The Bolton Bombshell (from his book)

[colfax_m]

The timeline is completely circumstantial. The noncircumstantial evidence goes against you.


They were pushing for his dismissal for several months. The loan guarantees were about to be committed so that gave them the leverage to finally get the prosecutor fired.

So tell the class exactly when the loan guarantees were authorized relative to the demand.

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Depends on what you mean by authorized. Here's some timelines that look pretty solid to me.

U.S. To Move Forward With $1 Billion Loan Guarantee For Ukraine

Timeline: Trump, Giuliani, Bidens, and Ukraine (updated)

The timeline in your two links have conflicts. One says Biden spoke to president Poroshenko May 13 2014, your other link said Poroshenko took office June 7 2014. They also say the loan guarantees were authorized in May 2014, biden didn't demand Shokin's firing till Fall 2015, What changed, other than the owner of Burisma getting his home raided and Burisma reps contacting the State Dept?

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I don’t know what you’re reading they says Biden spoke to Poroshenko May 13, 2014. One link says they talked on May 13 2016 so I think you’re confused about the year.

There were also multiple rounds of loan guarantees. The third round of guarantees were offered in Nov 2015 which was right in the middle of this scandal.

You're right, I'm trying to listen to the proceedings in senate and read the links. Why did you give a link to a loan guarantee in 2016 when the topics occurred in 2015?

.

No problem. Shokin was dismissed in early 2016.

 

[OKTexas]

The asked them to appear, the only subpoena that was issued was taken to court and the commies withdrew it.

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That's not true. Article 2 of the impeachment says this:
(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the production of documents sought therein by the Committees.

(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the Committees — in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce a single document or record.

(3) Directing current and former Executive Branch officials not to cooperate with the Committees — in response to which nine Administration officials defied subpoenas for testimony, namely John Michael “Mick” Mulvaney, Robert B. Blair, John A. Eisenberg, Michael Ellis, Preston Wells Griffith, Russell T. Vought, Michael Duffey, Brian McCormack, and T. Ulrich Brechbuhl.

Wow, I notice Bolten isn't on that list, but you also need to check the facts and stop relying on commie lies. But let's assume that is correct, why didn't the commies go to court to enforce their subpoenas? They are the ones that tried to shortcut the system. Now they're asking the senate to do the job the chose not to do.

.

Since when does Congress have to go to court to enforce a subpoena? Court is an option, but it's not their only option.

Yep, the other option is to hold the person in contempt, we've seen how effective that is.

.

We’ve also seen how effective it is to go to court.

I’m not sure you can hold the president in contempt. It would be an interesting experiment.

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

 

[colfax_m]

That's not true. Article 2 of the impeachment says this:
(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the production of documents sought therein by the Committees.

(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the Committees — in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce a single document or record.

(3) Directing current and former Executive Branch officials not to cooperate with the Committees — in response to which nine Administration officials defied subpoenas for testimony, namely John Michael “Mick” Mulvaney, Robert B. Blair, John A. Eisenberg, Michael Ellis, Preston Wells Griffith, Russell T. Vought, Michael Duffey, Brian McCormack, and T. Ulrich Brechbuhl.

Wow, I notice Bolten isn't on that list, but you also need to check the facts and stop relying on commie lies. But let's assume that is correct, why didn't the commies go to court to enforce their subpoenas? They are the ones that tried to shortcut the system. Now they're asking the senate to do the job the chose not to do.

.

Since when does Congress have to go to court to enforce a subpoena? Court is an option, but it's not their only option.

Yep, the other option is to hold the person in contempt, we've seen how effective that is.

.

We’ve also seen how effective it is to go to court.

I’m not sure you can hold the president in contempt. It would be an interesting experiment.

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

Fair point. They weren’t going to arrest anyone and hold them in lockup. I got into an argument about this before which I lost. I don’t know that it’s legal or has any precedent to hold executive branch officials in the little Congressional jail.

 

[OKTexas]

The commies said they had a slam dunk case, what happened to that? The truth is the bidens are dirty as hell, you folks don't seem to interested in learning the facts about that.

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There was more than enough testimony in front of the House to indict Trump. Republicans have a higher standard of proof than normal people so we really are going to have to slap them in the face with it.

