The Carrier Deal

[Missouri_Mike]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

 

[g5000]

Protectionism is popular with people who can't keep up. They want the old low tech jobs to be high paying jobs forever.

Rather than concentrate on education and training their kids for the jobs of tomorrow, they think their kids should be able to go to work in a horse and buggy factory at $40 an hour, and that we should put high tariffs on foreign buggies.

That's EXACTLY how LIBERALS think.

They fail to realize that a large part of the jobs that are gone did not go overseas. They are just flat out GONE. Obsoleted by capital investments in technology and efficiency which have paid off handsomely for the owners.

Funny...I really thought that was a conservative thing.
Hanging on to old technology like coal.
Rejecting new technology like solar.
Insisting on teaching religion in schools.
Resisting teaching science if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
Looking back to the good old days.

Conservative vs Progressive...it's in the name isn't it?

And guess what is finally kicking coal's ass?

Hint: It isn't solar.

Hint: It wasn't government subsidies.

It is market forces. Natural gas is kicking coal's ass. The pseudocons have been lied to. They think the reason coal is losing these days is because of government regulation.

But the truth is that it was the markets which determined the winner. THAT is what REAL conservatism is about. Despite solar getting a leg up from government, the market still beat the shit out of dirty coal the old fashioned way.

Liberals should look and learn. The market always has a funny way of sorting our problems out.

So, it's either/or?
When has a single energy source been relied on exclusively?
Sure, gas is cheap and plentiful at the moment but it's hardly a leap into the future and solar is rising as a technology.

Coal provides 50 percent of our energy needs. No way solar is anywhere near the point of replacing that capacity.

Not even close.

But we have an ocean of natural gas which could do it much sooner.

It is therefore much more economically feasible to do it with natural gas, and that is exactly what is happening. Businesses are retooling from coal to natural gas at a much greater scale than to solar.

And that is why coal jobs are fucked. Demand, not regulation.

 

[BlindBoo]

All that and they still lost over 60% of the jobs.

Victory lap for the Rubes.

 

[g5000]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

 

[OldLady]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

They didnt pay them shit you fucking moron..

Tax break= tax payers dont pay a damn thing

? Who makes up the 7 mil that won't be paid by Carrier? Tax payers.

Make up what? Cut services another one that is Anti jobs.



.

Cut what services? State police? DOT road crews? Public Health nursing?

 

[g5000]

We are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas.

Coal is fucked.

But whatever jobs are lost in the coal industry will be more than replaced in the natural gas industry.

Horse and buggy, meet the automobile.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

You have it exactly backward. Business sent the signal to the government that with these tax rates so high they will move to Mexico. When are you people going to learn there's a limit to how much business owners will give you in taxes before they make a drastic change that will result in you collecting nothing from them?

 

[g5000]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

You have it exactly backward. Business sent the signal to the government that with these tax rates so high they will move to Mexico. When are you people going to learn there's a limit to how much business owners will give you in taxes before they make a drastic change that will result in you collecting nothing from them?

Taxes have very little to do with why companies move out of the USA.

It's all about labor and material costs. You are a fool for bleeving it is taxes.

 

[NLT]

g5000

what a pussy

 

[Correll]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

He has sent a signal that once he takes office, he is going to be serious about keeping jobs in the US.


Your assumption that he will NOT use any of the tools he gains by taking office is very weak.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

All that and they still lost over 60% of the jobs.

Victory lap for the Rubes.

So you would rather sit on your ass and lose 100% of those jobs. Then you could raise the taxes on the remaining business' to make up for the tax losses, resulting in more companies leaving the state. You're an economic fucking savant.

 

[g5000]

Labor costs are the main driver of corporations sending jobs overseas, but foreign countries’ costs are increasing compared to the United States. According to a 2012 survey from Duke’s Fuqua School of business, nearly three-quarters of respondents indicated labor cost savings as one of the three most important drivers leading to overseas outsourcing. This was twice the rate of response for any other option.

5 Facts About Overseas Outsourcing

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

Obama and company gave failed solar companies $500,000,000 and didn't save one job.
NEXT.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

You have it exactly backward. Business sent the signal to the government that with these tax rates so high they will move to Mexico. When are you people going to learn there's a limit to how much business owners will give you in taxes before they make a drastic change that will result in you collecting nothing from them?

Taxes have very little to do with why companies move out of the USA.

It's all about labor and material costs. You are a fool for bleeving it is taxes.

Well if that were true then why did carrier agree to stay with a tax break? How the hell did that change their costs of labor and materials?

 

[percysunshine]

.
Trump is a piker. Hillary would have made it $7 Billion.

