The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[P@triot]

No [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] - but it is only Democrats who expect someone else to pick up the bills.
............

I really wish rw's could explain how buying and paying for your own health care insurance is "expecting someone else to pick of the bills" while Socialist EMTALA that forces insured patients to pay the bills for the uninsured.

The truth is, lazy rw's like having their bills paid by Ds. If rw's believed in taking personal responsibility, they would be in favor of paying for own health care insurance.

God, the way insurance worked before, they had to pick up the slack for those who had no insurance. Now they complain that people have to pay for their own.

Oh would you drama queens quit pretending to be so dumb? This little game you are playing is...so....fucking....obnoxious [MENTION=32558]Luddly Neddite[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION]. You know damn well that people would could not afford health insurance before, still cannot afford health insurance.

The difference before was that I was largely shielded from the communism (a diluted portion partially hit me through health insurance and a direct portion hit me only when I had to go to the hospital). But now? Well now I am ass-fucked 24x7 by Obamacare. My taxes have absolutely skyrocketed. It's insane what I've been crushed with to pay for this bill which is not only a disaster, but guarantees free healthcare for the parasites out there.

 

[P@triot]

It's not a failure and it isn't going anywhere. You all should know by now, Rs have tried to repeal it 40 times.

It's here to stay. Yay.

Spoken like a true Dumbocrat (ie a quitter and a failure). To borrow a quote from Thomas Edison: "the Republican's have not failed 40 times - they've just figured out 40 ways to not repeal Obamacare". But the 41st time they do it, may be the magic number to getting Obamacare repealed. Won't you be pissed when that happens?

I don't have a crystal ball and so I have no idea what will happen tomorrow. But I do know when a Dumbocrat is wetting themselves with concern because they try desperately to convince themselves with false bravado to soothe their own nerves (ie "Obamacare is here to stay - yay"). Sweetie, how can you convince America when you're not even able to convince yourself?

The one thing you guys have going for you - a very long and very pitiful history of the Republican Party capitulating on your every whim.

The one thing you guys have going against you - the American people are fed up with your shenanigans and bypassed the GOP. They sent the Tea Party to Washington to stop you and they have done one hell of a job so far. If that party grows in size and power, you guys are so fucked.

 

[Sarah G]

I really wish rw's could explain how buying and paying for your own health care insurance is "expecting someone else to pick of the bills" while Socialist EMTALA that forces insured patients to pay the bills for the uninsured.

The truth is, lazy rw's like having their bills paid by Ds. If rw's believed in taking personal responsibility, they would be in favor of paying for own health care insurance.

God, the way insurance worked before, they had to pick up the slack for those who had no insurance. Now they complain that people have to pay for their own.

Oh would you drama queens quit pretending to be so dumb? This little game you are playing is...so....fucking....obnoxious [MENTION=32558]Luddly Neddite[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION]. You know damn well that people would could not afford health insurance before, still cannot afford health insurance.

The difference before was that I was largely shielded from the communism (a diluted portion partially hit me through health insurance and a direct portion hit me only when I had to go to the hospital). But now? Well now I am ass-fucked 24x7 by Obamacare. My taxes have absolutely skyrocketed. It's insane what I've been crushed with to pay for this bill which is not only a disaster, but guarantees free healthcare for the parasites out there.

Iow, you just hate Obama and anything he may have anything to do with?

 

[Billo_Really]

I will never accept being unconstitutionally forced by the federal government to purchase a good or service. I will never accept redistribution of wealth. And I will never accept socialism/marxism/communism.

You'll never accept growing up and becoming a responsible adult.

Where does it say in the Constitution we're supposed to keep and maintain over a 1000 military bases around the world? Where does it say it's okay for us to make up bullshit lies to attack sovereign nations that hadn't threatened us? Where does it say in the Constitution you're allowed to disobey the law?

The ACA is a fucking law! Yet you got republican controlled states deliberately not setting up their exchanges in violation of that law. Which I suppose you're fine with? Which means you don't support the Constitution.

And finally, wipe your ass with that "redistribution of wealth" mantra. You're perfectly okay with redistribution, as long as it's going upwards, not downwards.

 

[Seawytch]

There is a smaller pool of providers not larger, and this is due to the elimination of competition from out of state providers. So, Johnny in Vermont can't shop for a premium which meets their individual needs, that may be provided at the cost they seek, but its in Alabama. The needs, and where you shop, are determined by the government. That is not a good thing

-Geaux

They couldn't sell across state lines BEFORE the ACA so there is no "elimination of competition". The exchanges are creating competition.

Oh, and there IS a provision in the ACA that allows sales across state lines. Bet you didn't know that did you?

