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Well, regarding "heaven" there are three. Two can be seen, the third is another dimension, a spiritual one where God and the angels dwell. Most religions have a concept of a spiritual heaven.The problem with this "understanding" is that it's FALSE.
The understanding was that God sat up there in the skies. Heaven was up, hell was down. Therefore heaven was the skies. We literally have expressions of the heavens "heavens above" and "the heavens opened" to indicate where people thought the heavens were.
And yet we got into space and we proved it wrong.
So, tell me, what understanding do you think exists that is unavailable to unbelievers? And does this understand extend to all believers across all religions?
Spinoza in the 17th Century and Einstein in the 20th Century independently observed the wonders of nature and came to the same conclusion, i.e. that the sheer laws of probability ruled out that everything we see and experience could have likely happened purely by chance. Both reasoned the possibility, even probability, of some kind of intelligence behind it all without attempting to define exactly what that intelligence was.At some stage, nearly everyone ponders the fundamental question: Does God exist? While we each explore our own paths to answer this question, many turn to science as the ultimate guide for unraveling life's most profound mysteries.
Is there a compelling, science-based argument that God exists?
In this essay, we’ll argue that recent discoveries in modern physics provide an argument that strongly suggests that an intelligent designer, God, is behind the universe and its laws. While this particular argument is based upon discoveries that are only a few decades old, the basic form of the argument follows in the footsteps of the age-old design argument.
The Design Argument for God’s Existence - Aish.com
Is there a compelling, science-based argument that God exists? Check this one out.aish.com
Neither. God brought the physical universe into being for a specific reason. Prior to that he had no reason or need for it.Yes. But if God always existed then he doesn't need to have created the universe because the universe can have existed for all time too.
Literally you have two choices.
1) Things can have existed for all time
2) Things can't have existed for all time.
Which is it?
Yes. But if God always existed then he doesn't need to have created the universe because the universe can have existed for all time too.
Literally you have two choices.
1) Things can have existed for all time
2) Things can't have existed for all time.
Which is it?
Well, regarding "heaven" there are three. Two can be seen, the third is another dimension, a spiritual one where God and the angels dwell. Most religions have a concept of a spiritual heaven.
God is not a physical "thing."
A universe that always existed would be an "actual infinite", and there are all sorts of logical problems with that idea, which is why one of the most influential mathematicians stated that an actual infinite is impossible in nature.
The cause of the universe has to be eternal, uncaused, and transcendent....and the only thing that fits that perfectly is God.
Neither. God brought the physical universe into being for a specific reason. Prior to that he had no reason or need for it.
Exactly. I don't think the 3rd heaven is a "distance" beyond first and second heaven (the clouds, then space) but a dimension that cannot be crossed over by physical beings (the created). The beings of the spirit world are inter dimensional travelers. They exist outside our universe but are able to travel back and forthWell, regarding "heaven" there are three. Two can be seen, the third is another dimension, a spiritual one where God and the angels dwell. Most religions have a concept of a spiritual heaven.
For Man. This is our training ground before we are given eternal life. It is a free gift, but we have to accept it. We are here to acquire the character of Jesus.How do you know God brought the universe into being "for a specific reason"? And what was that "specific reason"? And what need does God have of the universe?
Doesn't really matter whether God is a physical thing or not.
Unless you mean God is like Harry Potter, a fictional character.
If there are problems with the universe being "actual infinite" then the same problems exist for a God too.
Why does the universe have to be "eternal, uncaused and transcendent"?
Yes, it does absolutely matter. Your problem is that you keep thinking of God as a physical object, so you're comparing apples and oranges when you say "if there are problems with the universe being "actual infinite" then the same problems exist for a God too."
God is eternal in an entirely different way.
And I didn't say the universe has to be eternal, uncaused and transcendent, I said the cause (the First Cause) has to be. Because the alternative is an infinite regress, and again there are all sorts of problems with that idea - logical, philosophical and scientific.
However if God can exist and never have been created in any way, then the Universe can also have never been created and existed always.
AGAIN, one is physical and one is not. Apples and oranges. Your choice to ignore that is on you, and I'm not going to keep going around in circles with you. I have to eat anyway, so.... maybe others on this thread will reply to you.
Evidence?3) How about the greater likelihood that the unique 'Hebrew" culture passed into Egypt. IN most cultures when something totally foreign is introduced it gains tremendous curreny even when it is accompanied by rejection. We see eg around 300 BC maybe a million Jews in Alexandria whose main language is Greek
Either one is an enigma. Pick the one you like best.No, I don't keep thinking of God as a physical object.
However if God can exist and never have been created in any way, then the Universe can also have never been created and existed always.
You say "God is eternal in an entirely different way"... but that doesn't mean anything other than "if I say this, I can't be wrong".
God created the material universe including Eden-earth first for the pleasure of the angels that he created, and later for us.How do you know God brought the universe into being "for a specific reason"? And what was that "specific reason"? And what need does God have of the universe?
"Jacob's Ladder."Exactly. I don't think the 3rd heaven is a "distance" beyond first and second heaven (the clouds, then space) but a dimension that cannot be crossed over by physical beings (the created). The beings of the spirit world are inter dimensional travelers. They exist outside our universe but are able to travel back and forth
And that is why I think the concept of intelligent design should not be omitted from the science class and students should not be denied the opportunity to consider that along with what we can scientifically explain and should know.
Wrong.Nothing functions without being designed to do so.
God is not a physical "thing."
A universe that always existed would be an "actual infinite", and there are all sorts of logical problems with that idea, which is why one of the most influential mathematicians stated that an actual infinite is impossible in nature.
The cause of the universe has to be eternal, uncaused, and transcendent....and the only thing that fits that perfectly is God.
Then they said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”