There was more than enough testimony before the House to tell us that Biden wasn't doing anything wrong. You don't seem interested in acknowledging that.

Yeah right, baby biden got the job two days after Devon Archer met with poppa joe at the WH. Shoken was fired shortly after Devon Archer met with Kerry at the State Dept. Burisma bought access to the maobama regime, it's just that simple. Also it's been proven that 4 other close relatives of poppa joe made millions while poppa joe was VP. The bidens are drity as hell.

.

Idiot, we had been trying to get Shokin out for six months before he was finally sacked. Others had been trying even longer. Shokin wasn't pursuing Zelensky but Shokin's replacement did. Getting Shokin out had nothing to do Archer, Kerry or Hunter Biden.

Then why wasn't the ultimatum given much earlier, the loan guarantees were authorize more than a year earlier. BTW why would Shokin be investigating Zelensky?

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Because Shokin didn’t take office until Feb 2015. He was only prosecutor general for about a year and a bit. What really pushed the State Dept to go after him was the Diamond Prosecutor scandal and that occurred in the summer-fall of 2015.

I haven't heard this term, Diamond Prosecutor scandal, do you have a link for it?

.

 

[OKTexas]

Wow, I notice Bolten isn't on that list, but you also need to check the facts and stop relying on commie lies. But let's assume that is correct, why didn't the commies go to court to enforce their subpoenas? They are the ones that tried to shortcut the system. Now they're asking the senate to do the job the chose not to do.

.

Since when does Congress have to go to court to enforce a subpoena? Court is an option, but it's not their only option.

Yep, the other option is to hold the person in contempt, we've seen how effective that is.

.

We’ve also seen how effective it is to go to court.

I’m not sure you can hold the president in contempt. It would be an interesting experiment.

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

Fair point. They weren’t going to arrest anyone and hold them in lockup. I got into an argument about this before which I lost. I don’t know that it’s legal or has any precedent to hold executive branch officials in the little Congressional jail.

The law says congressional contempt citations are to be submitted to the DOJ for disposition. The Congress has no independent enforcement authority, they can't order anyone be jailed.

.

 

[Denizen]

Chaos defines the first three years of the Trump Administration, it has now infected the members of the Trump's Lawyers, from Rudy to the current crop of lawyers now putting all watchers to sleep.

In wake of Bolton book news, White House allies say Trump lawyers bungled defense


Reports that John Bolton has written a firsthand account of the president’s direct involvement in withholding aid to Ukraine has left some Republicans confused and angry over the legal strategy by the president’s defense team — which has devoted much of its arguments in the Senate impeachment trial to arguing that no such firsthand evidence existed.

One Republican operative who advises the White House said he was “flabbergasted at how stupidly they have handled this.”

Trump attorney Mike Purpura argued Saturday that “not a single witness testified that the president himself said that there was any connection between any investigations and security assistance, a presidential meeting or anything else.”

Well for chaos he's done a damned fine job.

UE is the lowest its been in 50 years, there are jobs all across the country and the economy is doing great. Hell those that play the stock market are doing fine as well.

I'll take that chaos all day every day. LOL

Donald Trump has never achieved anything on his own in his whole privileged life.

He inherited wealth and businesses from his father and would have bankrupted all that if it had not been for Russian mob money.

Donald Trump inherited a robustly growing economy from Obama which has continued on the same trajectory despite Donald Trump's resort to debt to fuel the economy.

The stock market gains have been fueled by corporate tax cuts and burgeoning government debt which is rising faster than GDP. The debt is rising at > than 2 x GDP growth.

It is evident that Donald Trump's casino economics is leading to a debt burden that may become unpayable if a recession emerges which further reduces tax revenue.

In any case, a debt growth rate of >2 x GDP growth rate is unsustainable and will eventually doom the economy.

 

[evenflow1969]

So I guess you all can agree that Biden didn’t do anything wrong then.

What are you blabbering about?

Quid pro quo’s are normal. That’s what you’re accusing Biden of doing.

Unlike president Trump the Bidens committed actual crimes, money changed hands, they belong in prison with countless other scum of the earth Democrats.

But you just said a quid pro quo was done all the time. Except when Democrats do it?