News for you Seawytch: Once you add a bunch of bureaucracy to the process, only companies who can afford lawyers can keep up with those who do. That's why many smaller medical practices had to close down because they couldn't hire staff or lawyers to follow the govt process for getting paid. Wake up, honey!

A. for those who benefit like Aetna or other companies that can survive while other companies bail out, they will deal with this
B. for those who wanted singlepayer and understand this step will force companies out and more control into the federal govt programs, they put up with this too

What are you talking about "honey" and how does it relate to the Affordable Care Act or purchasing insurance across state lines?

Please be honest that you are one who will benefit from B so you support this. The sooner you get where this is going you can help your fellow advocates so the system doesn't crash but you can transition to your single payer plan. If you don't see the roof coming down, you are wasting your time you could be using to build your next house to move into. so get going. if you support this transition then you are responsible for where it's going. these activists need help to organize if they will successfully set up singlepayer for themselves.

Our country will benefit from single payer, not me personally. I have two employer provided insurance plans that cover me and the family just fine.

 

[Seawytch]

No [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] - but it is only Democrats who expect someone else to pick up the bills.

The only thing I've ever advocated is to be left the hell alone, for people to take personal responsibility, and for the federal government to be forced to abide by the Constitution as they are legally bound to be. Gasp!

And for those basic American principles, your side considers me a "monster". Kind if speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Now what have you asked for? For every person - regardless of circumstance - to have all meals provided to them if they wish. For every person - regardless of circumstance - to have housing provided to them if they wish. For every person - regardless of circumstance - to have all healthcare needs provided to them if they wish. For every person - regardless of circumstance - to have all transportation provided to them if they wish. For every person - regardless of circumstance - to have all education provided to them if they wish. And for the federal government to trample the rights of any person and violate the law in order to achieve those desires.

Again, kind of speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Before the ACA most people got their insurance through their employer or spouses employer. That hasn't changed.

Once again, Seawytch displays her profound ignorance for the world...

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
UPS Dropping Spouses Health Coverage - Business Insider

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospital Staff Under The Knife: Layoffs Pick Up As ObamaCare Looms - Investors.com

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Citing Obamacare, Cleveland Clinic to Cut $300M, Warns of Layoffs - US News and World Report

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for plant shutdown - Fox 28: South Bend, Elkhart IN News, Weather, Sports

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Medical Company Smith & Nephew Lays Off Almost 100 People, Blames Obamacare

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospitals Suffering From Mass Layoffs Thanks to Obamacare - Katie Pavlich

You're right about one thing though [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] - you're definitely not allowing "perfect to be the enemy of good". Hell, you're not even allowing shitty to be the enemy of catstrophic. And Obamacare has literally been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be catastrophic . But all you know is that it was supported by a Dumbocrat, so you will play the loyal little lap dog and support it too - even in the face of all evidence which indicates it catastrophic.

None of what you quoted is the result of the Affordable Care Act. Sure, it's an easy scapegoat for asshole employers, but it isn't the cause.

The people that had shitty insurance with lifetime caps, high deductibles and large out of pocket expenses are finding their plans don't meet the requirements of the ACA. In other words, the ACA is preventing insurance companies from dishing up shit and charging you for it (only to drop you if you get sick). That means some people pay more, but more pay less.

 

[Seawytch]

Yes, I do believe that Education and Health Care are a right not a privilege that should be the same for each and every American.

This is astounding stupidity on a level I can't even begin to fathom. It's literally the equivalent of saying "I believe the world is flat" or "I believe that fire does not exist".

You don't get to "believe" what is a right and what isn't. Rights are explicitly spelled out in the U.S. Constitution and healthcare or education is not one of them.

Do you understand that you cannot make something which requires money to be a right because rights are guaranteed and you cannot guarantee money on someone else's behalf?

Do you understand that your rights end where mine begin and therefore you have absolutely zero grounds to force me to pay for someone else's needs or wants?

Of course you don't understand these things because you truly are painfully stupid. You're an immature, idealistic, fuck'n child. Of course it would be wonderful if every American could have the best healthcare in the world for free. But mature adults take that dream, examine all of the ideas/options to make it come to fruition, and them come to the scientific conclusion that it is literally impossible. It can't be "free" and you have no right to force someone else to pay for it. It really is that simple (and how frightening that you can't grasp something that simple).

Really? Where in the Constitution does it say I have to pay for a standing army?

Do we not provide education to every American regardless of their ability to pay? Yes, we do. Do we provide defense to every American regardless of their ability to pay? Yes, we do. Healthcare should be the same way.

Now call me some more names Puppy, it really helps your case to throw out ad hominems.

 

[P@triot]

Where does it say in the Constitution you're allowed to disobey the law?

