The GOP's "aversion" to responsibility

[Nyvin]

Deficit = Shrinking
Debt = Growing

That when our government is "shut down" and tax revenues are coming in normally, that the debt is still growing shows how ridiculously out of control spending is.

This is kind of the continual right wing rhetoric that's just a "catch all" arguement...

DEBT SUPER HIGH! NEED CUTS!

but they never really explain how they'd get it down to what apparently would be acceptable. Cut food stamps? okay...cut unemployment? okay....that stuff still doesn't create a surplus.

Cut Medicare or Soc security? Can't. The public has been investing in those programs for YEARS and the voters will be pissed if you touch them (elderly people vote like crazy btw...)

So what do you do? Where do you cut? How exactly do you attain a surplus? It's not as easy as you think.

 

[squeeze berry]

Why is it so hard to get Republicans, even just USMB Republicans to take responsibility for anything?

Iraq
the debt
The Bush Tax Cuts
The economic meltdown
The government shutdown
The votes for drugs bill
Cutting embassy security

How come they refuse to take responsibility for anything? They used reconciliation three times under Bush and now ask "for what?"

Can someone explain it?

Remember how they screamed "you are with us or with the terrorists" and now they say Democrats should have stopped us from going into Iraq.

Remember how the Bush Tax Cuts were going to be so good for the country and the extension even better? Now they blame Obama.

They quietly raised embassy security by two billion. Why? If it wasn't needed before Benghazi?

Remember when they said deregulation would create jobs? Instead we got a meltdown.

So which of these will the take responsibility for? None?

What did they use reconciliation on? Three times?

Forever blaming Democrats. But where do they take responsibility?

who irresponssibly wants to spend more than is earned?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Holy crap..seriously???

If you add 500 to -1000 do you have a positive number?

If you take 500 billion away from a deficit of 1 trillion do you suddenly have a surplus??

Really? I feel like I'm talking to children (honest!)

Answer the question.


Why raise the debt ceiling if our debt is shrinking?




http://www.usdebtclock.org/art2/Debt-Clock-2013-2.jpg



Sure looks like our debt is going down!

Deficit = Shrinking
Debt = Growing

Nice desperate shake up of words there, but it doesn't fool anyone.

Obama’s Amazing Deficit: Myths and Facts

 

[kaz]

Deficit = Shrinking
Debt = Growing

That when our government is "shut down" and tax revenues are coming in normally, that the debt is still growing shows how ridiculously out of control spending is.

This is kind of the continual right wing rhetoric that's just a "catch all" arguement...

DEBT SUPER HIGH! NEED CUTS!

but they never really explain how they'd get it down to what apparently would be acceptable. Cut food stamps? okay...cut unemployment? okay....that stuff still doesn't create a surplus.

Cut Medicare or Soc security? Can't. The public has been investing in those programs for YEARS and the voters will be pissed if you touch them (elderly people vote like crazy btw...)

So what do you do? Where do you cut? How exactly do you attain a surplus? It's not as easy as you think.

Hell yeah, I'd eliminate social security and medicare and all other welfare programs, which are Unconstitutional at the Federal level anyway.

In addition, we could eliminate the departments of Education, Energy, Commerce and keep going until cabinet meetings look more like a bridge club.

We could also cut our military in half, bring it home and make it defensive in nature instead of fighting all the foreign wars.

However, even if you and the Republicans don't have the stones for actual cuts, simply agreeing to have zero growth government for the next couple decades would eliminate deficits while still being the massive government that you love.

 

[kaz]

Ending the war on drugs, which is a war on liberty would be huge too. And turn a tax drain into a tax producer.

 

[Nyvin]

Hell yeah, I'd eliminate social security and medicare and all other welfare programs, which are Unconstitutional at the Federal level anyway.

In addition, we could eliminate the departments of Education, Energy, Commerce and keep going until cabinet meetings look more like a bridge club.

We could also cut our military in half, bring it home and make it defensive in nature instead of fighting all the foreign wars.

However, even if you and the Republicans don't have the stones for actual cuts, simply agreeing to have zero growth government for the next couple decades would eliminate deficits while still being the massive government that you love.

People have been paying into Social Security and Medicare for DECADES! It's not just a free give away (It can't really even be called welfare). If you suddenly just drop all payments you better have some kind of return process for all the money the people put into the system or you're going to have some PISSED OFF voters next election.

Eliminate Dept of Education....*rolls eyes* oh boy....

Cutting military in half is feasible, but it also has a severe political backlash.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

Holy crap..seriously???

If you add 500 to -1000 do you have a positive number?

If you take 500 billion away from a deficit of 1 trillion do you suddenly have a surplus??