You are desperately trying to construct a strawman argument. Why don't you go work on it for a couple of weeks then return and I'll be happy to destroy you.

your an idiot you will destroy no one!

 

[BluesLegend]

What are you blabbering about?

Quid pro quo’s are normal. That’s what you’re accusing Biden of doing.

Unlike president Trump the Bidens committed actual crimes, money changed hands, they belong in prison with countless other scum of the earth Democrats.

But you just said a quid pro quo was done all the time. Except when Democrats do it?

You are desperately trying to construct a strawman argument. Why don't you go work on it for a couple of weeks then return and I'll be happy to destroy you.

your an idiot you will destroy no one!

Relax snowflake.

 

[colfax_m]

Since when does Congress have to go to court to enforce a subpoena? Court is an option, but it's not their only option.

Yep, the other option is to hold the person in contempt, we've seen how effective that is.

.

We’ve also seen how effective it is to go to court.

I’m not sure you can hold the president in contempt. It would be an interesting experiment.

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

Fair point. They weren’t going to arrest anyone and hold them in lockup. I got into an argument about this before which I lost. I don’t know that it’s legal or has any precedent to hold executive branch officials in the little Congressional jail.

The law says congressional contempt citations are to be submitted to the DOJ for disposition. The Congress has no independent enforcement authority, they can't order anyone be jailed.

.

In the old days they would have the Sargent at arms arrest people in contempt and keep them in a cell somewhere in the basement of the capital. It hasn’t happened in many years.

I read an old CRS report on it. I can try to find it.

Certainly no one expects the DoJ to do anything about contempt referrals for executive branch officials.

 

[evenflow1969]

Quid pro quo’s are normal. That’s what you’re accusing Biden of doing.

Unlike president Trump the Bidens committed actual crimes, money changed hands, they belong in prison with countless other scum of the earth Democrats.

But you just said a quid pro quo was done all the time. Except when Democrats do it?

You are desperately trying to construct a strawman argument. Why don't you go work on it for a couple of weeks then return and I'll be happy to destroy you.

your an idiot you will destroy no one!

Relax snowflake.

Bow me bitch!

 

[colfax_m]

There was more than enough testimony in front of the House to indict Trump. Republicans have a higher standard of proof than normal people so we really are going to have to slap them in the face with it.

There was more than enough testimony before the House to tell us that Biden wasn't doing anything wrong. You don't seem interested in acknowledging that.

Yeah right, baby biden got the job two days after Devon Archer met with poppa joe at the WH. Shoken was fired shortly after Devon Archer met with Kerry at the State Dept. Burisma bought access to the maobama regime, it's just that simple. Also it's been proven that 4 other close relatives of poppa joe made millions while poppa joe was VP. The bidens are drity as hell.

.

Idiot, we had been trying to get Shokin out for six months before he was finally sacked. Others had been trying even longer. Shokin wasn't pursuing Zelensky but Shokin's replacement did. Getting Shokin out had nothing to do Archer, Kerry or Hunter Biden.

Then why wasn't the ultimatum given much earlier, the loan guarantees were authorize more than a year earlier. BTW why would Shokin be investigating Zelensky?

.

Because Shokin didn’t take office until Feb 2015. He was only prosecutor general for about a year and a bit. What really pushed the State Dept to go after him was the Diamond Prosecutor scandal and that occurred in the summer-fall of 2015.

I haven't heard this term, Diamond Prosecutor scandal, do you have a link for it?

.

You bet. There’s a number of stories on it. Just google Shokin Diamond Prosecutors. This was a good article.

‘Cache of diamonds’: Trump-Biden impeachment fight originates with corrupt chauffeur

 

[Lakhota]

Over the course of two responses to questions from senators, the president’s lawyers made the Trumpiest possible argument in his defense.

Trump’s team argues that anything he does to win reelection isn’t impeachable

Unbelievable!

 

[OKTexas]

Yep, the other option is to hold the person in contempt, we've seen how effective that is.

.

We’ve also seen how effective it is to go to court.

I’m not sure you can hold the president in contempt. It would be an interesting experiment.