It doesn't - which is why Obama should be impeached and then indicted. He's violated the highest law in the land (the Constitution) on multiple occassions now and even admitted as much.

The ACA is a fucking law!

Exactly. And can the president arbitrarily alter a law? Of course you don't know this because you are astoundingly ignorant of the Constitution, your government, current events, etc. - but that answer is unequivocally no. A law may only be altered by Congress. And yet, Obama has altered Obamacare on at least 5 occasions that I'm aware of. He has illegally bypassed Congress and acted like a dictator.

So since you're so jacked-up about the "fucking law" I have no doubt you support impeaching Obama and will call your representatives today demand as much, right [MENTION=2873]Billo_Really[/MENTION]?

PolitiFact | Tom Graves says Obama has changed the Affordable Care Act 19 times

Yet you got republican controlled states deliberately not setting up their exchanges in violation of that law. Which I suppose you're fine with? Which means you don't support the Constitution.

Well that's because outside of the 18 enumerated powers outlined in the U.S. Constitution, the states have complete and total power over the federal government (and controlling/regulating healthcare is not one of those 18 enumerated powers). Another fact you are simply unaware of because you do not know the laws of your own nation. So once again, my views align perfectly with the U.S. Constitution.

And finally, wipe your ass with that "redistribution of wealth" mantra. You're perfectly okay with redistribution, as long as it's going upwards, not downwards.

I can't - I'm too busy wiping my ass with your ignorant and uneducated arguments!

I really don't understand why you can't just have an honest conversation. You're greedy and lazy. As such, you want other people to provide for you. Just be honest about it rather making up absurd claims about the Constitution. After all, exposing your ignorance to the world is not helping your cause any.

 

[P@triot]

Yes, I do believe that Education and Health Care are a right not a privilege that should be the same for each and every American.

This is astounding stupidity on a level I can't even begin to fathom. It's literally the equivalent of saying "I believe the world is flat" or "I believe that fire does not exist".

You don't get to "believe" what is a right and what isn't. Rights are explicitly spelled out in the U.S. Constitution and healthcare or education is not one of them.

Do you understand that you cannot make something which requires money to be a right because rights are guaranteed and you cannot guarantee money on someone else's behalf?

Do you understand that your rights end where mine begin and therefore you have absolutely zero grounds to force me to pay for someone else's needs or wants?

Of course you don't understand these things because you truly are painfully stupid. You're an immature, idealistic, fuck'n child. Of course it would be wonderful if every American could have the best healthcare in the world for free. But mature adults take that dream, examine all of the ideas/options to make it come to fruition, and them come to the scientific conclusion that it is literally impossible. It can't be "free" and you have no right to force someone else to pay for it. It really is that simple (and how frightening that you can't grasp something that simple).

Really? Where in the Constitution does it say I have to pay for a standing army?

Simply unbelievable Where does it say you "have to pay for a standing army"?!? Right here sweetie:

Section 8. The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...

...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

...To raise and support Armies

...To provide and maintain a Navy

...To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

...To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress”

Excerpt From: States, United. “The United States Constitution.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=361557977

Do we not provide education to every American regardless of their ability to pay? Yes, we do. Do we provide defense to every American regardless of their ability to pay? Yes, we do. Healthcare should be the same way.

As we've covered over and over, defense is a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. So this is a nonsensical "argument" which at some point you have to realize makes you look like a fool.

As far as education, I don't know where you live, but where I live the federal government does not pay for education. That is paid for by my property taxes. And therein lies the key that you ignorant Dumbocrats simply can't figure out for some reason...

Everything you guys want (absolutely everything) is legal at the local level. You can have communism in your city or county SW - but you can't at the federal level because the Constitution makes that illegal. Our founders were absolutely brilliant and set it up that way so that everyone could live their own utopia. You can live in San Fransisco with with the flaming homo's who conduct themselves repulsively and inappropriately with their parades where they literally lead naked people down the middle of the streets on dog leashes and have communism to cover the cost of all of the AIDS, while I can go live in Dallas and live among people who take personal responsibility for their own lives and their own actions and who leave me the fuck alone. We're both happy SW. Everybody wins.

So why don't Dumbocrats follow the Constitution which ends with everybody getting exactly what they want [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? I know the exact reason. Let's see if your honest enough to say them. There are two of them and they are pretty repulsive.

 

[P@triot]

Before the ACA most people got their insurance through their employer or spouses employer. That hasn't changed.

Once again, Seawytch displays her profound ignorance for the world...

