don't look for even if its hidden in plain sight.

Can you dig it?


.

 

[Inevitable]

The bible isn't true it contradicts itself thousands of times.

If all you can see are the contradictions of course you would have to conclude that the Bible isn't true if you are an honest person especially since many professed believers claim that there are no contradictions and cannot possibly know or be speaking the truth themselves.

However, if you try another approach and think of each of those contradictions like a giant X on a treasure map that marks a place where something of great value is buried and hidden, if you start digging, and digging and keep on digging for it, you will find it.

The kingdom of Heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again. Matthew 13:44

Any fictional story that is loosely based on actual events and openly presented as teaching like the Torah is can and does convey many truths even if the entire story in every book is completely made up like any mythological tale that conveys a moral truth.......

And the context in which the entire Bible was written was either during or after times of persecution, occupation, destruction of the country and exile of the Jewish people when there was no such thing as freedom of speech and people were killed and maimed on a daily basis for trivial reasons.

Of course what they were covertly teaching their children was hidden in fantastical stories that at face value seemed unbelievable and silly even to their irrational and superstitious enemies..

One cannot find what they don't look for even if its hidden in plain sight.

Can you dig it?


.

I remember saying that the bible did contain truth and is a tool used in gaining truth. And I absolutely dig it. That pretty much is how I view it. And that is what I was hoping to get at.

 

[Meriweather]

We can't prove God exists, we don't even have evidence that he does, so I think calling God a theory is extremely generous.

Taz will have to explain his thought process. I teach science, so I have this tendency to think of a theory as something that explains observable facts. In this way, I can take a teaching (heard or written), apply it to a situation, and observe what happens.

I would not got up to a person and say, "You are a theory." About the best I could do is say, "You walk, talk, and look like a person. Therefore my theory is that you are a human being."

I'm sorry about this, because I also teach grammar, and you and Taz may think I am picking at straws, when what I'm really am is a good example of an out of control grammar police.

Still, I am unsure of Taz's statement.

"The earth was created by God," qualifies as a theory. It explains a fact (the earth exists). Throughout history, we have stories of people who felt they were being cared for, or taught, by something spiritual/supernatural, not physical. Right away, we may run into a problem using the word 'theory', if nothing was observable. Still, we might catch the meaning if someone said, "Because of spiritual healing, I theorize there is a God."

But God himself is not a theory. A theory explains an observable fact. I haven't seen God explaining observable facts lately, therefore He is not a theory.

Yes, I know! The workings of my mind can take one aback.

 

[hobelim]

But God himself is not a theory. A theory explains an observable fact. I haven't seen God explaining observable facts lately, therefore He is not a theory. .

An observable fact is that anyone who subscribes to irrational beliefs and degrading religious practices such as idolatry seem to have lost their ability to think objectively or acknowledge or even perceive that such beliefs and practices are clearly condemned and forbidden by divine law under penalty of death according to the very Bible they have supposedly read and have dedicated themselves to follow. An observable fact is that people such as these who profess religious beliefs that are contradicted by reality, not to mention scripture itself, are living in perpetual denial of the reality that actually exists like a purifying and consuming fire that can never go out, in a state of cognitive dissonance if you will, which would amount to being held captive in a living hell by the discomfit of such mind defiling and thought contaminating confusion...

Who else but God who reigns over the hearts and minds of men and either grants or denies comprehension which is life could explain this clearly observable fact that seems to support the scriptural claim about the reality of divine condemnation?

Got any other theories?

 

[hobelim]

I remember saying that the bible did contain truth and is a tool used in gaining truth. And I absolutely dig it. That pretty much is how I view it. And that is what I was hoping to get at.

I can absolutely dig that, but what I also see is that as many promises there are in scripture about truth, , earthly blessings, and eternal life for those who conform to its teachings there are promises of condemnation and curses for those who read the books and fail to learn or conform to the lessons taught which makes them incapable of discerning the difference between good and evil, life and death, consequent to their deliberately chosen beliefs and practices .

That's what I was hoping to get at. People who do not realize that they are dead will never find a reason to come out of their graves, and only when the dead come out of their graves will the biblical promise of there being no more curse be fulfilled and the truth that has been for so long unfruitful will finally be brought to light.

Only when the specious promises of false religious beliefs and degrading religious practices that have caused so many minds to stumble into the netherworld are extirpated will the dead be free to rise from their graves.

 

[Meriweather]

Got any other theories?

I am working on a theory that can explain what compels non-Catholics who refuse to learn the Catholic faith to tell Catholics what they "really" believe and getting it all wrong. It is chaotic trying to converse with those who make up their own version of faith and claim it is Catholic.