Really? I feel like I'm talking to children (honest!)

Answer the question.


Why raise the debt ceiling if our debt is shrinking?




http://www.usdebtclock.org/art2/Debt-Clock-2013-2.jpg



Sure looks like our debt is going down!

Deficit = Shrinking
Debt = Growing

Nice desperate shake up of words there, but it doesn't fool anyone.

Deficit??? Debt???? Are you really that stupid?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Simply pointing out that the deficit has exceeded $1 trillion a year lately, and that that is a really big number, isn't much of an economic argument. If you're worried about deficits, you need to say why." - http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...economist-pundit-divide-on-debt-and-deficits/

 

[kaz]

Hell yeah, I'd eliminate social security and medicare and all other welfare programs, which are Unconstitutional at the Federal level anyway.

In addition, we could eliminate the departments of Education, Energy, Commerce and keep going until cabinet meetings look more like a bridge club.

We could also cut our military in half, bring it home and make it defensive in nature instead of fighting all the foreign wars.

However, even if you and the Republicans don't have the stones for actual cuts, simply agreeing to have zero growth government for the next couple decades would eliminate deficits while still being the massive government that you love.

People have been paying into Social Security and Medicare for DECADES! It's not just a free give away (It can't really even be called welfare). If you suddenly just drop all payments you better have some kind of return process for all the money the people put into the system or you're going to have some PISSED OFF voters next election.

Eliminate Dept of Education....*rolls eyes* oh boy....

Cutting military in half is feasible, but it also has a severe political backlash.

Here's the problem, none of the money was saved, they were just taxes like any other taxes. Now they are coming to us saying they paid taxes and they want it back from me. But a tip, I can do that to my kids...

I'll pass on both. They are owed nothing because they didn't save squat.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

So Nyvin, you really want be to believe that when I hear "deficit" from some politician, that I'm supposed to think that the National Debt is shrinking?

How old are you? 6???

Deficit is the yearly amount of spending that exceeds tax revenues for that year.
Debt is the accumulated Deficits over time.

 

[Nyvin]

So Nyvin, you really want be to believe that when I hear "deficit" from some politician, that I'm supposed to think that the National Debt is shrinking?

How old are you? 6???

Deficit is the yearly amount of spending that exceeds tax revenues for that year.
Debt is the accumulated Deficits over time.

I have no clue where you're getting this or where this is coming from...

 

[kaz]

"Simply pointing out that the deficit has exceeded $1 trillion a year lately, and that that is a really big number, isn't much of an economic argument. If you're worried about deficits, you need to say why." - Joe Scarborough, Paul Krugman and the economist-pundit divide on debt and deficits - The Washington Post

Barrack Obama: Bush took "out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents – #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic."

 

[Nyvin]

Here's the problem, none of the money was saved, they were just taxes like any other taxes. Now they are coming to us saying they paid taxes and they want it back from me. But a tip, I can do that to my kids...

I'll pass on both. They are owed nothing because they didn't save squat.

The line on their paychecks read "Medicare Tax" and "Social Security Tax"

Like it or not...that's what they were charged. That's what they paid...sometimes for a period of 50+ years! Saying they didn't "save squat" changes nothing, if you enter a contract to take someone's money and later on you'll give them a return, you do have to honor that contract. The way the government validated taking that money was telling them when they're older they'll be taken care of.

Voters know this. When your life depends on those government systems...you will defend them pretty much to the death (literally...)

think of how much they "would've" saved had they not been taxed?

 

[LTCArmyRet]

The SS system was fucked when Nixon made it part of the general fund and then the subsequent "borrowing" against that money. The result was instead of people being paid with what they had paid in with interest that had been earned, they were paid by monies being currently paid in by current wage earners. The only way to save the SS program is by some serious modifications.
1. Take it out of the general funds and put it back into it's separate fund category as it was originally.
2. Phase it out for those that would become eligible around 2045. They would pay less and less each year allowing them to contribute to their individual retirement plans.
3. This would increase the volume on the exchange markets, thereby improving the financial markets, lowering interest rates, increasing individual estate values, etc..........
4. Reduce the size of the government by eliminating the SS administration, reduce IRS workload, etc.....


$.60 of every dollar paid into SS goes toward the administrative costs. If a private business operated with a 60% overhead, there would be record bankruptcies!!! If you want an effective program, don't let the government get its hands in it.

 

[kaz]

Here's the problem, none of the money was saved, they were just taxes like any other taxes. Now they are coming to us saying they paid taxes and they want it back from me. But a tip, I can do that to my kids...

I'll pass on both. They are owed nothing because they didn't save squat.