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
UPS Dropping Spouses Health Coverage - Business Insider

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospital Staff Under The Knife: Layoffs Pick Up As ObamaCare Looms - Investors.com

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Citing Obamacare, Cleveland Clinic to Cut $300M, Warns of Layoffs - US News and World Report

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for plant shutdown - Fox 28: South Bend, Elkhart IN News, Weather, Sports

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Medical Company Smith & Nephew Lays Off Almost 100 People, Blames Obamacare

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospitals Suffering From Mass Layoffs Thanks to Obamacare - Katie Pavlich

You're right about one thing though [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] - you're definitely not allowing "perfect to be the enemy of good". Hell, you're not even allowing shitty to be the enemy of catstrophic. And Obamacare has literally been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be catastrophic . But all you know is that it was supported by a Dumbocrat, so you will play the loyal little lap dog and support it too - even in the face of all evidence which indicates it catastrophic.

None of what you quoted is the result of the Affordable Care Act. Sure, it's an easy scapegoat for asshole employers, but it isn't the cause.

"Easy scapegoat for asshole employers"? SW - the Cleveland Clinic supported Obamacare and even hosted Barack Obama on his ACA tour to garner support for it 4 years ago. Jesus, do your homework for once. You're embarrassing yourself by randomly throwing feces at a wall like a little monkey and hoping some of it sticks.

Besides SW - you made the outrageous claim that "Before the ACA most people got their insurance through their employer or spouses employer. That hasn't changed". Are you admitting now that you were wrong and that has, in fact, changed? It has changed and you know it sweetie. Now you're just moving the goalposts again out of desperation.

So now that we've disproven that Hail Mary, would you like to try again? You have to trust me SW - this is so much easier if you do your homework instead of making up answers/excuses as you go.

The people that had shitty insurance with lifetime caps, high deductibles and large out of pocket expenses are finding their plans don't meet the requirements of the ACA. In other words, the ACA is preventing insurance companies from dishing up shit and charging you for it (only to drop you if you get sick). That means some people pay more, but more pay less.

Even if an insurance company "dished you up shit" you were free at ANY time to drop them and go do business with someone else. That's the beauty of the free market and why it works flawlessly (but that requires personal responsibility of course - something a lazy liberal is unwilling to do). Unfortunately for all of us, we're not able to drop the federal government.

 

[P@triot]

God, the way insurance worked before, they had to pick up the slack for those who had no insurance. Now they complain that people have to pay for their own.

Oh would you drama queens quit pretending to be so dumb? This little game you are playing is...so....fucking....obnoxious [MENTION=32558]Luddly Neddite[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION]. You know damn well that people would could not afford health insurance before, still cannot afford health insurance.

The difference before was that I was largely shielded from the communism (a diluted portion partially hit me through health insurance and a direct portion hit me only when I had to go to the hospital). But now? Well now I am ass-fucked 24x7 by Obamacare. My taxes have absolutely skyrocketed. It's insane what I've been crushed with to pay for this bill which is not only a disaster, but guarantees free healthcare for the parasites out there.

Iow, you just hate Obama and anything he may have anything to do with?

Wow - what an intelligent response [MENTION=18645]Sarah G[/MENTION]. Just out of curiosity, instead of raising my taxes, had Obama lowered them - do you think I would hate him? Instead of taking my freedoms, had Obama increased them - do you think I would hate him? Instead of trampling all over the Constitution, had Obama upheld it - do you think I would hate him? Really?

 

[P@triot]

Before the ACA most people got their insurance through their employer or spouses employer. That hasn't changed.

Once again, Seawytch displays her profound ignorance for the world...

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
UPS Dropping Spouses Health Coverage - Business Insider

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospital Staff Under The Knife: Layoffs Pick Up As ObamaCare Looms - Investors.com

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Citing Obamacare, Cleveland Clinic to Cut $300M, Warns of Layoffs - US News and World Report

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for plant shutdown - Fox 28: South Bend, Elkhart IN News, Weather, Sports

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Medical Company Smith & Nephew Lays Off Almost 100 People, Blames Obamacare

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospitals Suffering From Mass Layoffs Thanks to Obamacare - Katie Pavlich

You're right about one thing though [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] - you're definitely not allowing "perfect to be the enemy of good". Hell, you're not even allowing shitty to be the enemy of catstrophic. And Obamacare has literally been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be catastrophic . But all you know is that it was supported by a Dumbocrat, so you will play the loyal little lap dog and support it too - even in the face of all evidence which indicates it catastrophic.

None of what you quoted is the result of the Affordable Care Act. Sure, it's an easy scapegoat for asshole employers, but it isn't the cause.

The people that had shitty insurance with lifetime caps, high deductibles and large out of pocket expenses are finding their plans don't meet the requirements of the ACA. In other words, the ACA is preventing insurance companies from dishing up shit and charging you for it (only to drop you if you get sick). That means some people pay more, but more pay less.