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

Fair point. They weren’t going to arrest anyone and hold them in lockup. I got into an argument about this before which I lost. I don’t know that it’s legal or has any precedent to hold executive branch officials in the little Congressional jail.

The law says congressional contempt citations are to be submitted to the DOJ for disposition. The Congress has no independent enforcement authority, they can't order anyone be jailed.

.

In the old days they would have the Sargent at arms arrest people in contempt and keep them in a cell somewhere in the basement of the capital. It hasn’t happened in many years.

I read an old CRS report on it. I can try to find it.

Certainly no one expects the DoJ to do anything about contempt referrals for executive branch officials.

The law requires DOJ to submit a contempt citation to a grand jury, AGs of both parties have ignored it. Both have argued that the citations couldn't be sustained in a grand jury process. But congress having law enforcement power is clearly unconstitutional under separation of powers.

.

 

[colfax_m]

We’ve also seen how effective it is to go to court.

I’m not sure you can hold the president in contempt. It would be an interesting experiment.

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

Fair point. They weren’t going to arrest anyone and hold them in lockup. I got into an argument about this before which I lost. I don’t know that it’s legal or has any precedent to hold executive branch officials in the little Congressional jail.

The law says congressional contempt citations are to be submitted to the DOJ for disposition. The Congress has no independent enforcement authority, they can't order anyone be jailed.

.

In the old days they would have the Sargent at arms arrest people in contempt and keep them in a cell somewhere in the basement of the capital. It hasn’t happened in many years.

I read an old CRS report on it. I can try to find it.

Certainly no one expects the DoJ to do anything about contempt referrals for executive branch officials.

The law requires DOJ to submit a contempt citation to a grand jury, AGs of both parties have ignored it. Both have argued that the citation couldn't be sustained in a grand jury process. But congress having law enforcement power is clearly unconstitutional under separation of powers.

.

It’s not law enforcement power. They’re just enforcing their subpoena power. I don’t think it’s unconstitutional. If I’m not mistaken, judges can order people jailed because of contempt of court.

 

[Crixus]

Drafts of the book outline the potential testimony of the former national security adviser if he were called as a witness in the president’s impeachment trial.

WASHINGTON — President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens, according to an unpublished manuscript by the former adviser, John R. Bolton.

NYT: Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Demands for Inquiries, Bolton Book Says

John Bolton Reportedly Recalls Trump Tying Ukraine Aid To Biden Investigation

How can Republicans not vote for witnesses after this? By Maggie Haberman and Michael S. Schmidt. They are two of the Times best and most credible reporters.

Russia. Robert Muller and his DNC contributors failed. Destroyed his legacy. He will be remembered as the guy who tried for three years to pin being a spy on trump. It ruined him. Trumps Lawyer, the guy who had the goods tried to pull it off. In the end he managed to pick up three years in prison and a criminal referral. Stormy Daniels, she was going to torpedo Trumps presidency to. In the end, she ended up paying Trumps legal bills. Michael Avanatti. He was going to get trump to. Beat him at the ballot box. Instead, he picks up a charge for domestic violence and a fat charge for extortion and defrauding a handy capable fellow out of his millions. And now. Now it's John Bolten. So, John Boltens book has been pulled. And his secret passage that was the one that nailed trump is gone to. And most likely the senators who are jurors and that have the clearance have read this. It's going nowhere. This is done and over. In the end what you will have is an acquitted Trump that after he is sworn in won't have a lame duck period. All those judges will be appointed at break neck speed. The wall will go up faster with all the opposition already defeated. Y'all lost . Deal with it.

 

[OKTexas]

Yeah right, baby biden got the job two days after Devon Archer met with poppa joe at the WH. Shoken was fired shortly after Devon Archer met with Kerry at the State Dept. Burisma bought access to the maobama regime, it's just that simple. Also it's been proven that 4 other close relatives of poppa joe made millions while poppa joe was VP. The bidens are drity as hell.

.

Idiot, we had been trying to get Shokin out for six months before he was finally sacked. Others had been trying even longer. Shokin wasn't pursuing Zelensky but Shokin's replacement did. Getting Shokin out had nothing to do Archer, Kerry or Hunter Biden.