The line on their paychecks read "Medicare Tax" and "Social Security Tax"

Like it or not...that's what they were charged. That's what they paid...sometimes for a period of 50+ years! Saying they didn't "save squat" changes nothing, if you enter a contract to take someone's money and later on you'll give them a return, you do have to honor that contract.

The government they made the "contract" with was them, not me. Government charged them taxes, then spent the money. That government was elected by them, not me.

Now they are coming to me and saying pay taxes and give it to us. And do the same to your children. It's not just ridiculous, it's immoral. People need to pay for their own government. Giving the bills to us, their children, is pathetic. So no, it's not a valid "contract." Their contract was with themselves, not me.

 

[LTCArmyRet]

So Nyvin, you really want be to believe that when I hear "deficit" from some politician, that I'm supposed to think that the National Debt is shrinking?

How old are you? 6???

Deficit is the yearly amount of spending that exceeds tax revenues for that year.
Debt is the accumulated Deficits over time.

I have no clue where you're getting this or where this is coming from...

I know you don't, you haven't said one thing that even comes close to reality, MORON. Some advice, Go learn how this shit really works and quit posting and exposing your stupidity.

 

[Nyvin]

Here's the problem, none of the money was saved, they were just taxes like any other taxes. Now they are coming to us saying they paid taxes and they want it back from me. But a tip, I can do that to my kids...

I'll pass on both. They are owed nothing because they didn't save squat.

The line on their paychecks read "Medicare Tax" and "Social Security Tax"

Like it or not...that's what they were charged. That's what they paid...sometimes for a period of 50+ years! Saying they didn't "save squat" changes nothing, if you enter a contract to take someone's money and later on you'll give them a return, you do have to honor that contract.

The government they made the "contract" with was them, not me. Government charged them taxes, then spent the money. That government was elected by them, not me.

Now they are coming to me and saying pay taxes and give it to us. And do the same to your children. It's not just ridiculous, it's immoral. People need to pay for their own government. Giving the bills to us, their children, is pathetic. So no, it's not a valid "contract." Their contract was with themselves, not me.

Okay..so for the 10+ years I've been collecting paychecks and getting taxed for Medicare and Social Security...that's all going to be for nothing? Will I be getting my return check for that (quite large) investment? It's not just people retired "right now" it's a constantly running program, people are still paying money into it and still joining in on getting benefits.

 

[Nyvin]

So Nyvin, you really want be to believe that when I hear "deficit" from some politician, that I'm supposed to think that the National Debt is shrinking?

How old are you? 6???

Deficit is the yearly amount of spending that exceeds tax revenues for that year.
Debt is the accumulated Deficits over time.

I have no clue where you're getting this or where this is coming from...

I know you don't, you haven't said one thing that even comes close to reality, MORON. Some advice, Go learn how this shit really works and quit posting and exposing your stupidity.

Try to put together some quotes of mine showing me what I said validates what you're posting. I wasn't saying the debt is shrinking, if I did I already said it was a mix up of words

 

[LTCArmyRet]

The line on their paychecks read "Medicare Tax" and "Social Security Tax"

Like it or not...that's what they were charged. That's what they paid...sometimes for a period of 50+ years! Saying they didn't "save squat" changes nothing, if you enter a contract to take someone's money and later on you'll give them a return, you do have to honor that contract.

The government they made the "contract" with was them, not me. Government charged them taxes, then spent the money. That government was elected by them, not me.

Now they are coming to me and saying pay taxes and give it to us. And do the same to your children. It's not just ridiculous, it's immoral. People need to pay for their own government. Giving the bills to us, their children, is pathetic. So no, it's not a valid "contract." Their contract was with themselves, not me.

Okay..so for the 10+ years I've been collecting paychecks and getting taxed for Medicare and Social Security...that's all going to be for nothing? Will I be getting my return check for that (quite large) investment? It's not just people retired "right now" it's a constantly running program, people are still paying money into it and still joining in on getting benefits.

You really don't know how this thing works. The money people are paying in goes straight into a current SS recipients pocket. Before 1972, it went into a fund that was invested and did earn some money for future recipients. Not now!!! There are now more people drawing from SS than paying into it, and it's only going to get worse!!!

 

[Contumacious]

Cut Medicare or Soc security? Can't. The public has been investing in those programs for YEARS and the voters will be pissed if you touch them (elderly people vote like crazy btw...)

So what do you do? Where do you cut? How exactly do you attain a surplus? It's not as easy as you think.

One step at the time.

But we must STOP adding to the deficit. We must NOT add 2 BBBBBillions dollars to the deficit.

DEfund Obama Hellcare.

.