Wow - yet another Democrat politician (with way more skin in the game than you will EVER have) admits that Obamacare is a train wreck. Wonder why you can't admit as much? Oh that's right, you're the very definition of partisan hack. You'd rather see the nation collapse or another 9/11 where 3,000 Americans die than ever criticize Obama...

“It should be a transition year, for one year there should be no fines, and let’s work through the problems,” Manchin said on Fox News’s “The O’Reilly Factor” on Wednesday. “We’ve got a lot of problems. They have been identified. I think everybody has recognized them. Let’s fix it.”

Joe Manchin wants Obamacare transition year - POLITICO.com

 

[Billo_Really]

It doesn't - which is why Obama should be impeached and then indicted. He's violated the highest law in the land (the Constitution) on multiple occassions now and even admitted as much.

You're going to have to name at least 3 examples to make that claim valid.

Exactly. And can the president arbitrarily alter a law? Of course you don't know this because you are astoundingly ignorant of the Constitution, your government, current events, etc. - but that answer is unequivocally no. A law may only be altered by Congress. And yet, Obama has altered Obamacare on at least 5 occasions that I'm aware of. He has illegally bypassed Congress and acted like a dictator.

So since you're so jacked-up about the "fucking law" I have no doubt you support impeaching Obama and will call your representatives today demand as much, right [MENTION=2873]Billo_Really[/MENTION]?

PolitiFact | Tom Graves says Obama has changed the Affordable Care Act 19 times

You need to read your links a little more carefully before you post them, because this one doesn't prove what you said it does. Politifact stated the only thing Graves got right was the number (19), he overexaggerated Obama's involvement.

From your link...

Based on the analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, Graves has the right number. However, he simplifies the way that many of those 19 changes came about, and by doing that, makes it seem as though the president were more directly involved.

But hey, try again, maybe your luck will change.

Well that's because outside of the 18 enumerated powers outlined in the U.S. Constitution, the states have complete and total power over the federal government (and controlling/regulating healthcare is not one of those 18 enumerated powers). Another fact you are simply unaware of because you do not know the laws of your own nation. So once again, my views align perfectly with the U.S. Constitution..

Congress is in charge of making any law that will ensure the general welfare of the country. There is no "shared" authority with the States. The Supremacy Clause made that pretty evident.

I can't - I'm too busy wiping my ass with your ignorant and uneducated arguments!

I really don't understand why you can't just have an honest conversation. You're greedy and lazy. As such, you want other people to provide for you. Just be honest about it rather making up absurd claims about the Constitution. After all, exposing your ignorance to the world is not helping your cause any.

I've worked my entire life and you call me "greedy and lazy", then ask why "I" can't have an honest conversation.

You talk like you're 14 years old!

 

[Seawytch]

Once again, Seawytch displays her profound ignorance for the world...

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
UPS Dropping Spouses Health Coverage - Business Insider

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospital Staff Under The Knife: Layoffs Pick Up As ObamaCare Looms - Investors.com

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Citing Obamacare, Cleveland Clinic to Cut $300M, Warns of Layoffs - US News and World Report

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for plant shutdown - Fox 28: South Bend, Elkhart IN News, Weather, Sports

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Medical Company Smith & Nephew Lays Off Almost 100 People, Blames Obamacare

Are these people still getting their insurance through their employer or spouses employer?
Hospitals Suffering From Mass Layoffs Thanks to Obamacare - Katie Pavlich

You're right about one thing though [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] - you're definitely not allowing "perfect to be the enemy of good". Hell, you're not even allowing shitty to be the enemy of catstrophic. And Obamacare has literally been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be catastrophic . But all you know is that it was supported by a Dumbocrat, so you will play the loyal little lap dog and support it too - even in the face of all evidence which indicates it catastrophic.

None of what you quoted is the result of the Affordable Care Act. Sure, it's an easy scapegoat for asshole employers, but it isn't the cause.

"Easy scapegoat for asshole employers"? SW - the Cleveland Clinic supported Obamacare and even hosted Barack Obama on his ACA tour to garner support for it 4 years ago. Jesus, do your homework for once. You're embarrassing yourself by randomly throwing feces at a wall like a little monkey and hoping some of it sticks.

Besides SW - you made the outrageous claim that "Before the ACA most people got their insurance through their employer or spouses employer. That hasn't changed". Are you admitting now that you were wrong and that has, in fact, changed? It has changed and you know it sweetie. Now you're just moving the goalposts again out of desperation.

So now that we've disproven that Hail Mary, would you like to try again? You have to trust me SW - this is so much easier if you do your homework instead of making up answers/excuses as you go.