 

[g5000]

As China transitions from a manufacturing economy to a consumer economy, we will see the labor gap start to close. And that will save more American jobs than any government policy.

 

[g5000]

I disagree with your characterization that the State of Indiana is giving them $7 million. That money was already Carrier's to begin with. It's just $7 million less that state is confiscating through the theft of taxation. There is a difference.

That said, you are correct. It is crony capitalism at its finest. We need a level playing field for all businesses across the board, not a pay for play scheme where winners and losers are chosen by central planners.

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

You have it exactly backward. Business sent the signal to the government that with these tax rates so high they will move to Mexico. When are you people going to learn there's a limit to how much business owners will give you in taxes before they make a drastic change that will result in you collecting nothing from them?

Taxes have very little to do with why companies move out of the USA.

It's all about labor and material costs. You are a fool for bleeving it is taxes.

Well if that were true then why did carrier agree to stay with a tax break? How the hell did that change their costs of labor and materials?

$7 million for 700 jobs.

And I bet Carrier still leaves before Trump's presidency ends.

 

[idb]

Protectionism is popular with people who can't keep up. They want the old low tech jobs to be high paying jobs forever.

Rather than concentrate on education and training their kids for the jobs of tomorrow, they think their kids should be able to go to work in a horse and buggy factory at $40 an hour, and that we should put high tariffs on foreign buggies.

That's EXACTLY how LIBERALS think.

They fail to realize that a large part of the jobs that are gone did not go overseas. They are just flat out GONE. Obsoleted by capital investments in technology and efficiency which have paid off handsomely for the owners.

Funny...I really thought that was a conservative thing.
Hanging on to old technology like coal.
Rejecting new technology like solar.
Insisting on teaching religion in schools.
Resisting teaching science if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
Looking back to the good old days.

Conservative vs Progressive...it's in the name isn't it?

And guess what is finally kicking coal's ass?

Hint: It isn't solar.

Hint: It wasn't government subsidies.

It is market forces. Natural gas is kicking coal's ass. The pseudocons have been lied to. They think the reason coal is losing these days is because of government regulation.

But the truth is that it was the markets which determined the winner. THAT is what REAL conservatism is about. Despite solar getting a leg up from government, the market still beat the shit out of dirty coal the old fashioned way.

Liberals should look and learn. The market always has a funny way of sorting our problems out.

So, it's either/or?
When has a single energy source been relied on exclusively?
Sure, gas is cheap and plentiful at the moment but it's hardly a leap into the future and solar is rising as a technology.

Coal provides 50 percent of our energy needs. No way solar is anywhere near the point of replacing that capacity.

Not even close.

But we have an ocean of natural gas which could do it much sooner.

It is therefore much more economically feasible to do it with natural gas, and that is exactly what is happening. Businesses are retooling from coal to natural gas at a much greater scale than to solar.

And that is why coal jobs are fucked. Demand, not regulation.

Are we disagreeing about something?

 

[percysunshine]

Not sure I would classify giving tax breaks as crony but I can see the point these types of deals should apply equally to everyone. I'm hoping that is the end goal for Trump but since he doesn't have the power yet to do that this one they could work at the state level and get it done. The fact is Indiana give them a tax break to stay and will still be collecting taxes from the employees and corporation far exceeding that amount. The alternative was to let carrier move as planned and collect no money at all while having an additional 1000 people thrown on the welfare rolls costing even more. That 7 million was well worth giving up.

Trump has sent a signal to every business in America that all they have to do is threaten to move to Mexico and he will bribe them to stay.

At taxpayer expense.

You have it exactly backward. Business sent the signal to the government that with these tax rates so high they will move to Mexico. When are you people going to learn there's a limit to how much business owners will give you in taxes before they make a drastic change that will result in you collecting nothing from them?

Taxes have very little to do with why companies move out of the USA.

It's all about labor and material costs. You are a fool for bleeving it is taxes.

Well if that were true then why did carrier agree to stay with a tax break? How the hell did that change their costs of labor and materials?

$7 million for 700 jobs. That's a significant savings of $7000 per employee.

.
If it were $7 Billion, they would be worth even more

 

[g5000]

Donald Trump and Mike Pence got Carrier to stay in Pence's state of Indiana by giving them a $7 million bribe that will have to be made up for by Indiana's taxpayers.

Sarah Palin has called this the usual crony capitalism that has NOT been making America great.

So much for a level playing field, boys and girls.

Obama and company gave failed solar companies $500,000,000 and didn't save one job.
NEXT.

When you look at ALL the subsidies the alternative energy sector received, the government came out ahead.

You see, your propaganda outlets are very careful to frame the picture they present to you so that you don't see the WHOLE picture. This way they can be sure you will parrot only what they want you to parrot.