Then why wasn't the ultimatum given much earlier, the loan guarantees were authorize more than a year earlier. BTW why would Shokin be investigating Zelensky?

.

Because Shokin didn’t take office until Feb 2015. He was only prosecutor general for about a year and a bit. What really pushed the State Dept to go after him was the Diamond Prosecutor scandal and that occurred in the summer-fall of 2015.

I haven't heard this term, Diamond Prosecutor scandal, do you have a link for it?

.

You bet. There’s a number of stories on it. Just google Shokin Diamond Prosecutors. This was a good article.

‘Cache of diamonds’: Trump-Biden impeachment fight originates with corrupt chauffeur

Wow, diamonds get you in trouble? I hope no one searches my place, I've got a couple hundred of them, including rare natural orange diamonds. LOL But that said, if the article is accurate, then Shokin needed to go. But then we get into the mixed motives of biden, don't we? Two benefits for the same action.

.

 

[OKTexas]

They can't hold the president in contempt, but they can concerning his subordinates.

.

Fair point. They weren’t going to arrest anyone and hold them in lockup. I got into an argument about this before which I lost. I don’t know that it’s legal or has any precedent to hold executive branch officials in the little Congressional jail.

The law says congressional contempt citations are to be submitted to the DOJ for disposition. The Congress has no independent enforcement authority, they can't order anyone be jailed.

.

In the old days they would have the Sargent at arms arrest people in contempt and keep them in a cell somewhere in the basement of the capital. It hasn’t happened in many years.

I read an old CRS report on it. I can try to find it.

Certainly no one expects the DoJ to do anything about contempt referrals for executive branch officials.

The law requires DOJ to submit a contempt citation to a grand jury, AGs of both parties have ignored it. Both have argued that the citation couldn't be sustained in a grand jury process. But congress having law enforcement power is clearly unconstitutional under separation of powers.

.

It’s not law enforcement power. They’re just enforcing their subpoena power. I don’t think it’s unconstitutional. If I’m not mistaken, judges can order people jailed because of contempt of court.

Feel free to show where the Constitution gives congress the power to enforce laws. The president is charged with that responsibility in article 2, the congress can enforce their own rules, but only on themselves.

.

 

[yidnar]

Unlike president Trump the Bidens committed actual crimes, money changed hands, they belong in prison with countless other scum of the earth Democrats.

But you just said a quid pro quo was done all the time. Except when Democrats do it?

You are desperately trying to construct a strawman argument. Why don't you go work on it for a couple of weeks then return and I'll be happy to destroy you.

your an idiot you will destroy no one!

Relax snowflake.

Bow me bitch!

- minus 5 points for spelling .

 

[B. Kidd]

But you just said a quid pro quo was done all the time. Except when Democrats do it?

You are desperately trying to construct a strawman argument. Why don't you go work on it for a couple of weeks then return and I'll be happy to destroy you.

your an idiot you will destroy no one!

Relax snowflake.

Bow me bitch!

- minus 5 points for spelling .

You think he got triggered?

 

[colfax_m]

Idiot, we had been trying to get Shokin out for six months before he was finally sacked. Others had been trying even longer. Shokin wasn't pursuing Zelensky but Shokin's replacement did. Getting Shokin out had nothing to do Archer, Kerry or Hunter Biden.

Then why wasn't the ultimatum given much earlier, the loan guarantees were authorize more than a year earlier. BTW why would Shokin be investigating Zelensky?

.

Because Shokin didn’t take office until Feb 2015. He was only prosecutor general for about a year and a bit. What really pushed the State Dept to go after him was the Diamond Prosecutor scandal and that occurred in the summer-fall of 2015.

I haven't heard this term, Diamond Prosecutor scandal, do you have a link for it?

.

You bet. There’s a number of stories on it. Just google Shokin Diamond Prosecutors. This was a good article.

‘Cache of diamonds’: Trump-Biden impeachment fight originates with corrupt chauffeur

Wow, diamonds get you in trouble? I hope no one searches my place, I've got a couple hundred of them, including rare natural orange diamonds. LOL But that said, if the article is accurate, then Shokin needed to go. But then we get into the mixed motives of biden, don't we? Two benefits for the same action.

.

Maybe. But you have to admit, it’s very exculpatory information.