The people that had shitty insurance with lifetime caps, high deductibles and large out of pocket expenses are finding their plans don't meet the requirements of the ACA. In other words, the ACA is preventing insurance companies from dishing up shit and charging you for it (only to drop you if you get sick). That means some people pay more, but more pay less.

Even if an insurance company "dished you up shit" you were free at ANY time to drop them and go do business with someone else. That's the beauty of the free market and why it works flawlessly (but that requires personal responsibility of course - something a lazy liberal is unwilling to do). Unfortunately for all of us, we're not able to drop the federal government.

Oh Puppy, you Fox dupe. Get out of the bubble every once in a while.

Obamacare Isn't Really Taking Away Jobs: Cleveland Clinic Edition

"We felt health-care reform was absolutely necessary," Sheil said. "This is the new normal. This is where hospitals have to focus to be viable in the long run. This is not doomsday for the clinic. We're still growing — we're still hiring. The hardest thing is when it affects people."

Actually, much of what the Cleveland Clinic system is doing follows the recommendations of health-care analysts closely. For example, it has consolidated closely located neonatal intensive care units, because high volumes tend to lead to better results. It's working to reduce the number of procedures its staff performs, since in the current system "physicians are rewarded to do more, not to do the right thing for the patient," as Sheil put it. And there's a new focus on chronic diseases, which are an increasingly important and costly area for treatment.

Think of it this way: These are all steps that the Cleveland Clinic was likely to take, but Obamacare implementation is acting as a catalyst, spurring the clinic to adopt them now rather than on a slower timeline.

This isn't to absolve the ACA of any role in the cuts at all. The revenue reduction because of the law is real. Pretty much everyone agrees that the spiraling costs of health care in the U.S. threaten — through Medicaid and Medicare — the nation's long-term fiscal health.

Changes like what the clinic is doing, and the reduced reimbursements, do reduce costs. But of course the flip side of "costs" is "revenue." The end result may not be zero-sum — there's good reason to think lower medical costs would be good for the economy and the deficit in the long term — it will mean reshuffling at providers like the Cleveland Clinic in the short term. Whether you think that's a good idea probably has a lot to do with your political outlook — and also with whether you happen to be, say a doctor or an uninsured person.​

 

[Seawytch]

This is astounding stupidity on a level I can't even begin to fathom. It's literally the equivalent of saying "I believe the world is flat" or "I believe that fire does not exist".

You don't get to "believe" what is a right and what isn't. Rights are explicitly spelled out in the U.S. Constitution and healthcare or education is not one of them.

Do you understand that you cannot make something which requires money to be a right because rights are guaranteed and you cannot guarantee money on someone else's behalf?

Do you understand that your rights end where mine begin and therefore you have absolutely zero grounds to force me to pay for someone else's needs or wants?

Of course you don't understand these things because you truly are painfully stupid. You're an immature, idealistic, fuck'n child. Of course it would be wonderful if every American could have the best healthcare in the world for free. But mature adults take that dream, examine all of the ideas/options to make it come to fruition, and them come to the scientific conclusion that it is literally impossible. It can't be "free" and you have no right to force someone else to pay for it. It really is that simple (and how frightening that you can't grasp something that simple).

Really? Where in the Constitution does it say I have to pay for a standing army?

Simply unbelievable Where does it say you "have to pay for a standing army"?!? Right here sweetie:

Section 8. The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...

...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

...To raise and support Armies

But not maintain, Puppy, Fox dupe.

...To provide and maintain a Navy

Navy is not a standing army. Washington didn't want a standing army...hence all that stuff about militias.

...To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

No standing Army puppy.

Do we not provide education to every American regardless of their ability to pay? Yes, we do. Do we provide defense to every American regardless of their ability to pay? Yes, we do. Healthcare should be the same way.

As we've covered over and over, defense is a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. So this is a nonsensical "argument" which at some point you have to realize makes you look like a fool.

As far as education, I don't know where you live, but where I live the federal government does not pay for education. That is paid for by my property taxes. And therein lies the key that you ignorant Dumbocrats simply can't figure out for some reason...

Really? The Public Schools where you live take no federal education dollars at all? Sorry, you're gonna have to support that one with some actual facts, not ass facts (those pulled from your hindquarters)

Everything you guys want (absolutely everything) is legal at the local level. You can have communism in your city or county SW - but you can't at the federal level because the Constitution makes that illegal. Our founders were absolutely brilliant and set it up that way so that everyone could live their own utopia. You can live in San Fransisco with with the flaming homo's who conduct themselves repulsively and inappropriately with their parades where they literally lead naked people down the middle of the streets on dog leashes and have communism to cover the cost of all of the AIDS, while I can go live in Dallas and live among people who take personal responsibility for their own lives and their own actions and who leave me the fuck alone. We're both happy SW. Everybody wins.

So why don't Dumbocrats follow the Constitution which ends with everybody getting exactly what they want [MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION]? I know the exact reason. Let's see if your honest enough to say them. There are two of them and they are pretty repulsive.

Puppy, when you go off on your little "fags are bad" rants, you stop making any sense (not that you made much to begin with)

 

[Zoom-boing]

Health insurance isn't "free" ...for anyone. If something with health insurance is listed as "free" it simply means that someone else is paying for it.

Why do leftists scream that prior to the (un)aca we were all paying for those who used ERs as their personal doctors office and hospital costs were jacked because of those who did not have insurance but now that the (un)aca has passed and things are suddenly "free", you think that we (me and you) are still not paying for all those ER and jacked hospital costs?

What? People have to get their own insurance now so that solves the problem? Many people who couldn't afford it prior to (un)aca still can't afford it now, so we (me and you) pick up their tab. Deductibles are maxed at $6K or so? And? Who do you think pays for anything above that? We (me and you). Pre-existing condition? No problem! You're a higher risk to insure but don't worry, insurance companies won't charge you more (they can't!). Guess who picks up that cost? Bingo, we (me and you) do.

Prior to (un)aca, we (me and you) paid for everyone who didn't. Post (un)aca, we (me and you) pay for everyone who doesn't plus we get the gov't taking over part of the economy plus we get another big-assed entitlement program plus we have another gov't bureaucracy plus we have gov't telling you that you have to purchase a product or get fined plus we have gov't we have gov't taking away choice.

It was a problem before. Now it's a boondoggle. And the left says that's just dandy.

 

[P@triot]

Congress is in charge of making any law that will ensure the general welfare of the country.

Once again, this is an astounding display of ignorance. Can Congress create a law that says Catholicism is illegal? Can Congress create a law that says firearms are illegal? Can Congress create a law that says speaking out against Congress is illegal? Can Congress create a law that says the press is illegal?

If Congress can create "any" law they want - why do we have a Supreme Court? I mean, if Congress is empowered to create "any" law they want, then a law couldn't possibly be challenged.

Furthermore, Obamacare does not ensure the GENERAL welfare. It ensures that a specific minority benefits at the detriment of another specific minority. So even under this desperate view, you still fail.

gen·er·al
ˈjenərəl/
adjective
1. affecting or concerning all or most people, places, or things; widespread.

Congress cannot create "any" law they want and even a small child suffering from Down Syndrome know as much. I'm just curious - why do you want to display to display your ignorance to the world? Is it just that you're too lazy to read and do your homework? You keep saying shit that simply isn't true and even you Dumbocrat brethren are cringing at you comments. They are all wishing you would shut up because you're making them look so bad.

There is no "shared" authority with the States.

Well for once you got something right - though this one was by pure, blind, dumb accident and not because you actually know what you're talking about. There is no "shared" authority. The states have full authority over the federal government save for the 18 enumerated powers outlined in the U.S. Constitution. And do you want to take a wild guess (and that's all it would be with you) where the federal government received those 18 enumerated powers from? That's right Sally - the STATES. The states delegated those responsibilities to the federal government. If the states didn't have power over the federal government, how could they possibly delegate responsibilities to them (since you're a parasite you wouldn't know this - but people who work know that you don't delegate responsibilities to your boss, your boss delegates responsibilities to you).

The Supremacy Clause made that pretty evident.

You can't look up a term and use it without understanding it Sally. The Supremacy Clause states that federal law trumps state or local laws WITH REGARDS TO THOSE SPECIFIC 18 ENUMERATED POWERS and with regards to the rights spelled out in the Constitution Sally. So a state can't can't coin their own money because that is one of the 18 enumerated powers of the federal government. A state can't take away my freedom of speech, because that is protected by the U.S. Constitution.

Do you get it now? How humiliating that you heard a term and posted it without realizing what it was...

 

[P@triot]

PolitiFact | Tom Graves says Obama has changed the Affordable Care Act 19 times

You need to read your links a little more carefully before you post them, because this one doesn't prove what you said it does. Politifact stated the only thing Graves got right was the number (19), he overexaggerated Obama's involvement.

From your link...
But hey, try again, maybe your luck will change.

Watching you Dumbocrats wildly flailing around trying to find a spin for everything Obama does is hilarious.

Sweetie, Obama isn't allowed any involvement in altering the law. That is strictly the responsibility of Congress. And he has altered Obamacare multiple times now on his own.

Here he is Sally, on video, from his own fucking website (WhiteHouse.Gov) admitting that he altered Obamacare all by himself (but claiming the decision was not his alone - that he "consulted" with business owners across America). Well guess what Sally - business owners don't get to alter Obamacare either. Only Congress can do that. And they haven't altered it. Not once. It has only been altered - ILLEGALLY - by Obama.

Forward to the 38:00 mark Sally - and watch your homosexaul fantasy ADMIT that he violated the U.S. Constitution:
President Obama Holds a Press Conference | The White House

And here is a fun link about the moment Obama admitted he violated the U.S. Constitution:
Obama: I Had To Violate The Constitution

And here is the transcripts as well Sally:

Obama: Ed Henry.

Ed Henry: I hope you would defend me as well.

Obmaa: I would.

Ed Henry: Okay, thank you. I want to ask you about two important dates that are coming up. October 1st you’ve got to implement your signature health care law. You recently decided on your own to delay a key part of that. And I wonder, if you pick and choose what parts of the law to implement, couldn’t your successor down the road pick and choose whether they’ll implement your law and keep it in place?

Obama: With respect to health care, I didn’t simply choose to delay this on my own. This was in consultation with businesses all across the country, many of whom are supportive of the Affordable Care Act, but -- and many of whom, by the way, are already providing health insurance to their employees but were concerned about the operational details of changing their HR operations, if they’ve got a lot of employees, which could be costly for them, and them suggesting that there may be easier ways to do this.

Now, what’s true, Ed, is, is that in a normal political environment, it would have been easier for me to simply call up the Speaker and say, you know what, this is a tweak that doesn’t go to the essence of the law -- it has to do with, for example, are we able to simplify the attestation of employers as to whether they’re already providing health insurance or not -- it looks like there may be some better ways to do this; let's make a technical change to the law. That would be the normal thing that I would prefer to do.

But we're not in a normal atmosphere around here when it comes to "Obamacare." (In other words, since the Republicans won't do what I want them to do, I simply violate the U.S. Constitution and do what I want done anyway because I'm an arrogant asshole who believes I deserve dictatorial powers due to my supreme intellect).

Once again B.O. - you just got owned. Words - on video and right from your own God's mouth - admitting that he violated the U.S. Constitution. Now remember how you screamed the ACA was the "law!!!!"? Since you're such a law-abiding citizen, I can fully expect you to call all of your representatives this afternoon and demand that Obama be impeached (and after that, indicted) for violating the U.S. Constitution as well as his oath to uphold & defend it, correct?

Game. Set. Match.

 

[P@triot]

None of what you quoted is the result of the Affordable Care Act. Sure, it's an easy scapegoat for asshole employers, but it isn't the cause.

"Easy scapegoat for asshole employers"? SW - the Cleveland Clinic supported Obamacare and even hosted Barack Obama on his ACA tour to garner support for it 4 years ago. Jesus, do your homework for once. You're embarrassing yourself by randomly throwing feces at a wall like a little monkey and hoping some of it sticks.

Besides SW - you made the outrageous claim that "Before the ACA most people got their insurance through their employer or spouses employer. That hasn't changed". Are you admitting now that you were wrong and that has, in fact, changed? It has changed and you know it sweetie. Now you're just moving the goalposts again out of desperation.

So now that we've disproven that Hail Mary, would you like to try again? You have to trust me SW - this is so much easier if you do your homework instead of making up answers/excuses as you go.

The people that had shitty insurance with lifetime caps, high deductibles and large out of pocket expenses are finding their plans don't meet the requirements of the ACA. In other words, the ACA is preventing insurance companies from dishing up shit and charging you for it (only to drop you if you get sick). That means some people pay more, but more pay less.

Even if an insurance company "dished you up shit" you were free at ANY time to drop them and go do business with someone else. That's the beauty of the free market and why it works flawlessly (but that requires personal responsibility of course - something a lazy liberal is unwilling to do). Unfortunately for all of us, we're not able to drop the federal government.

Oh Puppy, you Fox dupe. Get out of the bubble every once in a while.

Obamacare Isn't Really Taking Away Jobs: Cleveland Clinic Edition

Uh-oh, wytchey go all twitchey again when hit with facts.

Google it for yourself sweetie - the Cleveland Clinic made the announcement. Because they are in Obama's pocket, he called them furious and they have since changed their story. But that doesn't change the fact that they ADMITTED to the world that they have cut $300+ million per year from their budget - and thus cut employees - because of Obamacare! You lose wytchey...

 

[P@triot]

Dave Ramsey Says People Will Pay More for Obamacare — It’s Simple Math

Everyone Will Pay for Obamacare -- Its Simple Math - video